# Recognizing Jerusalem as Israel's Capital; a Proud Moment **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 8, 2017, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854 "2017-12-08T00:17:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2017, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/81 "2017-12-10T00:47:15Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > Every time I open a GD thread about Israel, I think “Maybe this time someone will make a genuine argument for why X isn’t bad news for any hope of peace between Israelis and Palestinians.” > […] > But instead, what we get is always some variation of “The Palestinians will never make peace with us anyway, so we might as well…” I kinda ninjad you on that point, but also notice the predictable stage 2 now playing out: Israel should be able to do whatever it likes because Arabs are jerks, and then when the rest of the world is not won over with such logic, it’s because \*the rest of the world \*are jerks (Haley to the UN) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2017, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/82 "2017-12-10T04:06:46Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > A little Weird Al improves any thread! 🙂 Here’s hoping we won’t have a thread where “Christmas at Ground Zero” is relevant. ---
**Author:** ![Nansbread1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Nansbread1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nansbread1)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2017, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/83 "2017-12-10T12:16:37Z")
It now appears that all 3 previous presidents before Trump have indeed announced Jerusalem is the capital of Israel Trump has tweeted videos of them saying it in speeches. So who has egg on their faces now? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2017, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/84 "2017-12-10T14:08:44Z")
> [@Nansbread1](#): > > It now appears that all 3 previous presidents before Trump have indeed announced > > Jerusalem is the capital of Israel > > Trump has tweeted videos of them saying it in speeches. > > So who has egg on their faces now? Israel claims Jerusalem as it’s capital. So saying so in a speech is not wrong or a matter of the US position. It is a statement of fact. As usual Trump and his supporters miss the nuance here. Jerusalem is also claimed as the political capital of Palestine. As such the US has remained neutral on the topic recognizing it as a conflict issue that Israel and the Palestinians need to resolve. As a result the US does not have it’s embassy in Jerusalem which indicates we do not officially recognize Jerusalem as Israel’s capital. Trump is unilaterally changing that. He’s moving the embassy. That amounts to a giant “fuck you” to Palestinians. It means the US is taking a side and means a huge sticking point in peace negotiations is now even more difficult to resolve. So who has egg on their face again? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2017, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/85 "2017-12-10T19:11:13Z")
At least he didn’t call it the “undivided” capital of Israel. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2017, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/86 "2017-12-10T20:31:52Z")
That word is 4 syllables, I’d like to see him try. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2017, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/87 "2017-12-10T23:24:58Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Jerusalem is also claimed as the political capital of Palestine. As such the US has remained neutral on the topic recognizing it as a conflict issue that Israel and the Palestinians need to resolve. The two aren’t mutually exclusive. It’s possible in the future, Jerusalem could be both the capital of Israel and Palestine, if Palestine ever exists. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2017, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/88 "2017-12-10T23:54:20Z")
Just adding, but it seems to me that saying Jerusalem isn’t the capital of Israel is the same kind of idiocy as saying that Taiwan isn’t a country. Jerusalem is clearly Israel’s capital, and Taiwan is clearly an independent country. People just don’t want to say it because saying it posses off people who don’t want it to be true. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/89 "2017-12-11T03:41:56Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Just adding, but it seems to me that saying Jerusalem isn’t the capital of Israel is the same kind of idiocy as saying that Taiwan isn’t a country. Jerusalem is clearly Israel’s capital, and Taiwan is clearly an independent country. People just don’t want to say it because saying it posses off people who don’t want it to be true. Both are true. Look, as much as it pisses the terrorists off, those who refuse to agree that Israel exists and the world should not be rid of all Jewish people, it IS the capital. Taiwan \*is \*a nation. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/90 "2017-12-11T03:58:50Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Presumably the Israeli lobby have been trying to get the United States to do this for decades but every past President has refused. Why did Trump succumb? Should we see this as a sign that he is an unusually weak President who is unable to stand up to the pressures that past Presidents stood up to? I don’t know. I think he doesn’t really care what his career diplomats have to say. Or maybe he was doing what he always does and floats ideas and then pretends he wasn’t serious about the ones that draw a LOT of flack and go ahead with the ones that don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/91 "2017-12-11T04:00:16Z")
> [@Jacquernagy](#): > > My question is, I wonder how this will play with the alt-right? A huge part of their ideology is the idea that Israel manipulates America and that Zionism is a major force of evil in the world. How exactly can they square that with what seems like a blatantly pro-Zionist move by Trump? The Alt right is in a real tough spot stuck between their hatred of Muslims and their hatred of Jews. Its a real pickle. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/92 "2017-12-11T04:10:08Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Presumably the Israeli lobby have been trying to get the United States to do this for decades but every past President has refused. Why did Trump succumb? Should we see this as a sign that he is an unusually weak President who is unable to stand up to the pressures that past Presidents stood up to? Trying to distract us from Moore and the Russian investigation. Not to mention the fucking the American middle class is about to get with this “tax cut”. ---
**Author:** ![gatorslap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gatorslap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gatorslap)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/93 "2017-12-11T04:22:23Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Just adding, but it seems to me that saying Jerusalem isn’t the capital of Israel is the same kind of idiocy as saying that Taiwan isn’t a country. Jerusalem is clearly Israel’s capital, and Taiwan is clearly an independent country. People just don’t want to say it because saying it posses off people who don’t want it to be true. Yes, but there’s a meaningful difference between the facts on the ground and what the country officially recognizes. Russia controls Crimea, but we don’t recognize it as being legitimately Russian territory. That’s not just because we don’t want to piss off Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/94 "2017-12-11T04:58:30Z")
> [@gatorslap](#): > > Yes, but there’s a meaningful difference between the facts on the ground and what the country officially recognizes. Russia controls Crimea, but we don’t recognize it as being legitimately Russian territory. That’s not just because we don’t want to piss off Ukraine. But, with Jerusalem, for instance, it’s been Israel’s capital since Israel was founded. It’s been that way for 67 years now. You want to claim East Jerusalem isn’t Israeli, well, I still think you’re wrong, but at least you have an argument to make, but all the government buildings are in the western part of the city. And, for what it’s worth, Crimea is owned by Russia. The annexation was completely illegal, but pretending it’s not part of Russia is kind of dumb too. I’m not talking “legitimate” here. The U.S. could both say “Crimea is Russian territory.” and also say “And they should return it to Ukraine because the annexation violated international law.” ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/95 "2017-12-11T05:38:15Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > But, with Jerusalem, for instance, it’s been Israel’s capital since Israel was founded. Not quite. The State of Israel was founded on May 14, 1948. Jerusalem was declared the capital on December 13. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/96 "2017-12-11T05:39:16Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Not quite. The State of Israel was founded on May 14, 1948. Jerusalem was declared the capital on December 13. How about almost since Israel was founded? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/97 "2017-12-11T05:42:44Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Trying to distract us from Moore and the Russian investigation. Not to mention the fucking the American middle class is about to get with this “tax cut”. And let’s not forget North Korea - that other foreign crisis that Trump is bungling. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/98 "2017-12-11T05:49:14Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > How about almost since Israel was founded? You may want to read this page. > **[Corpus separatum (Jerusalem)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpus_separatum_(Jerusalem))** > > Corpus separatum (Latin for "separated body") was the internationalization proposal for Jerusalem and its surrounding area as part of the United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine. It was adopted by the United Nations General Assembly with a two-thirds majority in November 1947. According to the Partition Plan, the city of Jerusalem would be brought under international governance, conferring it a special status due to its shared importance for the Abrahamic religions. The legal base ("Statute... ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/99 "2017-12-11T05:54:09Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > You may want to read this page. > > [Corpus separatum (Jerusalem) - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpus_separatum_(Jerusalem)) I’m familiar, but in case you haven’t noted, what the UN wanted wasn’t what the UN got. But at this point, the only people who don’t recognize West Jerusalem as belonging to Israel are the Palestinians. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/100 "2017-12-11T07:40:16Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > I’m familiar, but in case you haven’t noted, what the UN wanted wasn’t what the UN got. But at this point, the only people who don’t recognize West Jerusalem as belonging to Israel are the Palestinians. So…Russia, China, and the EU and the Vatican are Palestinians? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854.md?page=6)