# Recognizing Jerusalem as Israel's Capital; a Proud Moment **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 8, 2017, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854 "2017-12-08T00:17:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/101 "2017-12-11T08:03:33Z")
The capital city of Israel is Jerusalem. That is a fact. The Israelis say so and they have every right to say where their capital is. For decades American presidents have been deferring the recognition, although as candidates they all sang another song. Trump is the only President who kept his campaign promise. As for harming the peace process and angering the Palestinians, what peace process? There is none and the Palestinians are always angry anyway. It’s not as if the US has lost some mythical status as a neutral arbiter. It was never neutral and rightly so. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/102 "2017-12-11T08:14:40Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > The capital city of Israel is Jerusalem. That is a fact. The Israelis say so and they have every right to say where their capital is. For decades American presidents have been deferring the recognition, although as candidates they all sang another song. Trump is the only President who kept his campaign promise. As for harming the peace process and angering the Palestinians, what peace process? There is none and the Palestinians are always angry anyway. It’s not as if the US has lost some mythical status as a neutral arbiter. It was never neutral and rightly so. As this is great debates, and I provided a cite that demonstrated that almost all of the world considers that claim to be in violation of international law, why don’t you provide cites for your baseless claims? Your argument only stands if one limits information to those which match a particular confirmation bias, and who dehumanizes the Palestinians as sub-human. ---
**Author:** ![Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_Arachnid_Laser_1)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/103 "2017-12-11T08:16:17Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > The capital city of Israel is Jerusalem. That is a fact. The Israelis say so and they have every right to say where their capital is. For decades American presidents have been deferring the recognition, although as candidates they all sang another song. Trump is the only President who kept his campaign promise. As for harming the peace process and angering the Palestinians, what peace process? There is none and the Palestinians are always angry anyway. It’s not as if the US has lost some mythical status as a neutral arbiter. It was never neutral and rightly so. I get this whole “fuck the peace process” attitude. What I don’t get is what’s supposed to be the alternative. Absolute totalitarian submission? Complete extermination? ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/104 "2017-12-11T09:57:26Z")
> [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser](#): > > I get this whole “fuck the peace process” attitude. What I don’t get is what’s supposed to be the alternative. Absolute totalitarian submission? Complete extermination? Yep, but not all in one go, that would be gauche. Just a _ **gentle** _ steamroll over all the filthy arabs. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/105 "2017-12-11T11:41:37Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > So…Russia, China, and the EU and the Vatican are Palestinians? Yes, they are. No, but China has said: > [@](#): > > Liu Jieyi said at a news conference that China’s future diplomatic efforts will focus on trying to move toward a negotiated solution based on the four proposals. > > - Advancing the two-state solution based on 1967 borders with East Jerusalem as the capital of a new Palestinian state. > > - Upholding “the concept of common, comprehensive, cooperative and sustainable security,” immediately ending Israeli settlement building, taking immediate measures to prevent violence against civilians, and calling for an early resumption of peace talks. > > - Coordinating international efforts to put forward “peace-promoting measures that entail joint participation at an early date.” > > - Promoting peace through development and cooperation between the Palestinians and Israel. > **[China rallies support for four-point Israeli-Palestinian peace plan](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2017-08-01/ty-article/china-rallies-support-for-four-point-israeli-palestinian-peace-plan/0000017f-e8ea-d62c-a1ff-fcfb802f0000)** > > \*\*\* Russia just said: > [@](#): > > “We reaffirm our commitment to the UN-approved principles for a Palestinian-Israeli settlement, which include the status of East Jerusalem as the capital of the future Palestinian state,” the ministry said. > “At the same time, we must state that in this context we view West Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.” [http://thehill.com/policy/international/327673-russia-recognizes-jerusalem-as-israeli-capital](http://thehill.com/policy/international/327673-russia-recognizes-jerusalem-as-israeli-capital) Europe has said: > [@](#): > > The EU expresses its commitment to ensure that - in line with international law - all agreements between the State of Israel and the EU must unequivocally and explicitly indicate their inapplicability to the territories occupied by Israel in 1967. Indicating they consider the border of Israel to be the 1967 border, which includes West Jerusalem. [http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2016/01/18/fac-conclusions-mepp](http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2016/01/18/fac-conclusions-mepp) The Vatican I have no idea about. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/106 "2017-12-11T18:15:59Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > The Vatican I have no idea about. They’ve suggested Jerusalem should be placed under international control. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/107 "2017-12-11T18:22:29Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > The capital city of Israel is Jerusalem. That is a fact. The Israelis say so and they have every right to say where their capital is. For decades American presidents have been deferring the recognition, although as candidates they all sang another song. Trump is the only President who kept his campaign promise. As for harming the peace process and angering the Palestinians, what peace process? There is none and the Palestinians are always angry anyway. It’s not as if the US has lost some mythical status as a neutral arbiter. It was never neutral and rightly so. Previous Presidents have all recognized that Israel has declared Jerusalem is its capital. None of them offered American recognition of the Israeli declaration. They were not in violation of American law by doing this. Congress called for American recognition but gave the President the legal right to override the Congressional direction. Previous Presidents used that legal override. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/108 "2017-12-11T18:33:11Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > As this is great debates, and I provided a cite that demonstrated that almost all of the world considers that claim to be in violation of international law, why don’t you provide cites for your baseless claims? > Your argument only stands if one limits information to those which match a particular confirmation bias, and who dehumanizes the Palestinians as sub-human. > **[Corpus separatum (Jerusalem)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpus_separatum_(Jerusalem))** > > Corpus separatum (Latin for "separated body") was the internationalization proposal for Jerusalem and its surrounding area as part of the United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine. It was adopted by the United Nations General Assembly with a two-thirds majority in November 1947. According to the Partition Plan, the city of Jerusalem would be brought under international governance, conferring it a special status due to its shared importance for the Abrahamic religions. The legal base ("Statute... No, the UN general assembly voted a plan in, in 1948, which has no bearing on todays world. And is widely considered a failure. Also "_As the UN has never revoked its resolutions 181 and 194, it maintains the official position that Jerusalem should be placed under a special international regime.[16] Nevertheless, Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon said on 28 October 2009 that Jerusalem must be the capital of both Israel and Palestine.[17]"_ But that is not a "violation of International Law’.:rolleyes: And certainly many racist nations want Isreal wiped off the map, but I see no reason to kowtow to them. I dont see where your odd persnal racist comment about “dehumanizes the Palestinians as sub-human” comes into play. The fact that Jerusalem is the capital of Isreal in no way “dehumanizes the Palestinians”. If the Palestinains want a nation of their own all they have to do is stopping bombing Isreali schoolbusses, accept Isreals right to exist, and stop with the anti-semitic attacks. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/109 "2017-12-11T19:06:23Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > The fact that Jerusalem is the capital of Isreal in no way “dehumanizes the Palestinians”. It’s really helpful that this board has someone who speaks for all Palestinians. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/110 "2017-12-11T19:52:27Z")
Tell me, just how with this hurs the \*people \*of Palestine? Not Abbas and his fellow terrorist cronies, but the normal person? ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/111 "2017-12-11T19:57:16Z")
Like tis: [Trump’s Jerusalem announcement: Interview with Mark Regev and Ghada Karmi – BBC Newsnight - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5juymXrh8KM) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/112 "2017-12-11T20:10:09Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Like tis: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5juymXrh8KM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5juymXrh8KM) Use your words. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/113 "2017-12-11T20:15:31Z")
No. That lady is more articulate than I am, that’s kind of the point of exchanges like that. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/114 "2017-12-11T20:15:46Z")
The \*best \*words. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/115 "2017-12-11T20:26:13Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > No. That lady is more articulate than I am, that’s kind of the point of exchanges like that. Ah Ghada Karmi. > **[Ghada Karmi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghada_Karmi)** > > Ghada Karmi (Arabic: غادة كرمي, Ghādah Karmi; born 1939) is a Palestinian-born academic, physician and author. She has written on Palestinian issues in newspapers and magazines, including The Guardian, The Nation and Journal of Palestine Studies. > Karmi was born in Jerusalem to a Muslim family. Her father, Hasan Sa'id Karmi was Palestinian while her mother was Syrian; she was the youngest child with an older brother and sister. In her 2002 autobiography, In Search of Fatima: A Palestinian Story... \* " Karmi also said that Israel does not deserve to continue as a state and that “We have no alternative but to act. The only way we can stop Israel is to act against it, against its interests, against its apartheid and policies".\* She also stated it is illegal, which it isnt. He only statement about how it\* might\* hurt the people of Palestine is that Isreal MIGHT then take over other holy sites. :rolleyes: So tell me, _just how this hurts the people of Palestine?_ ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/116 "2017-12-11T20:32:16Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > She also stated it is illegal, which it isnt. ] Fake news. Back to Wikipedia, the\* best\* Wikipedia \>\>\> > [@](#): > > On being captured by Israel in the 1967 Six-Day War, East Jerusalem, with expanded borders, came under direct Israeli rule.[7] East Jerusalem had been occupied by Israel in June 1967. On 27–28 June 1967, East Jerusalem was integrated into Jerusalem by extension of its municipal borders and was placed under the law, jurisdiction and administration of the State of Israel.[8][9] _In a unanimous General Assembly resolution, the UN declared the measures trying to change the status of the city invalid_ > **[East Jerusalem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Jerusalem)** > > East Jerusalem (Arabic: القدس الشرقية, al-Quds ash-Sharqiya; Hebrew: מִזְרַח יְרוּשָׁלַיִם, Mizraḥ Yerushalayim) is the sector of Jerusalem that was held by Jordan after the 1948 Arab–Israeli War, as opposed to the western sector of the city, West Jerusalem, which was held by Israel.\[a\] Under international law, East Jerusalem is considered a part of the West Bank and, therefore, of the Palestinian territories. A number of states recognize East Jerusalem as the capital of the State of Pales I’m not here to debate with you. I’m just glad you’re here to speak for the Palestinians. You seem to have a great command of your subject. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/117 "2017-12-11T20:35:00Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Fake news. > Back to Wikiperia, the best Wikipedia \>\>\> > > [East Jerusalem - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Jerusalem) > I’m not here to debate with you. I’m just glad you’re here to speak for the Palestinians. A UN General Aseembly resolution does not make things illegal or legal. It’s a _“resolution”_ which is pretty much meaningless. Dude, this is Great Debates. You\* are\* here to debate with me. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/118 "2017-12-11T20:40:38Z")
I’m here to debate with people I feel I want to debate with. Products of mainstream US media I’ve seen a thousand times over the decades. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/119 "2017-12-11T20:48:33Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > I’m here to debate with people I feel I want to debate with. Products of mainstream US media I’ve seen a thousand times over the decades. So, for “So tell me, just how this hurts the people of Palestine?”\* you got nothing? \* ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/120 "2017-12-11T20:51:00Z")
Educate yourself feller. There’s a whole world of balanced reporting it seems you’ve never seen. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854.md?page=7)