# Recognizing Jerusalem as Israel's Capital; a Proud Moment **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 8, 2017, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854 "2017-12-08T00:17:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/121 "2017-12-11T20:51:34Z")
It takes away the hope, illusion if you like, that there’s an honest broker out there with the power to limit their suffering. It takes away options to violent resistance. People are already getting killed because of it. Is that enough? Now for the other side: How does this \*really \*help the people of Israel? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/122 "2017-12-11T20:58:03Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > It takes away the hope, illusion if you like, that there’s an honest broker out there with the power to limit their suffering. It takes away options to violent resistance. People are already getting killed because of it. > > Is that enough? > > Now for the other side: How does this \*really \*help the people of Israel? Does anyone, anywhere really think Trump is, has been, or will be, a “honest broker”? Hows does it “takes away options to violent resistance”? Yes, Abbas cares, but why shoudl the People of palestine care about this? Yes, people are getting killed, due to violent racist and terrorist activities by fear mongers, bigots and terrorists. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/123 "2017-12-11T21:04:18Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Tell me, just how with this hurs the \*people \*of Palestine? Not Abbas and his fellow terrorist cronies, but the normal person? Tell me just how this helps the people of America? Not Trump and his fellow idiots, but the normal people? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/124 "2017-12-11T21:05:43Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Does anyone, anywhere really think Trump is, has been, or will be, a “honest broker”? No, but that used to be the US position, or at least claimed role, and that is no longer possible. > [@](#): > > Hows does it “takes away options to violent resistance”? It takes away (some of) their hope they can secure their rights any other way, since the US is now firmly taking a side against them. > [@](#): > > Yes, people are getting killed, due to violent racist and terrorist activities by fear mongers, bigots and terrorists. There are numerous cases elsewhere in the world of people doing those things engaging in a peace process that’s real and that includes their views, and of becoming stalwarts of peaceful democracy. People can learn and overcome the mistrust that leads them to act violently, but they first have to be shown trust and respect. What you’re describing are tactics, not people. That’s how the peace process works. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/125 "2017-12-11T21:07:31Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Educate yourself feller. There’s a whole world of balanced reporting it seems you’ve never seen. That’s enough. Dial it back and do not personalize arguments in this fashion. If you feel you must, the BBQ Pit is right around the corner. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/126 "2017-12-11T21:12:32Z")
Jesus. The clown car’s arrived. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/127 "2017-12-11T21:32:47Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Previous Presidents have all recognized that Israel has declared Jerusalem is its capital. None of them offered American recognition of the Israeli declaration. They were not in violation of American law by doing this. Congress called for American recognition but gave the President the legal right to override the Congressional direction. Previous Presidents used that legal override. This touches on my own problem with this, which I’m sure is different than anyone in this thread. I don’t actually have a major issue with the US recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. It’s kind of ridiculous to point to the ‘peace process’ and how this has supposedly hurt it when this has been dragging on for decades with no end in sight. Basically, there is no peace process, and there is no resolution on the verge of happening between Palestine and Israel. I admit, I don’t get the ‘Proud Moment’ part of the OP, as I’m unsure what there is to be proud of in this cluster fuck, but I also don’t have a major issue as I said. But what does the US get out of this? Trump is supposed to be this big wheeler-dealer and all (which it’s clear he isn’t). But I don’t see any upside for the US to make this change, only a benefit to Israel…who is already a major US ally and aren’t likely to change nor need any bones thrown their way by us to sweeten them towards the US. So…what’s the point except as a big middle finger? Of course, that IS the point, but Trump acts like he’s still in kindergarten instead of President of the US. Other than that, though, what does the US get out of this that’s worth the change? Nada as far as I can tell, just negatives. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/128 "2017-12-11T21:38:09Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Tell me just how this helps the people of America? Not Trump and his fellow idiots, but the normal people? Not really, why? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/129 "2017-12-11T21:43:58Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > No, but that used to be the US position, or at least claimed role, and that is no longer possible. > > It takes away (some of) their hope they can secure their rights any other way, since the US is now firmly taking a side against them. Sure it is, just not by Trump. No, not the USA- Trump. And how is that taking a side against them? How are they hurt by this? The violence is 100% caused by their own leaders and terrorists. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/130 "2017-12-11T21:48:42Z")
100%. No question. Absolutely. Who wants to debate? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/131 "2017-12-11T22:32:08Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > It’s really helpful that this board has someone who speaks for all Palestinians. You seem to think a professor in London who wants Israel to be eliminated speaks “for all Palestinians”. I’d be shocked if even 5% of all the people in the West Bank have even heard of her. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/132 "2017-12-11T22:41:21Z")
That’s a very confused post. Suggestion: follow the thread from post #110. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/133 "2017-12-11T22:44:12Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > You seem to think a professor in London who wants Israel to be eliminated speaks “for all Palestinians”. > > I’d be shocked if even 5% of all the people in the West Bank have even heard of her. I am pretty sure that **up\_the\_junction** was trying for sarcasm (or something possibly insulting), and meant me. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/134 "2017-12-11T22:51:45Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > That’s a very confused post. Suggestion: follow the thread from post #110. From when you did a drive-by link to a YouTube post then refused to embellish that with your own words or even those cut and pasted from the summary on YouTube? Then said that someone else had a confusing post and posting style? You sure you wanted people to start there? ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2017, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/135 "2017-12-11T23:14:42Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Other than that, though, what does the US get out of this that’s worth the change? Nada as far as I can tell, just negatives. The US gets nothing out of this. That’s an odd question to ask when we’re in the 11th month of a presidency that subsists by tossing out red meat to various factions of his base. There’s nothing eyebrow-raising about this except the notable absence of a fig leaf such as jobs, national security, or border control. It’s just Trump shoring up his street-cred with the Venn intersection of muscular-diplomacy interventionists and pro-Israel evangelicals. ---
**Author:** ![JBGUSA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/258eb7/32.png) [@JBGUSA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBGUSA)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2017, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/136 "2017-12-13T00:39:50Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Well, I’m sure the OP has some reason for thinking this was a proud moment. And I’m sure he’ll be by to tell us aaaaaany moment now. Same reason that Truman’s actions in integrating the armed forces and their housing, recognizing Israel and Hiroshima and Nagasaki were proud moments. He did what he thought was right, damn the torpedos. And I’ll add Trump’s withdrawal from Paris. As a human being he’s disgusting; but he makes decisions. ---
**Author:** ![JBGUSA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/258eb7/32.png) [@JBGUSA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBGUSA)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2017, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/137 "2017-12-13T00:43:49Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > The capital city of Israel is Jerusalem. That is a fact. The Israelis say so and they have every right to say where their capital is. For decades American presidents have been deferring the recognition, although as candidates they all sang another song. Trump is the only President who kept his campaign promise. As for harming the peace process and angering the Palestinians, what peace process? There is none and the Palestinians are always angry anyway. It’s not as if the US has lost some mythical status as a neutral arbiter. It was never neutral and rightly so. The Palestinian leadership wants victory, not peace. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2017, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/138 "2017-12-13T01:09:22Z")
> [@JBGUSA](#): > > The Palestinian leadership wants victory, not peace. And the leadership of the factions in Northern Ireland wanted victory, not peace, until the majority of the people decided that they were tired of watching their relatives die to no purpose and put a stop to it. Being the fifteen-year-old bully that steps in to help only one of a pair of twelve-year-olds fighting is not a good model for international relations. (Although with Trump, it is more like a six-year-old stepping into a fight between two four-year-olds.) ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2017, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/139 "2017-12-13T02:15:09Z")
> [@JBGUSA](#): > > Same reason that Truman’s actions in integrating the armed forces and their housing, recognizing Israel and Hiroshima and Nagasaki were proud moments. Dropping nuclear bombs isn’t a “proud moment.” It was something that had to be done to end the war, but I would stop far short of using any positive adjective to describe it. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2017, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854/140 "2017-12-13T02:38:49Z")
Sadly there’s already been a huge backlash that may result in people being killed and it’s not contained to just the occupied territories. [https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/3-people-arrested-in-fire-bomb-attack-on-swedish-synagogue/2017/12/10/15d4b466-dd8e-11e7-b2e9-8c636f076c76\_story.html](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/3-people-arrested-in-fire-bomb-attack-on-swedish-synagogue/2017/12/10/15d4b466-dd8e-11e7-b2e9-8c636f076c76_story.html) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recognizing-jerusalem-as-israels-capital-a-proud-moment/803854.md?page=8)