It takes away the hope, illusion if you like, that there’s an honest broker out there with the power to limit their suffering. It takes away options to violent resistance. People are already getting killed because of it.
Is that enough?
Now for the other side: How does this *really *help the people of Israel?
Does anyone, anywhere really think Trump is, has been, or will be, a “honest broker”?
Hows does it “takes away options to violent resistance”? Yes, Abbas cares, but why shoudl the People of palestine care about this?
Yes, people are getting killed, due to violent racist and terrorist activities by fear mongers, bigots and terrorists.
Tell me just how this helps the people of America? Not Trump and his fellow idiots, but the normal people?
No, but that used to be the US position, or at least claimed role, and that is no longer possible.
It takes away (some of) their hope they can secure their rights any other way, since the US is now firmly taking a side against them.
There are numerous cases elsewhere in the world of people doing those things engaging in a peace process that’s real and that includes their views, and of becoming stalwarts of peaceful democracy. People can learn and overcome the mistrust that leads them to act violently, but they first have to be shown trust and respect. What you’re describing are tactics, not people. That’s how the peace process works.
That’s enough. Dial it back and do not personalize arguments in this fashion. If you feel you must, the BBQ Pit is right around the corner.
[/moderating]
Jesus. The clown car’s arrived.
This touches on my own problem with this, which I’m sure is different than anyone in this thread. I don’t actually have a major issue with the US recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. It’s kind of ridiculous to point to the ‘peace process’ and how this has supposedly hurt it when this has been dragging on for decades with no end in sight. Basically, there is no peace process, and there is no resolution on the verge of happening between Palestine and Israel. I admit, I don’t get the ‘Proud Moment’ part of the OP, as I’m unsure what there is to be proud of in this cluster fuck, but I also don’t have a major issue as I said.
But what does the US get out of this? Trump is supposed to be this big wheeler-dealer and all (which it’s clear he isn’t). But I don’t see any upside for the US to make this change, only a benefit to Israel…who is already a major US ally and aren’t likely to change nor need any bones thrown their way by us to sweeten them towards the US. So…what’s the point except as a big middle finger? Of course, that IS the point, but Trump acts like he’s still in kindergarten instead of President of the US. Other than that, though, what does the US get out of this that’s worth the change? Nada as far as I can tell, just negatives.
Not really, why?
Sure it is, just not by Trump.
No, not the USA- Trump. And how is that taking a side against them? How are they hurt by this?
The violence is 100% caused by their own leaders and terrorists.
100%. No question. Absolutely. Who wants to debate?
You seem to think a professor in London who wants Israel to be eliminated speaks “for all Palestinians”.
I’d be shocked if even 5% of all the people in the West Bank have even heard of her.
That’s a very confused post. Suggestion: follow the thread from post #110.
I am pretty sure that up_the_junction was trying for sarcasm (or something possibly insulting), and meant me.
From when you did a drive-by link to a YouTube post then refused to embellish that with your own words or even those cut and pasted from the summary on YouTube? Then said that someone else had a confusing post and posting style? You sure you wanted people to start there?
The US gets nothing out of this. That’s an odd question to ask when we’re in the 11th month of a presidency that subsists by tossing out red meat to various factions of his base. There’s nothing eyebrow-raising about this except the notable absence of a fig leaf such as jobs, national security, or border control. It’s just Trump shoring up his street-cred with the Venn intersection of muscular-diplomacy interventionists and pro-Israel evangelicals.
Same reason that Truman’s actions in integrating the armed forces and their housing, recognizing Israel and Hiroshima and Nagasaki were proud moments. He did what he thought was right, damn the torpedos. And I’ll add Trump’s withdrawal from Paris. As a human being he’s disgusting; but he makes decisions.
The Palestinian leadership wants victory, not peace.
And the leadership of the factions in Northern Ireland wanted victory, not peace, until the majority of the people decided that they were tired of watching their relatives die to no purpose and put a stop to it. Being the fifteen-year-old bully that steps in to help only one of a pair of twelve-year-olds fighting is not a good model for international relations. (Although with Trump, it is more like a six-year-old stepping into a fight between two four-year-olds.)
Dropping nuclear bombs isn’t a “proud moment.” It was something that had to be done to end the war, but I would stop far short of using any positive adjective to describe it.
Sadly there’s already been a huge backlash that may result in people being killed and it’s not contained to just the occupied territories.