# Recommend a book or reference to learn proper comma usage **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 13, 2005, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-a-book-or-reference-to-learn-proper-comma-usage/299168 "2005-04-13T19:29:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-a-book-or-reference-to-learn-proper-comma-usage/299168/1 "2005-04-13T19:29:44Z")
I don’t know what it is, but I have a blockage when it comes to when it’s proper to use a comma. Can anyone recommend a good reference for comma usage? Even if it was part of a full grammer guide, that would be okay. Take for example the following sentences: 1 Usually, I like ham on my pizza, but not cheese. 2 Usually, I like ham on my pizza but not cheese. 3 Usually I like ham on my pizza, but not cheese. 4 Usually I like ham on my pizza but not cheese. Although the sentences read differently depending on the commas, I can’t tell that the meaning is any different. So when I’m writing a sentence like that, I usually put the commas in the place where it sounds right (for the pacing) rather than where it would be correct to place the commas. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-a-book-or-reference-to-learn-proper-comma-usage/299168/2 "2005-04-13T19:34:41Z")
Warriner’s is the guide I used. And when I was a writing tutor, commas were consistently the hardest thing to explain to native English speakers. (Proper use of articles was the hardest to explain to non-native speakers). So don’t feel bad about having trouble with them. In your example, I’d tell the student that the comma after “usually” is optional: in general, words that appear before the subject in an independent clause may be followed by a comma (and in some cases–e.g., the words are a long dependent clause–the comma is required). The comma only adds clarity in such cases; it does not change the sentence’s meaning. The comma after pizza is one I’d recommend against: it serves no purpose that I can see. However, if I squint I can see making a case for including it to clarify that you like ham on your pizza but not cheese on your pizza; otherwise a fool might conclude that you like ham on your pizza but not on your cheese. There are all kinds of comma rules, and in between students I’d read up on the rules so that I could better explain them. They’re pretty confusing. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![alphaFemale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecb155/32.png) [@alphaFemale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaFemale)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-a-book-or-reference-to-learn-proper-comma-usage/299168/3 "2005-04-13T19:34:47Z")
[eats shoots & leaves](http://eatsshootsandleaves.com/) ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-a-book-or-reference-to-learn-proper-comma-usage/299168/4 "2005-04-13T19:51:56Z")
_Woe is I: The Grammarphobe’s Guide to Better English in Plain English_ by Patricia O’Connor Unlike Eats, Shoots & Leaves, it deals exclusively with American usage. I believe there are some puctuation differences between British and American usage. Two nations separated by a common language and all that. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-a-book-or-reference-to-learn-proper-comma-usage/299168/5 "2005-04-13T19:57:48Z")
I second **Eats Shoots and Leaves** , but if you want a quick reference, Diana Hacker’s **A Writer’s Reference** 5th Edition, will fulfill all your needs. It’s my bible. I would be lost without it. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-a-book-or-reference-to-learn-proper-comma-usage/299168/6 "2005-04-13T20:01:43Z")
> [@alphaFemale](#): > > [eats shoots & leaves](http://eatsshootsandleaves.com/) [Lapsing Into A Comma](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0809225352/qid=1113422174/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/104-5083798-8508730?v=glance&s=books&n=507846) is also a good reference on practical usage of punctuation. I haven’t yet read his [The Elephants of Style](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0071422684/qid=1113422174/sr=8-2/ref=pd_ka_1/104-5083798-8508730?v=glance&s=books&n=507846). Strunk and White’s [The Elements of Style](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0205313426/qid=1113422315/sr=2-2/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_2/104-5083798-8508730) is, of course, the standard reference and is still quite appropriate in contemporary writing. Or, you can just do the kuul thang that i c the 7331 kidz doen theez daze and don’t bother with any punctuation, capitalization, and spelling. That’ll make you appear erudite. :rolleyes: Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Dancer\_Flight](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dancer_flight/32/7601_2.png) [@Dancer\_Flight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dancer_Flight)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-a-book-or-reference-to-learn-proper-comma-usage/299168/7 "2005-04-13T20:18:01Z")
I’ll second or third “Eats, Shoots and Leaves”, and second Strunk and White’s “Elements of Style”. The first is a tour through english punctutaion usage and history, the second is a concise guide to clear, correct writing. -DF ---
**Author:** ![Misnomer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misnomer/32/14897_2.png) [@Misnomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Misnomer)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-a-book-or-reference-to-learn-proper-comma-usage/299168/8 "2005-04-13T21:57:53Z")
I liked _Eats, Shoots & Leaves_, but it should be noted that many of the guidelines it contains are specific to British grammar and usage. For American style, I’d go with the aforementioned _Lapsing Into A Comma_ and/or good ol’ Strunk & White. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-a-book-or-reference-to-learn-proper-comma-usage/299168/9 "2005-04-14T00:49:57Z")
I’ve read unfortunate things about certain inaccuracies in _Eats, Shoots, and Leaves_, so I’ll recommend the highly authoritative _Little, Brown_. It’s got commas and everything else, and I swear by it. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2005, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-a-book-or-reference-to-learn-proper-comma-usage/299168/10 "2005-04-14T00:59:08Z")
**The New Well Tempered Sentence : A Punctuation Handbook for the Innocent, the Eager, and the Doomed** by Karen Elizabeth Gordon, who also wrote **The Deluxe Transitive Vampire**