Generally speaking the current crop of US small cars are based on tired, old platforms (Dodge Neon/PT Cruiser, Ford Focus) that have been in production for 10+ years. While this means less refinement and aesthetic appeal, and maybe slightly worse fuel economy, it also means that 1)Most reliability problems have already been solved at some point beforehand and 2) Car makers can afford to sell them very cheaply. I believe a 2006(they still have lots left) PT Cruiser could be had for somewhere around $9k. Personally I don’t see the point - you might as well buy a 1 or 2 year old higher end model, but if you’re competing solely on price, that’s the way to go. At this price point the differences between the variousmakes/models are fairly minor anyway.
Also, the Pontiac Solstice/Saturn Sky twins might be considered if you want to buy American, but the Miata is a better choice pretty much in every respect.
I’ll definitely be checking out the Mazda3. My first car was a used Mazda 626 that had to be retired after 12 years and over 250,000 miles. It was a *great *car. The Miata and the Mini Cooper are also very tempting. I’ll check the other cars mentioned, too. I think I’ll head down to Auto Row sometime this weekend.
I had to buy a new car this spring and really didn’t want to go deep into debt. After going through the consumer guides and a little shopping around, I wound up choosing between the new VW Rabbit(slightly used), the Mazda 3(used), the Honda Fit(new) the Toyota Yaris(new) and the Hyundai Accent(new).
The Rabbit had the most zip, but it was a stick, mind you. Nice car, lots of appealing features, not so great on gas mileage. The Mazda was very nice, but I didn’t want to buy a two year-old car for the same price as a new Fit, Yaris or Accent. I liked the Fit, but not the two dealers in my area, and not the price. It wasn’t available to me at anything like the base price listed in my consumer guides. I didn’t care for the Yaris much. It is very, very basic, and the Hyundai has the better warranty, so that’s what I wound up with. So far I like it pretty well. It has lousy pick up and is loud on the highway, and the stereo sucks, but it has a great warranty, a good safety rating(six airbags) and gets good gas mileage. It has lots of room to haul stuff, and people often tell me they think it’s really cute. Mine is apple green and easy to find in a parking lot!
Mazda is owned by Ford, and therefore, I consider it American.
For this reason I recommend against it, however. American cars are notoriously worse than Japanese ones in terms of reliability.
As to the OP, I suggest getting a copy of Consumer Reports for each year of car you’re looking at. From that I have learned to stay from Ford and GM products (with the exception of a very few models), never buy a Volkswagen, and trust Toyota, Honda, and (to a lesser extent) Nissan.
If I had the money right now, I’d be buying a Scion tC. It’s cute, fun to drive, and inexpensive. A more practical me would buy a Corolla or a Civic, but I don’t like the looks of the new models, personally. My girlfriend just got an Altima, which she loves, and it is a hell of a good car. Great gas mileage and surprisingly peppy. Based on that I think the Sentra would be a safe bet as well, and that’s a lot smaller.
I love it when someone with a breadth of knowledge in auto manufacturing shows up to voice their recommendations based on what they consider foreign or domestic. The Mazda3 has been built in Japan from day one, and they take several weeks to get here via oceanliner. I suppose that qualifies them as American, eh? About the only thing the Mazda3 uses from the Ford parts bin is the 2.3L Duratec engine block; everything else on the engine and around it is designed and engineered by Mazda in Japan. You want to talk about what’s American and what isn’t? Let’s talk about Toyota and Honda.
Toyota and Honda build the vast majority of their American breadwinners right here here in North America, many in the same manufacturing communities that GM and Ford have their factories in. Why? Because it’s cheaper! Apparently most Honda and Toyota owners are under the impression these two automotive giants still manufacture and then ship their cars over here from Japan. The fact is that most all of their American cars are as American as their domestic competition. The Corolla, Camry, Solara, RAV4, Highlander, Sienna, and even their Lexus RX are built right here in America and/or Canada. The Honda Civic, Accord, Element, and Pilot are also built right here in the good old Red White and Blue. I suppose that qualifies them all as “not American”, yeah?
And FWIW, the Sentra is a plasticky, noisy hunk of garbage (built in Mexico, BTW) that I would avoid at all costs. Nissan, to boot, has some of the highest body repair costs in the industry. Nissan has always built an above-average engine and wrapped it in a below-average car. Apparently none of the engineers at Nissan have been told that bumpers need to absorb impact. Take a look at their Altima in a low speed rear collision and compare to the Hyundai Sonata at top, and then consider the fact that the Sonata is built right here in state-of-the-art plant in Montgomery, Alabama. Maybe then we can talk about the vast superiority of Japanese engineering and manufacturing and all about how their vehicles are so much better because they aren’t American. :rolleyes:
Um, :rolleyes: yourself. From the Mazda Corporate Fact Sheet:
“Mazda also operates several U.S. facilities where its vehicles are built. All MAZDA 6 Sports Sedans, Sport Wagons, and 5-Doors are built at the AutoAlliance International facility in Flat Rock, Mich., a joint venture between Mazda Motor Corporation and Ford Motor Company. In addition, the Tribute model line is built in Kansas City, Mo., and all B-Series trucks are built at Mazda’s Twin Cities facilities in Minneapolis, Minn.”
Bravo, you found out the Mazda6 is built in Flat Rock and the Tribute is built in Kansas City. We’re talking about compact cars, and my the moral of the story is that the Corolla and Civic are American-built, as are the majority of Hondas and Toyotas. The point is that despite your interpretation of what is American and what is not, the Mazda3 is the only Japanese-built compact car. Nice attempt at trying to flip the argument on me though. What exactly did that cite have to do with anything I said about the Mazda3?
Actually, I was merely trying to point out the irony of your “I so love it when people who think they know about cars blah blah blah” condescension and how the Mazda is packed in tissue paper and wrapped in Japanese people to be sent over on ocean liners, or whatever.
I drive a Toyota Corolla, don’t give a damn about the Mazda 3, and don’t really care where it’s made as long as it’s made well. But, feel free to continue.
And so the argument begins to lose composure. I’m happy to continue. I nearly forgot to mention, so long as you’re on the topic of irony, that the praise you heap on your girlfriend’s American-built Altima doesn’t quite jive with your argument against American cars, does it? You managed to conveniently dodge that one, as well as my mention of how Nissan has some of the worst repair costs in the industry. You’ve gone from stating that anything American should be avoided to stating that you don’t care where it’s built so long as it’s built well. On top of it, you state that you don’t care at all about a car that’s won award after award for raising the bar in the compact segment, yet you recommend the Sentra, one of the absolute lousiest entries in the segment. Clearly you’re the expert here and I should step aside.
I’m sorry, but what? Are you maybe confusing me with another poster in this thread? Because I haven’t said any of that. And frankly I don’t have anything against American-built cars. But if I have said all this, feel free to correct me. …
Perhaps you should save your imaginary argument for someone who’s actually argued the things you are so clearly offended by.
I’d also recommend the Focus. Ford is finally starting to catch up to the Japanese in the reliability department. From what I hear from my Dad, a Focus reliability engineer, they’re also slowly (if painfully) improving. (Consider this my personal bias disclaimer).
I haven’t driven the new Focus very much, yet, but I can say it’s a huge improvement in every way over the old Aspire beater I drove when I was a teenager. Pretty decent handling and power.
I’d have to recommend the VW Golf TDi. I get fantastic mileage (I really do get 1000 km’s or more per tank) and the cost of diesel is always cheaper then gas. We also have a manual, so we get even better fuel economy.
It has a ton of power, it’s zippy, responds very well, and we’ve never had any problems since we bought it in 2004 and we have 115K km’s on it. We also get fantastic service from VW. It also has neat little features, like extra plug-in’s in the hatchback, and a spot for an emergency kit, and folding down the back seats is really easy.
The only con I can think of is that the service for a diesel is more expensive then the service for a gas vehicle.
Slightly. As much as I hate to continue on a tangent, my intent was to counter the suggestion by nevermore that the Mazda3 had any association with Ford of America simply because Mazda Motor Corporation is owned by Ford. Following my attempt to distinguish between what is American and what isn’t, you countered with an irrelevant cite about Mazda’s American-built vehicles. I confabulated nevermore’s anti-American statement with your irrelevant cite, and for that I apologize, but my point remains the same. This isn’t being offended, this is an attempt to counter the outdated perceptions about what’s built where and how that reflects on their perceived quality. To me, it’s about the same as saying you wouldn’t trust someone from the Middle East because that’s where terrorists come from. It’s an unfair and rather stupid stereotype. The simple fact is that most of the Japanese cars we buy here are built by Americans, so if you’re determined to not buy a domestic car, your choices are going to be quite limited. Most cars sold in North America are built in North America because it costs less. The boundaries of manufacturing are not black and white and all the manufacturers have been in bed with one another at some point over the years. As a result, consumer perceptions of quality should not be predicated on the geographic location of a company’s headquarters. The Mazda3 is rather unique because despite the fact that Mazda is owned by Ford, the 3 is a “global car” engineered on one platform with international sales in mind, rather than being regionalized for specific countries. If Mazda borrowed from anyone, it was Volvo; the C1 platform it’s built on was developed by Volvo using money from Ford. Since we all know Ford’s money is dirty American money, I guess the Mazda3 (despite being engineered by Japanese on a Swedish platform) is guilty by association, and therefore American, and should thusly be avoided!
I agree on the Golf as well. Like the Mazda3, it’s built overseas and has a higher standard of quality than compacts by Honda, Toyota, Nissan or Hyundai. I’d have gotten a Golf over the 3 but they are a few thousand more. It’s a heavier, stronger car, probably the most solid compact car money can buy (in America, anyway), but it’s also one of the priciest compacts money can buy. The OP never did say how much they were looking to spend, and I’m rather curious as that would help narrow the field of choices quite a bit …
Right. CR gives the Focus the #2 spot, behind the Fit, and the Focus is rated Ok in reliability.
The Golf is not viable, the Op lives in CA, where many diesels are not available. Not to mention out here diesel is more expensive than gas. Nor can I see the Golf is even available in the USA, neither CR nor Edmunds list it.
I don’t want to put words into EmAnJ’s mouth, but the cost of running on diesel is far less. Even if it costs more at the pump (I thought that was the norm?), the far greater fuel economy makes up for it. And gives you a warm glow about saving the icecaps, too.
Depending on which year she’s talking about, it is possible that substantially the same car can be had in the US under a different name, as VW sells different versions of their compact car under different nameplates (Gold, GTI, Rabbit) and I’m too tired to try and figure out which is which. You are probably right about the diesel though.
Gorilla’s right. European manufacturers are making diesels that return figures well in excess of any hybrid, and despite the fact that diesel’s not cheap, it costs less to travel a mile in a diesel engine, particularly at highway speeds. Hybrids do not fare as well in highway driving as they do in start/stop city driving due to the fact that there’s little difference between the fuel consumption of a regular vehicle and a hybrid at highway speeds. We don’t have diesels stateside right now, but I know for a fact that VW is debuting a 2.0L “clean diesel” in the 2008 Jetta, so I think it stands to reason they’ll also sell the same engine in the Rabbit (formerly Golf). Yes, they call it the Rabbit here in the states now too. I’m having a hard time adjusting to the name change myself. It’ll always be a Golf to me.
I really hope we get to see more European diesels here. The optimist in me hopes it would encourage other manufacturers to make hybrids more efficient and affordable, and that kind of competition in the car industry is a good thing.
Yes, that too, but I was actually saying it costs less at the pump too, for us, anyway. I guess I’m not up on fuel prices in the States.
ETA: Regular gas where we fill up is around 0.95 a litre, while diesel is 0.87 a litre right now. During the very high prices of this summer, gas went up to about $1.30/litre while diesel didn’t go above a dollar/litre.
