# Recommend me some dark old-timey music. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 4, 2004, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-dark-old-timey-music/227477 "2004-02-04T14:07:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![PookahMacPhellimey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pookahmacphellimey/32/3175_2.png) [@PookahMacPhellimey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PookahMacPhellimey)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-dark-old-timey-music/227477/1 "2004-02-04T14:07:31Z")
I’ve been looking for this for a good while now, but every CD that I buy turns out not what I wanted, though they have often been good in their own way. What I would love is some proper dark and traditional American ballads. A bit like “Caleb Meyer” on Gillian Welch’s album Hell Among the Yearlings. She wrote it but it is obviously inspired by traditional music. These should seemingly be available, but so far I haven’t managed find them. So, which bands/artists do traditional sounding dark ballads/instrumentals in the American old timey tradition? Claw hammer banjo/ fiddle type of instrumentation or a fuller band. Not too smoothly produced. Not alt-country. Not singer songerwriters, though I wouldn’t mind the odd orginal composition. I’m sure this has got to be obvious to someone. Thanks in advance. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-dark-old-timey-music/227477/2 "2004-02-04T14:16:39Z")
Johnny Cash perhaps? My first thought when I saw the title was (tho not TOO old-timey) “Some Velvet Morning” by Lee Hazelwood & Nancy Sinatra (a friend sent me the Lydia Lunch cover) and Nick Cave’s “Where the Wild Roses Grow” (which that friend put on the same tape). ---
**Author:** ![Labdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/439d5e/32.png) [@Labdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labdad)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-dark-old-timey-music/227477/3 "2004-02-04T14:31:14Z")
Have you looked into [Del McCoury](http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&uid=UIDMISS70402040912122144&sql=Bku9yxdybjols)? I’d recommend _I Wonder Where You Are Tonight_, _Blue Side of Town_, and _Deeper Shade of Blue_. Lots of “old-timey” ballads on those records. ---
**Author:** ![PookahMacPhellimey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pookahmacphellimey/32/3175_2.png) [@PookahMacPhellimey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PookahMacPhellimey)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-dark-old-timey-music/227477/4 "2004-02-04T14:32:16Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Johnny Cash perhaps? > > My first thought when I saw the title was (tho not TOO old-timey) “Some Velvet Morning” by Lee Hazelwood & Nancy Sinatra (a friend sent me the Lydia Lunch cover) and Nick Cave’s “Where the Wild Roses Grow” (which that friend put on the same tape). No not quite it. Even I have found out about Johnny Cash by now. 🙂 Have heard the “Where the Wild Roses Grow” as well, which is good, but not what I mean. Maybe I’m not explaining myself very well. What I mean is actually traditional music. I think the sort of stuff I’m after might be Appalachian. But I don’t know very much about it all and I’m hoping someone might get it from the description. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-dark-old-timey-music/227477/5 "2004-02-04T15:33:24Z")
Check out anything by the Louvin Brothers (the albums _Tragic Songs of Life_ and _Satan Is Real_). Can’t get much darker (though their singing is beautiful). The _Crumb_ soundtrack has lots of old blues with quite an edge, too, IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-dark-old-timey-music/227477/6 "2004-02-04T16:08:17Z")
> [@PookahMacPhellimey](#): > > Maybe I’m not explaining myself very well. What I mean is actually traditional music. I think the sort of stuff I’m after might be Appalachian. But I don’t know very much about it all and I’m hoping someone might get it from the description. Do you mean bluegrass? Lots of bluegrass songs tell sad stories, with oodles of despair and wailing. And trains. Though as a genre it does tend to be up-tempo more often than slow. Er, apologies if I’m telling you stuff you already know. Julie ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-dark-old-timey-music/227477/7 "2004-02-04T16:09:22Z")
You might take a look at this [collection](http://21st-century-home.com/music/music.pl/item-B000001Z3Y/search-AsinSearch/cd.htm). It sounds like it’s along the lines you want. I found it by searching for recordings of “Pretty Polly”, BTw. Even if you don’t like the performances on this collection, searching on some of the titles from it should turn up more. [slight hijack] Have you ever read any of Manly Wade Wellman’s “Silver John” stories? They’re sort of ghost/horror stories with an Appalachian folk singer as the protagonist. I’ve never heard recordings of the original songs in them, though. [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![dorkusmalorkusmafia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorkusmalorkusmafia/32/7266_2.png) [@dorkusmalorkusmafia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorkusmalorkusmafia)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-dark-old-timey-music/227477/8 "2004-02-04T16:27:03Z")
I can’t recommend The Be Good Tanyas enough. They are a modern band of women who sing in an older hillbillyish style. They are quite fabulous. Their first album, [Blue Horse,](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00005OAGD/qid=1075911892//ref=pd_ka_2/102-7561030-8999320?v=glance&s=music&n=507846) is a tiny bit lighter than their second album, [Chinatown.](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000089IYV/qid=1075911847//ref=pd_ka_1/102-7561030-8999320?v=glance&s=music&n=507846)They are a throwback band to old folk and bluegrass music. You can listen to some samples off the amazon links I supplied. I would suggest “Waiting around to die” and the “Junkie Song” from Chinatown and “Lakes of Pontchartrain” and “Rain and Snow” from Blue Horse. ---
**Author:** ![PookahMacPhellimey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pookahmacphellimey/32/3175_2.png) [@PookahMacPhellimey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PookahMacPhellimey)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-dark-old-timey-music/227477/9 "2004-02-04T16:50:47Z")
Thanks for all the suggestion so far. Some seem to be nearer what I was looking for than others, but I’m pretty sure I would actually enjoy all of these. Sadly this computer doesn’t have sound, so I can’t give any definite feedback right now, but will bankrupt myself as soon as possible. ☹ Labdad: Will check this guy out, hadn’t previously heard of him at all. ArchiveGuy: I’ve heard of the Louvin Brothers because The Jayhawks used to mention them as inspiration, but I have never actually heard them. Will try to make amends. Jsgoddess: I’ve been assured by a friend that “Bluegrass” and “Old Timey” are two different but related genres. I’m not sure I’m getting this right, so anyone feel free to correct me but I think Bluegrass is meant to be the more modern version with bands with guitars, drums, new songs etc, and Old Timey the more acoustic, strummin’ my banjo on the porch traditional kind of stuff. Dorkusmalorkusmafia:The Be Good Tanyas get bonus marks on featuring a Townes van Zandt song. I LOVE him! Balance: Those books sound interesting too. I presume you mentioning them entails you liking them? Are balads like Pretty Polly, House Carpenter etc. Appalachian then or I am I jumping to conclusions? ---
**Author:** ![moodtobestewed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3ab097/32.png) [@moodtobestewed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moodtobestewed)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-dark-old-timey-music/227477/10 "2004-02-04T17:11:52Z")
I can think of a number of songs that I think you’d like (Merle Travis’ “Dark as Dungeon” for one), but not entire albums, other than maybe Marty Robbins’ Gunfighter Ballads, which I don’t think is exactly what you’re looking for. But if you’re interested in dark and traditional _British_ ballads, look no further than [June Tabor’s Echo of Hooves](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000C3IDU/qid=1075913938//ref=pd_ka_1/104-4324475-9495131?v=glance&s=music&n=507846). ---
**Author:** ![dorkusmalorkusmafia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorkusmalorkusmafia/32/7266_2.png) [@dorkusmalorkusmafia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorkusmalorkusmafia)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-dark-old-timey-music/227477/11 "2004-02-04T17:55:51Z")
> [@](#): > > Jsgoddess: I’ve been assured by a friend that “Bluegrass” and “Old Timey” are two different but related genres. I’m not sure I’m getting this right, so anyone feel free to correct me but I think Bluegrass is meant to be the more modern version with bands with guitars, drums, new songs etc, and Old Timey the more acoustic, strummin’ my banjo on the porch traditional kind of stuff. Using this definition, The Be Good Tanyas are more of an Old Timey band. They perform new songs in an Old Timey style as well as traditional songs. Their rendition of Rain and Snow is perhaps the best one I have heard so far. Pentangle (a folk band from the 60’s I think) also has a good one. They are more pop sounding and often put in weird instrumentation into their songs like adding in Sitars and such. If you like that old timey folk sound, you will also probably like Doc Watson (more folk/bluegrass) or Leadbelly (folk/blues). ---
**Author:** ![CBCD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@CBCD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBCD)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-dark-old-timey-music/227477/12 "2004-02-04T18:21:08Z")
Gosh, as a former dulcimer maker, I thought you’d never ask **Jean Ritchie** - from Viper, Kentucky. Gillian Welch has based a lot of her singing on Jean Ritchie’s ‘mountain music’ style [http://www.jeanritchie.com/](http://www.jeanritchie.com/) **Doc Watson** > **[Home](https://merlefest.org)** > > April 28 - May 1, 2022 > \#MerleFest2022 MerleFest 2021 Survey MerleFest Food & Drink Survey > > Lineup > > The MerleFest 2022 lineup will be announced soon! Sign up for our newsletter and get the Take a look at the musicians playing at the annual Merlefest: > **[Home](https://merlefest.org)** > > April 28 - May 1, 2022 > \#MerleFest2022 MerleFest 2021 Survey MerleFest Food & Drink Survey > > Lineup > > The MerleFest 2022 lineup will be announced soon! Sign up for our newsletter and get the Sing Out! - longtime American traditional music magazine: > **[Sing Out!](https://singout.org/)** > > Home page for Sing Out!, a non-profit educational organization dedicated to the preservation and support of traditional and contemporary folk music from all over the world. Publisher/parent of Sing Out! magazine (since 1950), Rise Up Singing, The... An outstanding magazine on music of this sort is **No Depression** [http://www.nodepression.net/preview.html](http://www.nodepression.net/preview.html) Did you know that a recording of the excellent Sacred Harp music that was in the movie Cold Mountain will be released this spring? Music was done by T-Bone Burnett. Remember the scene in the church with with people sitting in an open square and singing? It was great music. Movie sucked. Let me know if you’d like more links & references. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-dark-old-timey-music/227477/13 "2004-02-04T18:45:34Z")
Are you looking for Appalachian murder ballads? Maybe you already have “Murder, Misery and then Goodnight” by Kristin Hersh. She covers some on it, incl. “Down in the Willow Grove,” which was used as the lullabye in “Raising Arizona.” ---
**Author:** ![davesink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cc9497/32.png) [@davesink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davesink)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-dark-old-timey-music/227477/14 "2004-02-04T21:21:51Z")
Definitely in the Bluegrass category, but an essential collection of early American music with lots of ballads and a good all round sampler would be [“Will the Circle be Unbroken”](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000063686/qid=1075929124/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/002-7314430-7844011). ---
**Author:** ![Hunter\_Hawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@Hunter\_Hawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hunter_Hawk)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-dark-old-timey-music/227477/15 "2004-02-04T21:24:46Z")
> [@Slithy Tove](#): > > Are you looking for Appalachian murder ballads? Maybe you already have “Murder, Misery and then Goodnight” by Kristin Hersh. Didn’t Tanya Donelly (the other Throwing Muse) also put out an album like this? ISTR her saying that when her kid was born, she recorded a lot of–ahem–lullabies that were actually old songs about murder and such. Also, you should check out the Alan Lomax Collection if you haven’t done so already. And you might want to give a listen to [KEXP](http://www.kexp.org) on Wednesday and Thursday evenings between 6 and 9 pm Pacific time–Wednesday is roots music, and Thursday is country. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-dark-old-timey-music/227477/16 "2004-02-04T21:36:10Z")
Yes! Yes! The Kristin Hersh is a wonderful contempo take on these kinds of songs…“contempo” as in “recorded during the last few years,” not as in “uses a drum machine.” A better definition of “bluegrass” would be “smokin,’ speeded-up, virtuoso Old Timey.” It was developed as a new style in the 1940s by Bill Monroe, Earl Scruggs, and others, much like Charlie Parker and Dizzy Gillespie were re-working older jazz styles into bebop up in New York. The instrumentation remained the same as the “old timey” bands…fiddle, guitar, mandolin, banjo, bass. There shouldn’t be no gol-durned drums in bluegrass; the string instruments provide all the rhythm and propulsive power necessary. For original takes on dark spooky back-country music, check out some collections of The Carter Family, Dock Boggs, Charlie Poole and the North Carolina Ramblers. Or you could just go to the Main Source since 1953: Harry Smith’s [Anthology of American Folk Music.](http://www.folkways.si.edu/harry/hatext.htm) ---
**Author:** ![YellowTail](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5ac83/32.png) [@YellowTail](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YellowTail)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-dark-old-timey-music/227477/17 "2004-02-04T21:39:13Z")
> [@PookahMacPhellimey](#): > > I think the sort of stuff I’m after might be Appalachian. But I don’t know very much about it all and I’m hoping someone might get it from the description. Doc Watson? Especially his early records before he started recording with his son, Merle. ---
**Author:** ![presidebt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c37758/32.png) [@presidebt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/presidebt)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-dark-old-timey-music/227477/18 "2004-02-04T21:59:48Z")
One of my favorite bands, Freakwater, has covered a lot of bluegrass, old timey and modern songs in the old timey style, especially on the earlier albums _Dancing Under Water, Old Paint, & Feels Like the Third Time_. Songs they’ve covered on those albums include: Rank Strangers Selfishness in Man Wild And Blue Annabelle Lee Dark As A Dungeon Put My Little Shoes Away Pale Horse Amelia Earhart Little Girl and the Dreadful Snake Little Black Train My One Desire Out Of This World **CBCD** ’s advice to look through _No Depression_ is sound advice, as is **davesink** ’s suggestion of picking up Nitty Gritty Dirt Band’s _Will the Circle Be Unbroken_, as many old timey and bluegrass greats play on this wonderful double album. Good luck. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-dark-old-timey-music/227477/19 "2004-02-04T22:55:48Z")
For some nice, mostly _a cappella_ versions of traditional Appalachian ballads (really old English ballads handed down), try [Ballads From Her Appalachian Family Tradition](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00008OM0D/104-0524683-3021560?v=glance&st=*) by Jean Ritchie. Some dark, sad, but strangely sweet stuff there. ---
**Author:** ![CBCD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@CBCD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CBCD)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2004, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-dark-old-timey-music/227477/20 "2004-02-04T23:03:00Z")
Appalachian murder ballads are the direct decendants of the English and Scottish songs known as the **Child Ballads** , named after the 19th century musicologist who wrote them down. These ballads traveled to America with the early British settlers of The Appalachians, and morphed into Appalachian versions. Some of the more famous Child Ballads are **Geordie, Barbara Allen, and Lord Randall.** Here is a link to some information about the Child Ballads: [http://www.contemplator.com/child/](http://www.contemplator.com/child/) The Child Ballads feature events such as \*\*abandoned lasses drowning their babes in the river by moonlight, furious husbands stabbing their wives, and beloved sons returning home to die in their mother’s arms. \*\* I love these songs! Here the lyrics to **The Cruel Mother**. This would not make a nice cradle song. She sat down below a thorn Fine flowers in the valley And there she has her sweet babe borne And the green leaves they grow rarely. Smile nae sae sweet, my bonnie babe Fine flowers in the valley An’ ye smile sae sweet, ye’ll smile me dead And the green leaves they grow rarely. She’s ta’en out her little penknife Fine flowers in the valley And twinned the sweet babe o’ its life And the green leaves they grow rarely. She howket a grave by the light o’ the moon Fine flowers in the valley And there she’s buried her sweet babe in And the green leaves they grow rarely. As she was going to the Church Fine flowers in the valley She saw a sweet babe in the porch And the green leaves they grow rarely . O sweet babe, an’ thou wert mine Fine flowers in the valley I wad cleed thee in silk so fine And the green leaves they grow rarely. O mother dear, when I was thine Fine flowers in the valley You did na prove to me sae kind And the green leaves they grow rarely. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-dark-old-timey-music/227477.md?page=2)