# Recommend me some hard science fiction **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 23, 2010, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-hard-science-fiction/561646 "2010-11-23T07:07:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f08c70/32.png) [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crowbar_of_Irony_3)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-hard-science-fiction/561646/1 "2010-11-23T07:07:24Z")
I have finished reading the Dresden’s Files series, and while waiting for _Ghost Story_ next year I need something to fill the gaps. So far most of the fictional stuff I have read are fantasy (Lord of the Rings, Drenai Saga and the like) and cosmic horror stuff (Lovecraft, The King in Yellow etc.) so I am looking for science fiction next. Preferably hard science fiction not based on any TV franchise (this rules out Star Trek and Star Wars). I am a sucker for good plots and description, no so much in the science part. So long pages just to describe the science or technology of the world(s) could leave me cold. So gimme your recommendations. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-hard-science-fiction/561646/2 "2010-11-23T07:16:59Z")
John Varley and Vernor Vinge for you! Also, John Scalzi. Avoid David Palmer’s _Tracking_, which is the sequel to _Emergence_. As far as I know, it’s only been published as a serial in Analog, but avoid it if it ever gets into print. I was very excited to hear about the sequel, but dear OG, the man needed an editor to go in and take out all the details of how his heroine adjusted this flap on her airplane, or tweaked that setting. It’s deadly dull for most readers, unless you’re a real airplane flying buff I guess. Fortunately, most SF that’s written today doesn’t contain the technical descriptions. You’re wise to avoid most of the franchise stuff, which is churned out to keep the fans satiated and the writers solvent. ---
**Author:** ![Reepicheep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@Reepicheep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reepicheep)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-hard-science-fiction/561646/3 "2010-11-23T07:33:18Z")
David Webber’s [Honor Harrington](http://www.amazon.com/Basilisk-Station-Honor-Harrington/dp/0743435710/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1290496667&sr=8-2), or [Dahak](http://www.amazon.com/Mutineers-Moon-Dahak-David-Weber/dp/0671720856/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_c) Elizabeth Moon’s Vetta’s War or [Herris Serrano](http://www.amazon.com/Hunting-Party-Elizabeth-Moon/dp/0671721763/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpi_6) ---
**Author:** ![Saltire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saltire/32/553_2.png) [@Saltire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saltire)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-hard-science-fiction/561646/4 "2010-11-23T08:05:49Z")
I really like a lot of James P. Hogan’s hard SF, though he started getting a little weird in the last decade. Check out Bug Park or Thrice Upon A Time. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-hard-science-fiction/561646/5 "2010-11-23T08:43:01Z")
> [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](#): > > I have finished reading the Dresden’s Files series, and while waiting for _Ghost Story_ next year I need something to fill the gaps. > > So far most of the fictional stuff I have read are fantasy (Lord of the Rings, Drenai Saga and the like) and cosmic horror stuff (Lovecraft, The King in Yellow etc.) so I am looking for science fiction next. Preferably hard science fiction not based on any TV franchise (this rules out Star Trek and Star Wars). > > I am a sucker for good plots and description, no so much in the science part. So long pages just to describe the science or technology of the world(s) could leave me cold. > > So gimme your recommendations. [Lois McMaster Bujold](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lois_McMaster_Bujold). She writes a SF series, and also 2 different fantasy series. Her books about a hyperactive little git named Miles Vorkosigan is SF, but it isn’t full of way too much science information as it is character driven and plot driven, not just mechano-science wanking like David Drake can be with his page after page of information on why this new design of a space ship is so spiffy. Not that I dislike Drake, I also read him but sometimes I am just in the mood for people instead of things in my fiction =) If you want something a bit different, [Harry Harrison](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Harrison) has some interesting stuff that is free on [feedbook.com](http://feedbook.com), public domain stuff from the 50s that appeared in stuff like astounding magazine, and there is a lot of short SF from the magazines that you can get through feedbook. If you want straight SF, go for the Deathworld series, if you want tongue in cheek humor go for the Stainless Steel Rat series. [Cory Doctorow](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cory_Doctorow) has an unusual approach to working, he gives all his books away for free. He writes very thoroughly tech-y SF, all very computer intensive. [Webscriptions.net](http://Webscriptions.net) is Baen Books ebook division, and they have a couple hundred ebooks in their free library. They have both SF and fantasy available. Just like with drugs, the first taste is free =) ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-hard-science-fiction/561646/6 "2010-11-23T08:48:16Z")
> [@Reepicheep](#): > > David Webber’s [Honor Harrington](http://www.amazon.com/Basilisk-Station-Honor-Harrington/dp/0743435710/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1290496667&sr=8-2), or [Dahak](http://www.amazon.com/Mutineers-Moon-Dahak-David-Weber/dp/0671720856/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_c) > > Elizabeth Moon’s Vetta’s War or [Herris Serrano](http://www.amazon.com/Hunting-Party-Elizabeth-Moon/dp/0671721763/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpi_6) Please no, Honor Harrington has way too many freaking pages of science infodump … nobody needs to know why the new pinnaces are way better than the old models in excruciating detail, nor how they set the poor beleagored ship that was leaking air from sprung seams as the valient repair crews struggled to free up the torpedos from the bent frame in engineering to cross the T of the enemy ship while they both hurtled towards the planetary protection network of space mines for 25 pages :eek: [that being said I actually own all the ebooks in the series, plus the assorted books of short stories and same universe fiction. I like the books. But then again, I happen to like hard infodump SF.] ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-hard-science-fiction/561646/7 "2010-11-23T12:21:49Z")
Well, the king of Hard science is Larry Niven. Check out his Ringworld novel. Not very long, but quite dense on the science aspects, but, most of all, for a hard science author, the plot and the characterization (maybe not of the characters themselves but at least of their species) are really good. If you’re a science geek, you should love it. And it’s a classic of SF (hey, he invented the Kilrathis!). ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-hard-science-fiction/561646/8 "2010-11-23T12:40:52Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > Well, the king of Hard science is Larry Niven. Check out his Ringworld novel. Not very long, but quite dense on the science aspects, but, most of all, for a hard science author, the plot and the characterization (maybe not of the characters themselves but at least of their species) are really good. > If you’re a science geek, you should love it. And it’s a classic of SF (hey, he invented the Kilrathis!). No, Larry Niven invented the Kzin. The folks at Origin Systems then stole the idea and renamed them the Kilrathi for their _Wing Commander_ games. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-hard-science-fiction/561646/9 "2010-11-23T12:47:38Z")
No mention of Hal Clement? Or Arthur C. Clarke, or Asimov, or _Heinlein_?? Jerry Pournelle, Frederick Pohl. Jules Verne (although he’s given to descriptions of the tech and previous explorers.) ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-hard-science-fiction/561646/10 "2010-11-23T12:49:40Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > No, Larry Niven invented the Kzin. The folks at Origin Systems then stole the idea and renamed them the Kilrathi for their _Wing Commander_ games. Lol I know, but if you havent read Ringworld you wouldnt know about the Kzins (which were a very intelligent take on the “Uber-Warrior Alien Race” trope), but there are good chances that you’d have heard of the Kilrathis even if you’ve never played Wing Commander. One of the things that I liked the most about Ringworld was the serious amount of thought on the different species, without ever looking like a roleplaying Alien Races compendium. They had soul and flesh, and a personality. Cant name that many SF books with that. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-hard-science-fiction/561646/11 "2010-11-23T14:42:09Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > Well, the king of Hard science is Larry Niven. Check out his Ringworld novel. Not very long, but quite dense on the science aspects, but, most of all, for a hard science author, the plot and the characterization (maybe not of the characters themselves but at least of their species) are really good. > If you’re a science geek, you should love it. And it’s a classic of SF (hey, he invented the Kilrathis!). Larry Niven is long on ideas but sometimes short on characterizations. _Ringworld_ has about twelve brilliant concepts but slightly shallow characters. However, Larry Niven does about half of his work in partnership with Jerry Pournelle, and that stuff really shines. Try _Lucifer’s Hammer_, the seminal meteor-strike\* story, _The Mote In God’s Eye_ for a nice take on alien life and a possible solution to Fermi’s Paradox, and _The Legacy of Heorot_ for a really great hard-biology colonization yarn. I saw Varley mentioned upthread. _Red Thunder_, if it were a movie, would be a summer popcorn flick, but with good science and good characters; lots of fun. If you want something darker, maybe _Steel Beach_, with good exploration of an AI in psychosis and a strangely gendered society. No discussion of hard SF is complete without Heinlein and Asimov. If I had to recommend just one novel from each, it’d have to be _The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress_ and _Foundation_. The former is a very good AI story wrapped in an interplanetary revolution, the latter is a far-future _Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire_, with the plucky heroes riding the waves caused by the fall of the Galactic Empire. One more good concept story: _Kiln People_ by David Brin. Brin explores a world in which people can make cheap temporary copies of themselves to do their daily work, and what a society that includes disposable people would look like. \*OK, so it’s a comet in that one, but still, it’s the definitive work for that little niche of the genre. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-hard-science-fiction/561646/12 "2010-11-23T15:02:05Z")
Another vote for Frederick Pohl, specifically [Gateway.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gateway_%28novel%29) ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-hard-science-fiction/561646/13 "2010-11-23T15:16:52Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > Well, the king of Hard science is Larry Niven. Check out his Ringworld novel. Not very long, but quite dense on the science aspects, but, most of all, for a hard science author, the plot and the characterization (maybe not of the characters themselves but at least of their species) are really good. > If you’re a science geek, you should love it. And it’s a classic of SF (hey, he invented the Kilrathis!). You know, I wanted to read up on Larry Niven – I’m finding he’s a good idea guy, but his writing is pretty boring, rambling, just generally bad. The characters tend to be really generic to the point where I really couldn’t make any sense of the _plot_ “The Integral Trees” although the _setting_ was interesting. Like many authors who tend to ramble, his best work is in short stories. he also co-authors with a lot of B-grade and worse co-authors, so its hard to tell where his badness ends and theirs starts. In the end, I’m not a fan. “Hominids” by Robert Sawyer was an enjoyable read even if it was not 100% on the science in certain aspects – however the second book in the series was mediocre, and the third book, an embarassment. “The Skinner” by Neil Asher “Holliconia Spring” by Brian Aldiss (and the sequels, “Helliconia Summer”/“Helliconia Winter”) Strange little books, but I like 'em. The middle book is very different from the other two. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-hard-science-fiction/561646/14 "2010-11-23T15:42:20Z")
I’m gonna go out on a limb here and recommend an author no one knows about: Richard K. Morgan. His Takeshi Kovacs novels are all excellent, each one better than it’s predecessor: _Altered Carbon Broken Angels Woken Furies_ and his novel _Black Man_ (published as _Thirteen_ in the US) is also excellent. A series I’ve been enjoying the hell out of is David Weber’s **Safehold** series. The first 3 books were all excellent (good story, great characters), but the 4th book was long on exposition and short on action. Hopefully he was setting up some cool shit for the next book; that’s how it read to me, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-hard-science-fiction/561646/15 "2010-11-23T15:53:03Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I’m gonna go out on a limb here and recommend an author no one knows about: Richard K. Morgan. > > His Takeshi Kovacs novels are all excellent, each one better than it’s predecessor: > > _Altered Carbon > Broken Angels > Woken Furies_ Oh yeah, that’s a good 'un. Charles Stross has his moments too. Try “Singularity Sky.” ---
**Author:** ![Dervorin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Dervorin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dervorin)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-hard-science-fiction/561646/16 "2010-11-23T23:38:41Z")
What, no love for Iain M. Banks? Start with “Consider Phlebas” and move on from there. I’m a big fan of both his writing and his imagination, although some books are clearly better than others. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-hard-science-fiction/561646/17 "2010-11-23T23:45:58Z")
Seconding both the recommendation for Clarke and the bewilderment at his lack of repeated (until now) mentioning in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-hard-science-fiction/561646/18 "2010-11-24T02:13:06Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > You know, I wanted to read up on Larry Niven – I’m finding he’s a good idea guy, but his writing is pretty boring, rambling, just generally bad. You’re one of THOSE people… well, you may be disappointed, because generally speaking, hard sci-fi is more about the ideas than the actual writing. Sure, some are good, but many aren’t the best writers. I’d recommend David Brin- his Uplift boloks are great, and generally excellent about the science - he has a PhD in space science and a MS in Applied Physics from from UC-San Diego, along with a BS in Astronomy from Cal Tech. Plus he’s a decent writer as well. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-hard-science-fiction/561646/19 "2010-11-24T02:27:42Z")
> [@bump](#): > > You’re one of THOSE people… well, you may be disappointed, because generally speaking, hard sci-fi is more about the ideas than the actual writing. Sure, some are good, but many aren’t the best writers. Gee whiz, you set me straight! I didn’t realize that putting out “hard” SF was just a license to be crappy! The OP asked for books with “good character and description” so why, other than pure cruelty, would you direct him otherwise? Unless your disdain for the genre is such that you believe that SF is definitionaly of low quality? How tragic for you, because it isn’t true at all. I’ll just curl up disappointedly with my Ken Macleod, Charles Stross, Cory Doctorow, Dan Simmons, Paul McAuley, Neal Asher, Brian Aldiss, Iain M. Banks, M. John Harrison, Kim Stanley Robinson, Stephen Baxter, and Richard K. Morgan, and cry myself to sleep. ---
**Author:** ![Brainiac4](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brainiac4/32/3534_2.png) [@Brainiac4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brainiac4)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-hard-science-fiction/561646/20 "2010-11-24T03:19:58Z")
Alastair Reynolds may be a good choice as well. I just read his House of Suns, which is set six million years in the future, with no FTL. Good stuff. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-hard-science-fiction/561646.md?page=2)