# Recommend me some space opera **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 28, 2013, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-space-opera/648581 "2013-01-28T02:49:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-space-opera/648581/61 "2013-01-29T04:28:34Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > Ayup. Then please help to fight **Elmer’s** and others’ ignorance. Give us the titles and authors of these “cramming kittens-and-puppies-singing-kumbaya liberal dreck down the reader’s throat” space-opera novels. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-space-opera/648581/62 "2013-01-29T04:35:11Z")
At least among the sci-fi fans I speak with, Ringo’s pretty well known for having gone full bore right wing crazy since 9-11. Although I liked the March series collaboration, despite right-wingisms like the Evil Environmentalists. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-space-opera/648581/63 "2013-01-29T04:39:39Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > Ayup. How would you know? Do you have access to my library card records? Just give me an example of a liberal SF writer who shoehorns political screeds into their fiction the way Ringo does. I’ll make a point to avoid them. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-space-opera/648581/64 "2013-01-29T05:06:56Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > How would you know? Do you have access to my library card records? Just give me an example of a liberal SF writer who shoehorns political screeds into their fiction the way Ringo does. I’ll make a point to avoid them. Oh, Harlan Ellison sometimes – but what have we heard from him lately? – and Spider Robinson sometimes, and he does it **very** well – but neither of them specializes in space opera. Outside of _Star Trek,_ I can’t think of a single space-opera series/author/universe with any kumbayah-liberal message – not even Asimov’s _Foundation_ series, and Asimov personally was pretty lefty. But no doubt **ExTank** will enlighten us, as is his Doperduty. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-space-opera/648581/65 "2013-01-29T05:19:18Z")
Most of the books I’d normally recommend for space opera have already been mentioned, but didn’t see any mention of the Lost Fleet series by Jack Campbell. It’s pretty good…loosely based on the story of Xenophon’s retreat, but set in space. I’ll second or third Weber’s Honor Harrington and Ringo’s Aldenata series, as well as Moon’s Trading series. I didn’t like them that much, but there is the Kris Longknife series that some folks seem to like as well. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-space-opera/648581/66 "2013-01-29T05:29:10Z")
I also like David Weber’s _In Fury Born_ and his Starfire collaborations. Preachy liberal sci-fi writers? They are thin on the ground these days, although Eric flint and A.C. Crispin come to mind as possible examples. You find a lot more far right wing ones though, often bordering on neo-Nazism especially with many Baen authors in recent years. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-space-opera/648581/67 "2013-01-29T06:03:25Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > You find a lot more far right wing ones though, often bordering on neo-Nazism especially with many Baen authors in recent years. Baen? Well, when I hear Baen I think [Jerry Pournelle,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Pournelle) and I wouldn’t call Pournelle a neo-Nazi. He is, in fact, that rarest of American political animals, a paleoconservative with a brain. (Or used to be – I recall hearing him at one SF convention calling for the U.S. to pull out of NATO, an entirely paleocon/isolationist idea – but that was pre-9/11, and post-9/11 he appears to have swung in a somewhat neocon direction. Which still is not neo-Nazi, at least not quite; too pro-Israel to be that.) BTW, you can find some awesome space opera in Baen’s _Imperial Stars_ and _There Will Be War_ anthology-series, all edited by Pournelle. “Neo-Nazi,” perhaps, in the limited sense of utterly glorifying military types, and in that sometimes sympathy for the Sauron Supermen shows through. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-space-opera/648581/68 "2013-01-29T14:00:06Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Baen? Well, when I hear Baen I think [Jerry Pournelle,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Pournelle) and I wouldn’t call Pournelle a neo-Nazi. He is, in fact, that rarest of American political animals, a paleoconservative with a brain. (Or used to be – I recall hearing him at one SF convention calling for the U.S. to pull out of NATO, an entirely paleocon/isolationist idea – but that was pre-9/11, and post-9/11 he appears to have swung in a somewhat neocon direction. Which still is not neo-Nazi, at least not quite; too pro-Israel to be that.) > > BTW, you can find some awesome space opera in Baen’s _Imperial Stars_ and _There Will Be War_ anthology-series, all edited by Pournelle. “Neo-Nazi,” perhaps, in the limited sense of utterly glorifying military types, and in that sometimes sympathy for the Sauron Supermen shows through. :rolleyes: It’s mind-boggling to me, sometimes, how some people will stretch the term “Nazi” to mean “any conservative with whom I disagree.” ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-space-opera/648581/69 "2013-01-29T14:52:11Z")
Oh, good. I was worried that I was going to have to endure a whole thread without a political argument. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-space-opera/648581/70 "2013-01-29T15:01:29Z")
Leaving the political horseshit behind, has anyone else read the Star Force series, by B. V. Larson ? I found it enjoyable if a bit far fetched…but good space opera. Also, there is the Star Carrier series (I don’t recall the author off the top of my head) and the Legion of the Damned…again, not series I personally loved (they were ok), but I know a lot of folks who do like them, so you could check them out as well. ---
**Author:** ![Reno\_Nevada](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Reno\_Nevada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reno_Nevada)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-space-opera/648581/71 "2013-01-29T15:23:42Z")
If nobody minds a hijack into a discussion of science fiction…I wanted to (hesitatingly) recommend the [Dread Empire’s Fall](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dread_Empire%27s_Fall) series by Walter Jon Williams. I hesitate slightly because while the first two books are great, the last is a major anti-climax, which is especially disappointing in space opera. I say especially disappointing because one of the marks of space opera to me is a full-throttle, hot-jets approach to plotting. Every page should be driving ahead. For that reason, I don’t really think some of the recommendations here are really space opera. Cordwainder Smith, while marvelous and definitely should be read more, does not really belong–his stories are more like poems than anything else. To my mind, \*Legion of Space \*is a space opera–\*Foundation \*is not. Too cerebral. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-space-opera/648581/72 "2013-01-29T16:42:00Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Oh, good. I was worried that I was going to have to endure a whole thread without a political argument. Well, you can thank the liberal **Fudd** for that. I recommended my picks without commentary. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-space-opera/648581/73 "2013-01-29T16:51:06Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > How would you know? Do you have access to my library card records? Just give me an example of a liberal SF writer who shoehorns political screeds into their fiction the way Ringo does. I’ll make a point to avoid them. Robert Sawyer’s _Hominid_ series of books fit that bill (as in, “shoehorns (liberal) political screeds”, not “the way Ringo does” as I haven’t read Ringo.) But they’re not space opera, of course. Read the _Dread Empire Falls_ books by WJW - not bad, but too much time spent on Martinez’s romantic life for my taste. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-space-opera/648581/74 "2013-01-29T18:13:52Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > Well, you can thank the liberal **Fudd** for that. I recommended my picks without commentary. I wasn’t engaging in political commentary. My objection was to Ringo’s ham-fisted injection of ideology into his novels. It would be just as bad if a liberal did it and you still haven’t satisfied my curiosity on that count; you have merely made uninformed comments about my reading habits and political affiliations. To everybody else, I apologize for the hijack, and request some guidance as to whether it’s okay to refute what we consider to be bad recommendations in threads like this. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-space-opera/648581/75 "2013-01-29T19:05:38Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > “Neo-Nazi,” perhaps, in the limited sense of utterly glorifying military types, and in that sometimes sympathy for the Sauron Supermen shows through. No; I was thinking neo-Nazi as in glorifying genocide & mass slaughter, tyranny, and actual Nazis. Ringo’s later books have former members of the Nazi SS as heroes I understand, for example. Or to quote a review from Amazon about _Troy Rising_: > [@](#): > > In other highlights (SPOILERS AHEAD), our protagonist (with I’m sure what the author thinks of as admirable common sense) says that an alien-sent plague that kills off the elderly, the sick, the stupid, those without access to health care, and a bunch of brown people (most notably those crazy Muslim zealots out there) is actually a net good for humanity since it makes us stronger as a species (Where have I heard something like that before?). In a startling bit of sexism, this plague also makes blonde women go into heat (like dogs) fairly often. There’s a subset of Baen authors these days that is all about how killing brown people, Muslims and liberals (often entire worlds of them) are good things. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-space-opera/648581/76 "2013-01-29T20:03:17Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] No; I was thinking neo-Nazi as in glorifying genocide & mass slaughter, tyranny, and actual Nazis. Ringo’s later books have former members of the Nazi SS as heroes I understand, for example. Or to quote a review from Amazon about Troy Rising: [/QUOTE] You’d actually have to read the book (I assume you mean Watch on the Rhine)…it wasn’t actually about glorifying the SS, but instead rehabilitating them from the horrible things they did in the past. As for the review on Troy Rising, I’d take that (pretty obviously skewed ‘review’ )with a grain of salt. That’s not what the book was about, and while there are certainly some conservative themes in it (more so than his Aldenata series, which Watch on the Rhine comes from), it’s by no means neo-Nazi or what your quote there implies. The plague was one of a series of vicious attacks against humanity, not something the people of earth (or the protagonists) WANTED to happen. Regardless, if you don’t like Ringo then that’s fine. Why continue to hijack this thread with all of this partisan political horseshit? A poster likes the books and recommended them…either recommend others or just say you don’t like them and leave it at that. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-space-opera/648581/77 "2013-01-29T20:33:07Z")
> [@XT](#): > > You’d actually have to read the book (I assume you mean Watch on the Rhine)…it wasn’t actually about glorifying the SS, but instead rehabilitating them from the horrible things they did in the past. And still preserving the SS as an organization? What’s the point of the SS without its antisemitism, etc? ---
**Author:** ![drillrod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@drillrod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drillrod)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-space-opera/648581/78 "2013-01-29T20:33:08Z")
How about the [Deathstalker](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deathstalker_(series)) series by Simon R. Green? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-space-opera/648581/79 "2013-01-29T20:48:00Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > I take **Brain Glutton’s** comment on the style - even reading them in the 70s, the social setting was very dated - barely into the 50s, if that. But, it really fits the OP’s specs. > > The Lensmen (note - always Lensmen, with one exception; the books make it clear that women just aren’t up to the challenge of wearing a Lens, poor little things. As I said, barely into the 50s…) are flying all over the two galaxies (yes, two galaxies; one wasn’t enough for Smith’s vision). In fact, in one of the books, Kinnison is in the asteroid belt around Sol and is leaving for Earth. He comments that it’s weird to be taking such a short trip that you can actually see your destination with the naked eye before you leave. That should give you an idea of the scale of the series. > I started with Triplanetary, and I didn’t think it gave away the game, any more than the opening scenes on Trantor did for Asimov’s Foundation series - both set the canvas for the whole series. Plus, in each of the succeeding books, Smith has a summary right at the start, so it’s pretty hard to avoid reading the outline. I second Smith. I read the Lensmen books in high school but reread them a few years ago, and they hold up rather well - considering that Smith started writing almost 100 years ago. In fact I just read the Starmont treatise on Smith, where it was pointed out that he was about the first writer whose characters thought scientifically, and where the scientist (in the Skylark books) was the lead instead of the weird secondary character. Smith was a chemist, so really knew his stuff. Triplanetary started as a book not connected to the Lensmen series and got revised and added later. The series started with Grey Lensmen. First Lensmen was written after just for the series also. And it appears that Smith had the whole series in mind when he started. The Skylark Series (Skylark of Space, Skylark Three, Skylark of Valeron and Skylark Duquene) are definitely space opera, but don’t stand up as well as the Lensmen series. Hamilton was mentioned already, but check out some John Campbell stuff before he became editor of Astounding. (I have no idea if any of this stuff is in print anymore.) The Poul Anderson books mentioned are good examples also. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-space-opera/648581/80 "2013-01-29T20:52:17Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Making my way through Stephen Baxter as we speak (just read Moonseed, now going to start Time Ships in the near future.) Greg Bear never did much for me, nor has Egan (though I’ll probably throw them in the stack in my next visit to Half-Priced Books.) I’ve also tackled Chalker’s _Well of Souls_ books, making it through 4-5 of them before boredom set in. If you want good space opera from Baxter, go with _Ring_ and others in that series. _Moonseed_ and _Time Ships_ are good, but not really space opera. (No more than \*Voyage \*or _Titan_ is.) He has plenty of books which qualify. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-space-opera/648581.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-space-opera/648581.md?page=5)