# Recommend me some utopian and dystopian fiction **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 11, 2010, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-utopian-and-dystopian-fiction/556769 "2010-10-11T08:40:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BleizDu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@BleizDu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BleizDu)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-utopian-and-dystopian-fiction/556769/21 "2010-10-12T20:04:57Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > \*The Dispossessed: An Ambiguous Utopia \* by Ursula K. Le Guin is an interesting account of what a functioning anarchist society might look like. I was coming to recommend this one. It’s one of these books I got more and more out of the text as I got older. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2010, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-utopian-and-dystopian-fiction/556769/22 "2010-10-12T20:25:58Z")
In R A Lafferty’s _Past Master_, the story begins on Golden Astrobe, a rich world settled by Earth humans in which the perfect society has been created. But things have gone horribly wrong. The powerful men who secretly rule the planet decide a figurehead president might heal the sick society. So they send an agent back in space & time to recruit Sir Thomas More. Who, of course, wrote _Utopia_. Sir Thomas is “cut” from his lifeline not long before his execution & travels to Astrobe. His effect on the society & the society’s effects on him makes for quite an interesting tale. (It was nominated for the 1968 Nebula & the 1969 Hugo but won neither award.) If you have never encountered R A Lafferty before, I envy you! ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-utopian-and-dystopian-fiction/556769/23 "2010-10-13T02:06:23Z")
> [@BleizDu](#): > > > [@Colibri](#): > > > > \*The Dispossessed: An Ambiguous Utopia \* by Ursula K. Le Guin is an interesting account of what a functioning anarchist society might look like. > > I was coming to recommend this one. It’s one of these books I got more and more out of the text as I got older. I’ll third this one; it’s really nice that it recognizes its utopia is pretty problematic. Le Guin has a strong anthropological streak to her writing (dad was a famous anthropologist), and it comes through in a lot of her work, but none more strongly than _Always Coming Home_, a set of anthropological notes describing an historical society that existed in Northern California some 200,000 years in the future. Weirdly-written novel in format, but pretty fun to read. Some feminist utopias: _The Kin of Ata Are Waiting For You_ describes a rapist waking up in a feminist society of dreamers. Pretty new-agey. _Egalia’s Daughters_ is more of a utopia, a satirical novel about a guy who lives in a woman-dominated society, gradually has a gender awakening, and writes a satirical novel about what it’d be like to be a woman living in a male-dominated society. I remember it being pretty clever. _The Fifth Sacred Thing_ is a decidedly neopagan utopia that heavily pushes the value of pacifism in the face of violence. _Woman on the Edge of Time_ has a woman trapped in a mental institution shifting back and forth between her hellish life and a possibly hallucinated gender utopia. Frankly I think dystopias are a lot more fun to read. William Gibson’s **Neuromancer** trilogy are widely described as dystopian, although Gibson insists they’re more-or-less reality for most of the world, and that it’s privileged Americans who are living in a utopia. Phillip K. Dick wrote a buttload of dystopias. And you can’t get a world much bleaker than Cormac McCarthy’s _The Road_. ---
**Author:** ![lisacurl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/41988e/32.png) [@lisacurl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisacurl)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-utopian-and-dystopian-fiction/556769/24 "2010-10-13T03:29:43Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > _The Fifth Sacred Thing_ is a decidedly neopagan utopia that heavily pushes the value of pacifism in the face of violence. > _Woman on the Edge of Time_ has a woman trapped in a mental institution shifting back and forth between her hellish life and a possibly hallucinated gender utopia. Marge Piercy, author of Woman on the Edge of Time, has another dystopian novel that I have always enjoyed: He, She, and It. [He, She and It - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/He,_She_and_It) World War Z by Max Brooks Never Let Me Go by Ichiguro - the movie of this is being released soon. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-utopian-and-dystopian-fiction/556769/25 "2010-10-13T04:20:00Z")
> [@koeeoaddi](#): > > > [@Sitnam](#): > > > > For utopian I’d recommend the often overlooked [Walden Two](http://www.amazon.com/Walden-Two-Trade-Book-Skinner/dp/002411510X) > > It’s been a donkey’s age since I read it, but I remember _Walden Two_ as dystopian, or at the very least, no way would I want to live there. That’s why I really like it. You’re right, I wouldn’t want to live there either, but to this day I’m not sure if it’s because Skinner is wrong or because I’ve been brought up to believe his vision is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Apocalypso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Apocalypso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apocalypso)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-utopian-and-dystopian-fiction/556769/26 "2010-10-13T04:57:42Z")
Thirding “This Perfect Day” and seconding “Farenheit 451”. If you liked 1984 I’d also highly recommend “Animal Farm” if you haven’t read it yet. Dystopian: [White Noise](http://www.amazon.com/White-Noise-Contemporary-American-Fiction/dp/0140077022) [A Canticle For Leibowitz](http://www.amazon.com/Canticle-Leibowitz-Walter-Miller-Jr/dp/0060892994/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1286944654&sr=1-1) [Brave New World](http://www.amazon.com/Brave-New-World-ebook/dp/B000FA5R5S/ref=pd_ts_b_25?ie=UTF8&s=books) If you’re interested in a movie similar to 1984, check out [Brazil](http://www.amazon.com/Brazil-Criterion-Collection-3-Disc-Boxed/dp/B000G8NXZK/ref=sr_1_2?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1286945684&sr=1-2), a Terry Gilliam movie with very similar themes. One of my favorite movies of all time. The directors cut is a must have, the theatrical version is a completely different movie (and nowhere near as good). Utopian: [The Truth Machine](http://www.amazon.com/Truth-Machine-James-Halperin/dp/0345412885/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1286944730&sr=1-1) [Stranger in a Strange Land](http://www.amazon.com/Stranger-Strange-Land-Robert-Heinlein/dp/0441788386/ref=pd_mw_b_84?ie=UTF8&s=books) (really surprised no one’s mentioned this yet. It’s a classic.) ---
**Author:** ![BleizDu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@BleizDu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BleizDu)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-utopian-and-dystopian-fiction/556769/27 "2010-10-13T10:07:23Z")
Oh some more dystopian stuff (short stories, I don’t remember if there are utopian stories in it): “The needle on full - lesbian feminist science fiction” Caroline Forbes stories centered about women, sometimes only talking about women, and often lesbians. Read it a handful of years ago, loved it. I photocopied the story that gave its name to the book. It talks about a society with oil shortage. the one amazon review says: "This is a collection of nine short stories “from a lesbian feminist perspective.” Written in the late seventies and early eighties, some of the stories carry an imprint of the fears and politics of that time, making them seem a little out of date. Others are surprisingly apropos. The writing is strong and of good quality. " ---
**Author:** ![Pitchmeister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pitchmeister/32/3459_2.png) [@Pitchmeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pitchmeister)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-utopian-and-dystopian-fiction/556769/28 "2010-10-13T10:18:07Z")
Another vote for [“The Handmaid’s Tale” by Margaret Atwood](http://www.amazon.com/Handmaids-Tale-Margaret-Atwood/dp/038549081X/ref=tmm_pap_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1286964956&sr=8-1), a story about a crazy fundamentalist Christian society that (very minor spoiler) uses a certain class of women as breeding machines for party officials and disposes of them when they’ve become infertile. Very powerful and extremely disturbing! ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-utopian-and-dystopian-fiction/556769/29 "2010-10-13T11:02:58Z")
_[Mockingbird](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mockingbird_(1980_novel))_ by Walter Tevis (author of _The Hustler_, _The Man Who Fell to Earth_ and _The Color of Money_) is one of the great SF novels but seems to be little known. As a non-SF fan I enjoyed it as literature. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-utopian-and-dystopian-fiction/556769/30 "2010-10-13T11:27:54Z")
Snow Crash, by Neal Stephenson, has one of the most imaginative dystopian societies I’ve ever seen. ---
**Author:** ![belladonna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9fc29f/32.png) [@belladonna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/belladonna)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2010, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-utopian-and-dystopian-fiction/556769/31 "2010-10-13T12:39:06Z")
> [@Karen\_Lingel](#): > > _Oryx and Crake_, by Margaret Atwood > …The first is a future controlled by corporations. This is an excellent book–there is a new one too called _The Year of the Flood_ that takes a look at all the characters in the year leading up to the events of _Oryx and Crake_. I actually liked that one even better. Another one I loved was called \*Shades of Grey \*by Jasper Fforde. It is about a world from which the ability to see true color has been drained, and the status of people rests on the color they are able to see. Hard to explain, but incredibly interesting, unusual, and well-written. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-utopian-and-dystopian-fiction/556769/32 "2010-10-14T00:16:58Z")
One author I’ve rather enjoyed who seems to specialize in dystopian worlds is [Richard Morgan](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Morgan_%28author%29). While I haven’t found his recent foray into fantasy as gripping, his science fiction novels have all been good reads, and while sharing a dark and dystopian outlook cover a range of other SF sub-genres: [ul] [li]Altered Carbon - quasi-cyberpunk gumshoe noir dystopia.[/li][li]Broken Angels - military science fiction dystopia.[/li][li]Woken Furies - Action / thriller dystopia.[/li][li]Market Forces - near future corporate dystopia, and IMHO the bleakest of the lot. (And my favourite of the five).[/li][li]Black Man (US title: Thirteen) - near future genetic engineering dystopia.[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-utopian-and-dystopian-fiction/556769/33 "2010-10-14T13:35:41Z")
One of my favorites, if you can get hold of it is “With Folded Hands” (a novelette about a nanny-state distopia; still great despite being obviously written in the late 40s). ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-utopian-and-dystopian-fiction/556769/34 "2010-10-14T13:44:15Z")
You might also like _War Day_ by Whitley Strieber and James Kunetka, a travelogue about the aftermath of a limited nuclear war between the U.S. and the Soviets; _The Last Ship_ by William Brinkley, about the sole surviving U.S. Navy warship after a fullscale WWIII and the new society its crew struggles to create; and, of course, the classic _On the Beach_ by Nevil Shute, about the slow dwindling of humanity as postwar radiation covers the globe. All very different; all very good. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-utopian-and-dystopian-fiction/556769/35 "2010-10-14T17:16:22Z")
The Day World series by Phillip Jose’ Farmer. Truly excellent. ---
**Author:** ![filling\_pages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9bd4f/32.png) [@filling\_pages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filling_pages)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-utopian-and-dystopian-fiction/556769/36 "2010-10-14T17:38:19Z")
I read almost nothing but dystopian fiction for more than two years, as a sort of thought experiment. I blogged about every one of them, too, [right here](http://epicdystopia.blogspot.com/). I’ve kept up on the reading, but not the blogging - I should start doing that again. Anyway, I want to add my vote to **We**. It’s my favorite of that style of classic, Soviet-inspired dytopia. In style (at least in the translation I have), it’s almost romantic. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-utopian-and-dystopian-fiction/556769/37 "2010-10-14T18:45:42Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Kim Stanley Robinson’s [Pacific Coast trilogy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Californias_Trilogy) is his more interesting take on the subject. Each book is thematically related rather than with standard plot and characters, because each explores a different aspect of the utopian/dystopian balance. The _Pacific Edge_ volume is the most convincing utopia I’ve ever read. A much less radical vision than _Ecotopia,_ but plenty radical in its own way. It is set in America after a Green revolution – presumably nonviolent, though details are not given. The economy is mostly private, but business enterprises are not allowed to grow beyond the size where it is possible for every employee/manager to know every other personally; if so, the state intervenes and breaks it up trustbuster style. Everyone is guaranteed an annual income of $10,000 and nobody is allowed to have more than $100,000 – this still leaves plenty of room for ambition and achievement, since “everybody wants to be a Hundred.” Could work, just maybe . . . > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I took a course on utopias in college. At the end we voted for our favorite. We overwhelmingly voted for _Walden II_, which disconcerted the professor, who preferred _Plato’s Republic_, which disconcerted us since we all saw that as a horror show. As Bertrand Russel wrote in _A History of Western Philosophy,_ Chapter XIV, “Plato’s Utopia”: > [@](#): > > . . . Although all the rulers are to be philosophers, there are to be no innovations; a philosopher is to be, for all time, a man who understands and agrees with Plato. > > When we ask: what will Plato’s Republic achieve? The answer is rather humdrum. It will achieve success in wars against roughly equal populations, and it will secure a livelihood for a certain small number of people. It will almost certainly produce no art or science, because of its rigidity; in this respect, as in others, it will be like Sparta. In spite of all the fine talk, skill in war and enough to eat is all that will be achieved. Plato had lived through famine and defeat in Athens; perhaps, subconsciously, he thought the avoidance of these evils the best that statesmanship could accomplish. > > \ > > Plato’s Republic, unlike modern Utopias, was perhaps intended to be actually founded. This was not so fantastic or impossible as it might naturally seem to us. Many of its provisions, including some that we should have thought quite impracticable, were actually realized at Sparta. The rule of philosophers had been attempted by Pythagoras, and in Plato’s time Archytas the Pythagorean was politically influential in Taras (modern Taranto) when Plato visited Sicily and southern Italy. It was common practice for cities to employ a sage to draw up their laws; Solon had done this for Athens, and Protagoras for Thurii. Colonies, in those days, were completely free from control by their parent cities, and it would have been quite feasible for a band of Platonists to establish the Republic on the shores of Spain or Gaul. Unfortunately chance led Plato to Syracuse, a great commercial city engaged in desperate wars with Carthage; in such an atmosphere, no philosopher could have achieved much. In the next generation, the rise of Macedon had made all small States antiquated, and brought about the futility of all political experiments in miniature. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-utopian-and-dystopian-fiction/556769/38 "2010-10-14T18:46:10Z")
_Pictures of a Socialist Future_ is a dystopian novel that was written in 1893. It correctly predicted many of the horrors of 20th century socialism. It is available for free on pdf. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-utopian-and-dystopian-fiction/556769/39 "2010-10-14T19:00:05Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > One of my favorites, if you can get hold of it is “With Folded Hands” (a novelette about a nanny-state distopia; still great despite being obviously written in the late 40s). [By Jack Williamson.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/With_Folded_Hands) Later expanded into the novel-length _The Humanoids._ ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2010, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-utopian-and-dystopian-fiction/556769/40 "2010-10-14T19:02:17Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Snow Crash, by Neal Stephenson, has one of the most imaginative dystopian societies I’ve ever seen. I’ve never heard that called “dystopian” before. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-utopian-and-dystopian-fiction/556769.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-me-some-utopian-and-dystopian-fiction/556769.md?page=3)