# Recommend some jazzy Frank Zappa **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 22, 2004, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-some-jazzy-frank-zappa/281104 "2004-12-22T03:04:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2004, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-some-jazzy-frank-zappa/281104/1 "2004-12-22T03:04:06Z")
While I really like Frank Zappa, and have listened to him since the 1960s, some of his albums bear repeated listening a lot more than others. For example, while _Prelude to the Afternoon of a Sexually Aroused Gas Mask_ is entertaining enough in its way, it’s not something I find myself humming in the car. I have a number of Zappa’s albums, but I’d like to get more. However, there’s an awful lot of them, and I’d prefer albums that are heavier on jazzier, more extended cuts, rather than the ones that sound like a flatulent rhinoceros fell into the orchestra pit (not that there’s anything wrong with that). Of the albums I have, I particularly like _Hot Rats, Waka/Jawaka,_ and _The Grand Wazoo_, along with about half of _Weasels Ripped My Flesh_. While I like parts of _Absolutely Free, We’re Only in It for the Money, Lumpy Gravy,_ and _200 Motels_, they are pretty episodic and don’t have that many extended musical riffs. An album that I don’t particularly like is _Zoot Allures_. I find that I rarely have a hankering to listen to _The Torture Never Stops_. I appreciate some recommendations on what other Zappa albums I might like based on these preferences. ---
**Author:** ![Tentacle\_Monster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba9def/32.png) [@Tentacle\_Monster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tentacle_Monster)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2004, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-some-jazzy-frank-zappa/281104/2 "2004-12-22T03:07:50Z")
_The Yellow Shark, Jazz from Hell, Uncle Meat_ and _Joe’s Garage_. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2004, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-some-jazzy-frank-zappa/281104/3 "2004-12-22T14:34:53Z")
The closest thing you’ll find in Zappa’s extensive catalog to the ones you’ve already listed as your favorites is **Sleep Dirt** (the working title for which was _Hot Rats III_). The album opens with a heavy, brooding, extended guitar excursion, runs through several songs from an abandoned _Wazoo_-era stage musical and a lovely acoustic guitar duet, and climaxes with the lengthy powerhouse jam “The Ocean Is the Ultimate Solution.” Unfortunately, the original LP mix is not available on CD. The original LP was all instrumental, while the CD version adds vocals and new rhythm tracks to the songs from the _Hunchentoot_ musical, deleting some of Ruth Underwood’s brilliant percussion parts in the process. Also check out **Roxy and Elsewhere** , especially the great “Echidna’s Arf (Of You)”/“Don’t You Ever Wash That Thing?” sequence. If you like Zappa’s guitar soloing in isolation, try **Shut Up 'n Play Yer Guitar**. The two extended pieces at the end should be right up your alley. Then there’s **You Can’t Do That On Stage Anymore Vol. 2 (The Helsinki Concert)** for some extended jamming with the a stripped down version of the Roxy-era band–no horns, but still featuring Ruth Underwood and George Duke. You might also try Jean-Luc Ponty’s album of Zappa compositions (plus one jam with FZ himself), **King Kong**. ---
**Author:** ![NicePete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ee7513/32.png) [@NicePete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NicePete)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2004, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-some-jazzy-frank-zappa/281104/4 "2004-12-22T19:50:04Z")
I’m going to second what **Biffy** said, especially re: _Sleep Dirt_ and _Shut Up…_ I would add _Burnt Weeny Sandwich_ to what’s already been mentioned. It’s a favorite and hits somewhere between jazz and avant-garde/modern classical music. Don’t be put off by that description – it’s very good. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2004, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-some-jazzy-frank-zappa/281104/5 "2004-12-22T22:29:24Z")
The best value in music today is still the FZ CD released a few years ago, with \*both \*\*\*Apostrophe \*\*and **Overnite Sensation** on it. Just amazing, his best two albums IMO on one CD, I don’t believe you could do better. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2004, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-some-jazzy-frank-zappa/281104/6 "2004-12-22T22:39:28Z")
Gotta agree with **Askance** on **Apostrophe/Overnite Sensation**. I’m also really fond of the Mother’s first album, **Freak Out!** , but it’s a little more psychedelic and a little rougher production-wise than some of the later stuff, so you may want to listen to it if possible beofre buying a copy. ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2004, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-some-jazzy-frank-zappa/281104/7 "2004-12-22T22:45:13Z")
How about **Jazz From Hell**? ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-some-jazzy-frank-zappa/281104/8 "2004-12-23T00:17:29Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > The best value in music today is still the FZ CD released a few years ago, with \*both \*\*\*Apostrophe \*\*and **Overnite Sensation** on it. Just amazing, his best two albums IMO on one CD, I don’t believe you could do better. FWIW, that specific CD is long out of print. It was replaced by separate CDs for the two albums when the entire Zappa catalog was reissued by Ryko in 1995. ---
**Author:** ![NicePete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ee7513/32.png) [@NicePete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NicePete)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-some-jazzy-frank-zappa/281104/9 "2004-12-23T00:35:27Z")
While I like both **Apostrophe** and **Overnight Sensation** , I wouldn’t classify either as “jazzy” Zappa. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-some-jazzy-frank-zappa/281104/10 "2004-12-23T01:13:51Z")
> [@AugestWest](#): > > While I like both **Apostrophe** and **Overnight Sensation** , I wouldn’t classify either as “jazzy” Zappa. What would you compare them to? ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-some-jazzy-frank-zappa/281104/11 "2004-12-23T02:05:17Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > What would you compare them to? I would compare them to Zoot Allures, which the OP cited as an album on the “not so great” list. **Biffy** , of course, is absolutely correct in his post. His recommendations are excellent. I second the YCDTOSA2 suggestion. The extended Pygmy Twylyte is one of my top ten favorite Zappa tracks. I’d group my favorite albums as follows. This isn’t exhaustive, or even particularly accurate, but when I think of (my favorite) Zappa albums, these are the general groups I think of them in. Young Person’s Guide to Frank Zappa Joe’s Garage Apostrophe (’) Overnite Sensation You Are What You Is Zoot Allures One Size Fits All Them Or Us Sheik Yerbouti Man From Utopia Baby Snakes Old School Freak Out Absolutely Free We’re Only In It For The Money Chunga’s Revenge Mothermania Uncle Meat Flo & Eddie Just Another Band From LA Weasels Ripped My Flesh Fillmore East, June 1971 Fan Favorites Hot Rats Roxie & Elsewhere Grand Wazoo Sleep Dirt (Vinyl release) Selected Tracks Bongo Fury (Carolina Hardcore Ecstacy and Muffin Man) FZ Meets The Mothers Of Prevention (We’re Turning Again) It’s not one of my personal favorites, but you might want to check out **Studio Tan**. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-some-jazzy-frank-zappa/281104/12 "2004-12-23T02:48:09Z")
> [@Ellis Dee](#): > > The extended Pygmy Twylyte is one of my top ten favorite Zappa tracks. Ever notice that Zappa quotes “The World Is a Ghetto” in his solo? BTW, I erred when I said there were no horns in the Helsinki band–Napoleon Murphy Brock still provides sax and flute when not singing. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-some-jazzy-frank-zappa/281104/13 "2004-12-23T09:21:33Z")
> [@Biffy the Elephant Shrew](#): > > Ever notice that Zappa quotes “The World Is a Ghetto” in his solo? _sheepish_ Um, no, nor am I familiar with “The World Is a Ghetto”. Please elaborate, for now I must know. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-some-jazzy-frank-zappa/281104/14 "2004-12-23T15:35:20Z")
> [@Ellis Dee](#): > > Um, no, nor am I familiar with “The World Is a Ghetto”. > > Please elaborate, for now I must know. The song was a top ten hit by War in 1972-73. Zappa plays a slightly jumbled up but clearly recognizable version of the chorus melody from 5:35 to 5:55. _Don’t you know Can’t you see That for you And for me The world is a ghetto_ ---
**Author:** ![Kilvert\_s\_Pagan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@Kilvert\_s\_Pagan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kilvert_s_Pagan)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2004, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-some-jazzy-frank-zappa/281104/15 "2004-12-23T17:15:00Z")
Always good to see postings from noted Crimhead **Biffy the Elephant Shrew** over here. His posts are usually right on target. Some embellishments: **Inca Roads** from One Size Fits All is clearly jazzy in places, although the entire album doesn’t qualify as such. While I’m not as much of a fan of FZ’s 80’s studio work, **Sinister Footwear II** and **Marqueson’s Chicken** from Them or Us have both caught my ear. A minor hijack: you might consider checking out Mike Keneally’s work… he has (IMHO) taken the FZ influence in new directions better than anybody. **The Universe Will Provide** is a Stravinskyesque piece he just did which combines rock guitar and the Metropole Orkest. **Dancing** is really wide-ranging, but (to your original post) more than half of the songs have lyrics. He has many others. ---
**Author:** ![lawoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/35a633/32.png) [@lawoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawoot)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2004, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommend-some-jazzy-frank-zappa/281104/16 "2004-12-31T04:04:32Z")
For a slightly different take on ‘Jazzy’ FZ, how about [The Ed Palermo Big Band plays the Music of Frank Zappa](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000005EGN/qid%3D1104466072/sr%3D11-1/ref%3Dsr%5F11%5F1/102-0146161-0528909)?