# Recommendations for Rat Pack(?) Music **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 10, 2005, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommendations-for-rat-pack-music/293837 "2005-03-10T15:00:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommendations-for-rat-pack-music/293837/1 "2005-03-10T15:00:11Z")
Pardon the vague title but I’m having a bit of a blonde moment and can’t recall the proper name of the genre of music Frank Sinatra, Sammie Davis Jr, Tony Bennett, _et al_ would be classified under (lounge?) but I just finished watching a movie with some songs of that type and would like some suggestions as to what albums of their’s and their peers I could look into to get a greater appreciation for it as I’m constantly looking to broaden my entertainment horizons. (as evidenced by this, my nth “recommend a \_\_\_\_\_ to me” thread) ---
**Author:** ![LifeOnWry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/96bed5/32.png) [@LifeOnWry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LifeOnWry)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommendations-for-rat-pack-music/293837/2 "2005-03-10T15:24:58Z")
Probably “standards” or “jazz” - this is the music they play on a station called Standard Time on Sirius satellite radio, and that station is categorized as jazz. I sometimes call it “martini” music just because I associate it with that type of lifestyle. I have a sizable collection of this type of music (most of it from compilations, so I don’t know if I can help you with album recommendations, but I can maybe steer you in the direction of some artists who do this kind of music: Bobby Darin Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin, Sammy Davis Jr. (the actual Rat Pack) Tony Bennett Diana Krall Nat “King” Cole Ray Charles Peggy Lee Rosemary Clooney Danny Aiello (yes, the actor - he’s actually not bad as a singer) Louis Prima Ella Fitzgerald Asleep at the Wheel Harry Connick Jr. Peter Cincotti Lou Rawls Johnny Mathis Tom Jones Engelbert Humperdinck Recently, this genre of standards has become pretty popular with younger artists, too - both Cyndi Lauper and Queen Latifah have recorded albums in this vein; Norah Jones has done a few stylistic covers, too. Barry Manilow, believe it or not. If you’re looking for compilation CDs, you might look at this one: [Martini Lounge](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0007GD4L4/qid=1110469251/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/104-9702764-8576706). ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommendations-for-rat-pack-music/293837/3 "2005-03-10T15:35:42Z")
The whole [Ultra-Lounge](http://www.ultralounge.com/) series can’t be beat. ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommendations-for-rat-pack-music/293837/4 "2005-03-10T15:41:17Z")
Harry Connick Jr. is probably the best of the modern jazz/swing/lounge/crooners, and he’s also a terrific musician and great arranger. I’m a big fan of jump blues, which I consider the “missing link” between the big band-era crooners (Frank, Dean, Tony) of the '40s and the early rockabilly/rhythm and blues/rock ‘n’ roll of the ‘50s. The coolest jump blues singers were Louis Jordan (a black guy) and Louis Prima (an Italian guy). Jordan was more of an heir apparent to swingin’ zoot-suited bandleader Cab Calloway, whereas Prima really exemplified the “Vegas lounge act” persona, with his deadpan girl singer Keely Smith and his raucous backup band, Sam Butera and the Witnesses. I’d say both Louises “rock harder” than the original Rat Packers, and are more dependent on horns and rhythm sections. Needless to say, I like them a lot. They were, in turn, big influences on the “new swing” scene of the late ‘90s, with the suit-wearing bands like Royal Crown Revue, Big Bad Voodoo Daddy, and the Cherry Poppin’ Daddies (who started out as an eclectic rock-ska band, but that’s a subject for another time). While I like Asleep At the Wheel, I’d consider them to be in a separate category from the jazz standard singers and lounge crooners: Western swing, a combination of country and western music (nothing like the pop country of today) with big band swing. Bob Wills and the Texas Playboys are the archetypal Western swing band (from the '40s), but Asleep At the Wheel carries the tradition on today. Lyle Lovett also did some good Western swing with his “Large Band.” I only call attention to this because the OP asked for more crooner-style music, and Western swing might come as a real shock to someone expecting Sinatra-style cool. I like it all, though. (My dream band would incorporate elements of swing, jump blues, lounge music, surf guitar rock, rockabilly, and alt-country, so there’s definitely room for crossover between the genres.) ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommendations-for-rat-pack-music/293837/5 "2005-03-10T15:43:12Z")
> [@LifeOnWry](#): > > Probably “standards” or “jazz” - this is the music they play on a station called Standard Time on Sirius satellite radio, and that station is categorized as jazz. I sometimes call it “martini” music just because I associate it with that type of lifestyle. When I think of jazz, I tend to think of Miles Davis and John Coltrane. Are they really considered the same genre? Or is it like Ashlee Simpson and Pink Floyd both being rock? Whatever the case, thanks for the suggestions… I take it that by your not mentioning any albums at all, that it’s more of a singles driven genre? My knowledge of this style of music’s abysmal at best. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommendations-for-rat-pack-music/293837/6 "2005-03-10T15:45:58Z")
I can’t stand most of this stuff…I’ve given Tony Bennett two chances, and gotten rid of both albums (and one was duets with Bill Evans!), and I would never bother with a whole disc of Sammy Davis or Dean Martin crap. Sinatra, however, is another matter entirely. According to jazz critic Gary Giddins, one of the four defining pop music singers of the 20th century. I would recommend picking up a couple of his 1950s recordings for Columbia: the best arguably being [Songs for Swingin’ Lovers!](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00000AEVA/qid=1110470552/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/104-5192141-3731149) and [Only the Lonely](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000006OHF/qid=1110470103/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/104-5192141-3731149). The first is manic, the second depressive. ---
**Author:** ![LifeOnWry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/96bed5/32.png) [@LifeOnWry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LifeOnWry)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommendations-for-rat-pack-music/293837/7 "2005-03-10T15:50:21Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > When I think of jazz, I tend to think of Miles Davis and John Coltrane. Are they really considered the same genre? Or is it like Ashlee Simpson and Pink Floyd both being rock? Whatever the case, thanks for the suggestions… I take it that by your not mentioning any albums at all, that it’s more of a singles driven genre? My knowledge of this style of music’s abysmal at best. Yeah, kinda. Technically, the majority of the music I mentioned would probably be called “pop” - because back in the day, it WAS pop. (This would be long before Ashlee Simpson was born.) Now, possibly “pop standards.” As **BBVoodooLou** said, there’s a fair amount of crossover - and in fact, the band Big Bad Voodoo Daddy is kinda similar to Asleep At The Wheel with a bunch of Louis Prima thrown in. I went backwards in my exploration of the music - started with the Stray Cats, linked to Brian Setzer’s Orchestra, found Asleep at the Wheel, tracked that back to Louis Prima, and suddenly found myself awash in the kind of music my Mom listened to when I was growing up - which is pretty much exactly the kind of music the OP is looking at, the vocal pop standards. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommendations-for-rat-pack-music/293837/8 "2005-03-10T16:02:14Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > When I think of jazz, I tend to think of Miles Davis and John Coltrane. Are they really considered the same genre? Nah. But you have to remember that in the late 1930s, cutting-edge jazz WAS “pop music.” When Sinatra started out, he was the vocalist for Tommy Dorsey’s Orchestra, a bona-fide swing-jazz band. By the late '40s, “cutting-edge jazz” was be-bop, which confused the hell out of the white bourgeoisie. Ya couldn’t dance to it, you see. Jazz ceased to be “pop” and became an outsider “art music,” and the prevailing top-selling pop music was singers fronting bands full of swooping strings. The singers kept as much of their jazz sensibility as their market-share seemed to want – Anita O’Day or Billy Eckstine would sing “hotter” than, say, Rosemary Clooney. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommendations-for-rat-pack-music/293837/9 "2005-03-10T16:03:13Z")
**Lou** : since you seem to be the resident eclectic music expert and you mentioned alt-country, rockabilly, and similar genres, can you list some of those as well? Growing up, I was subjected to tons of country music from my dad, literally ranging from the 1910s to the 1990s, but ignored most of it then although now, I’m growing more curious about it, specifically artists such as Dwight Yoakam. Any suggestions for similar singers and bands? Better to ask here than start yet another thread. Hell, I should just email you whenever I get curious about new music, assuming your address is public. > [@LifeOnWry](#): > > Yeah, kinda. Technically, the majority of the music I mentioned would probably be called “pop” - because back in the day, it WAS pop. (This would be long before Ashlee Simpson was born.) Now, possibly “pop standards.” The problem is, pop’s basically a catch-all and has no cohesive sound though. It’s pretty much meaningless as a real genre of music. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommendations-for-rat-pack-music/293837/10 "2005-03-10T16:06:45Z")
> [@Ukulele Ike](#): > > By the late '40s, “cutting-edge jazz” was be-bop, which confused the hell out of the white bourgeoisie. Ya couldn’t dance to it, you see. Jazz ceased to be “pop” and became an outsider “art music,” and the prevailing top-selling pop music was singers fronting bands full of swooping strings. The singers kept as much of their jazz sensibility as their market-share seemed to want – Anita O’Day or Billy Eckstine would sing “hotter” than, say, Rosemary Clooney. Bebop? Is that in any way related to Doo Whop? I’m severely out of my element here. ---
**Author:** ![LifeOnWry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/96bed5/32.png) [@LifeOnWry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LifeOnWry)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommendations-for-rat-pack-music/293837/11 "2005-03-10T16:26:17Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > Bebop? Is that in any way related to Doo Whop? I’m severely out of my element here. Yes, you are! Bebop bears no resemblance to DooWop, which was basically a capella “street corner” music when it started. Bebop is experimental jazz. You’re right, though, that pop music is a pretty meaningless category now. Country music is also rife with crossovers - you’ve got pop country (Lonestar), western swing (the afore-mentioned Asleep at the Wheel, Ricky Van Shelton), “cowboy” music (Marty Robbins), places where country meets “pop standard” (Patsy Cline and Willie Nelson and Lyle Lovett), bluegrass (where country meets folk - Alison Krauss, Ricky Skaggs), rockabilly (Brian Setzer)… Kenny Chesney has done an album that’s really reminiscent of Jimmy Buffett, so whatever category THAT’S in… ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommendations-for-rat-pack-music/293837/12 "2005-03-10T16:48:23Z")
I listened to country from around 1992 (or whenever it was that _Boot Scootin’ Boogie_ was at its peak) to around 2001 in addition to being forced to listen to older forms when I visited my dad so I’m familiar with the current trend of the genre (which is why I no longer listen to it… ugh) and most of the big names of the past two and a half decades, plus everyone sans Van Shelton and Setzer (the _Jump, Jive, and Wail_ guy?) in your post. I’m wanting to try some of the more unique and/or traditional songs though, which is why I mentioned Yoakam specifically… his Bakersfield sound isn’t what you usually find on the radio dominated by the likes of Shania Twain, Faith Hill, Tim McGraw, and the parasitic Kenny Chesney. I hate that guy. I’m experiencing déjà vu after typing all that out though… haven’t you and I had this conversation recently? ---
**Author:** ![LifeOnWry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/96bed5/32.png) [@LifeOnWry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LifeOnWry)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommendations-for-rat-pack-music/293837/13 "2005-03-10T16:59:46Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > I’m experiencing déjà vu after typing all that out though… haven’t you and I had this conversation recently? Possibly not you and I, but you and someone else. And I’m not going to be the best person to talk to about Yoakam-esque music, because while I like him a lot, for some reason I compare him with Tom Petty, musically (or maybe it’s just that they have the same hat 🙂 ) BUT - if you’re wanting to explore some older/more traditional country music in general, you might look into: Chet Atkins, Buck Owens, Flatt & Scruggs, George Jones, Hank Williams (SENIOR), Hoyt Axton, Sawyer Brown, Roy Clark, Roy Rogers & Sons of the Pioneers. Definitely Ricky Skaggs and Alison Krauss & Union Station, and Ricky Van Shelton. Brian Setzer is the Jump, Jive and Wail guy you’re thinking of, but I think Louis Prima is “more” assocaited with that song in particular. Setzer started out as one of the Stray Cats, and then split off into less rockabilly and more swing with his Brian Setzer Orchestra. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommendations-for-rat-pack-music/293837/14 "2005-03-10T17:16:24Z")
> [@LifeOnWry](#): > > Possibly not you and I, but you and someone else. I knew I wasn’t crazy – I did a search and while it wasn’t the same conversation, it was still a somewhat similar [discussion](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5872839&postcount=20) about country. I remember it mostly because I tweaked you about our age difference. I \*\*\*love \*\*\*Sawyer Brown, by the way. Thanks for the reminder… they’re definitely going down on my list of must-buys. ---
**Author:** ![LifeOnWry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/96bed5/32.png) [@LifeOnWry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LifeOnWry)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommendations-for-rat-pack-music/293837/15 "2005-03-10T17:27:59Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > I remember it mostly because I tweaked you about our age difference. Ha ha! Further proof of - turning 40 has apparently affected my memory. ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recommendations-for-rat-pack-music/293837/16 "2005-03-10T18:31:04Z")
> [@LifeOnWry](#): > > Brian Setzer is the Jump, Jive and Wail guy you’re thinking of, but I think Louis Prima is “more” assocaited with that song in particular. Setzer started out as one of the Stray Cats, and then split off into less rockabilly and more swing with his Brian Setzer Orchestra. Yeah, “Jump, Jive and Wail” is actually Louis Prima’s song, which Setzer covered with his big swing Orchestra to great success. I think Prima’s version was used in the Gap commercial with the swing dancers that was popular around that time, but I don’t remember for sure. I would never consider anything Setzer has done to fall in the “country” genre, but there definitely is common ground between some rockabilly and certain subgenres of country. There’s a newer subgenre called “cowpunk” that blends old-school country music with punk rock (Hank Williams III is a prime example), and of course there are plenty of psychobilly bands (rockabilly mixed with punk and some Dick Dale-style surf guitar) to further muddy the boundaries.