# Recording Industry takes action against 12 year old girl, forces settlement **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 10, 2003, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recording-industry-takes-action-against-12-year-old-girl-forces-settlement/200697 "2003-09-10T05:40:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recording-industry-takes-action-against-12-year-old-girl-forces-settlement/200697/141 "2003-09-11T16:33:44Z")
I’m a guy who has a lot of mp3s on his computer, the clear majority being ones that I bought the CDs for. The stats give me: 3,253 files. Now, that’s not all mp3s, as there are Winamp playlists and log files from EAC in there, but it’s probably safe to say it’s about 3000 songs. And actually, this is a low number, as I have about 20 more CDs that I’ve encoded but can’t get off the CDs because I overburned them and my drives don’t like that, so getting those encoded will have to wait until I can go back home and get the physical CDs. If I remove all songs that I do not physically own, that’s 2,455 files, so call it 2,350 songs (roughly). However, this is somewhat skewed as some of these are legitimate downloads, either from Amazon or a copyright holder. Others are difficult to impossible to find legit in the US (read: the only sources are Hong Kong bootlegs, which is no better than getting it off a LAN or P2P), as some of them are songs from anime and video game soundtracks, a bit of J-Pop, some from the group Geinoh Yamashirogumi, and a soundtrack of a movie few have heard of that is now out of print and impossible to find. So, roughly, I would say that i have probably 700 files that I shoudn’t, call it 30-40 cds. However, some of that would be easy–seeing as how things like symphonies and suites get files for each movement, while others would be much harder. I might have to import from CD Japan, if they’re even still available. I just found the Pi soundtrack on Half, so here it comes. And the rest I should get rid of. However, I don’t know if that’ll ever happen for all of it. Now, does the fact that my legit music outweighs my copyright-infringing music by 4 to 1 justify completely what I have? No. Does the fact that I can’t find some of what I have justify it? No, but I doubt many people will care. What’s my point? Not much of a point, other to say that some people do have many, many CDs which they take time to encode. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recording-industry-takes-action-against-12-year-old-girl-forces-settlement/200697/142 "2003-09-11T17:10:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tiggeril \* > \*\*Just a rather dumb question: do revenues from stuff like the Apple Music Store go to the RIAA? \*\* The RIAA is made up of Universal Music Group, Sony Music, BMG, EMI, and Warner Music, among others. So any of the songs from the Apple Music Store owned by these groups that you buy are going to be ultimately sending more money into the RIAA’s “war chest”. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recording-industry-takes-action-against-12-year-old-girl-forces-settlement/200697/143 "2003-09-11T17:14:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gex gex \* > \*\*I’d like a cite that the majority don’t buy the music they download. Come on **World Eater** , put up or shut up. \*\* Right after you provide with with a cite that they do. I would say when you look at the demographics of mp3 traders, the number of songs in their collections don’t really jibe with their level of disposable income. If you have the CD and encode it for mp3 backup, then what’s the need to download? I have a heard time believing that someone would download an _entire_ album, (gotta make sure you hear every track of course) _and then_ go to the store and throw down $18 bucks for it. What’s the purpose of buying it, you already have the album. Also since most albums these days only have “2 or 3” good songs, why do you go buy the album anyway? Totally full of shit I say. ---
**Author:** ![Rhum\_Runner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rhum\_Runner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhum_Runner)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recording-industry-takes-action-against-12-year-old-girl-forces-settlement/200697/144 "2003-09-11T17:26:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by buttonjockey308 \* > \*\*You know what? To HELL with the RIAA. It’s MY CD, it’s MY computer, and if I bloody well want to share it, it’s MY fucking business. \*\* No, it isn’t. You didn’t buy the music, you bought a license to use the music. > [@](#): > > It’s a sick time in history when commerce controls culture. Rap, for instance, may have once been the voice of the Black American urban struggle, now though, it’s a highly marketed precision dollar funnel for a handful of really rich, really white, really evil people. If 50 Cent only sold a thousand albums, no one would give a shit WHO downloaded his mediocre meanderings. I’m sure there is a point here, though I can’t for the life of me imagine what it might be. > [@](#): > > It’s the gamble you take as an artist. I’ve been writing poetry and short stories for years, some published, some not, but it’s the chance you take that someone who didn’t buy the piece, is going to see, enjoy and possibly even plagarize the piece. If they do, then they do, it’s the chance you take. If the bulk of your writing shows the same lack of thought as your post, it is a wonder you have published anything at all. Unless by “publish” you mean scrawling your phone number on the wall of the john at the local truck stop. > [@](#): > > Just because I may copyright one of my photos, does not mean someone won’t find it somewhere, and set it as ther desktop wallpaper. Tomorrow captain obvious will continue his lecture by explaining how “light” is the opposite of “dark.” > [@](#): > > And this ‘amnesty’ program? What absolute BULLSHIT this is. go ahead morons, stick your hand up, admit to your “theft” and we’ll let you pass, but we’ll be sure and tell our cohorts down the road that you’re one of THEM, and maybe the RIAA won’t sue you, but the dirty little secret, is that ASCAP and BMI will, as they made no agreements with you. If you feel the amnesty program is a bad idea, you certainly need not participate. > [@](#): > > I’m glad as hell that they’re spending even MORE of our money (that’s right, remember, this money they’re spending is money WE have given them) on the 261 trials across the country, their collective legal fees should round out to about $65,000 an hour. Good. Wow. Just wow. I guess my paycheck is really my employer’s money since he gave it to me, right? > [@](#): > > Hell, all 60 million swappers ought to get together, and go class action on the RIAA for calling them ‘thieves’ and their conduct ‘stealing’ in the press, BEFORE a decision is handed down by a court as to whether it is or is not stealing. This sounds like a classic character defamation to me. You’ve never been to law school, have you? In fact, I’d be willing to bet you never made it past the third grade. I only hope you haven’t passed your unfortunate lack of mental prowess to another generation. Please, think of the future. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recording-industry-takes-action-against-12-year-old-girl-forces-settlement/200697/145 "2003-09-11T17:30:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jeevmon \* > \*\*A contract is a voluntary act, **Weirddave**. So what I said still holds. If an artist chooses not to sign with a record company, that’s their prerogative. If they do, well, then they’ve signed over rights. > > \*\* I’m not disputing that. What I am saying is that I take exception to the RIAA’s position that the p2p sharers are thieves stealing bread from the mouths of starving artists when demonstrateably this is not true. In reality their position is “How dare you steal this money before we get a chance to steal it ourselves”. ( without even proving that any money is being stolen ) 2 corralary points: #1, World Eater, you’re the one making the claim that p2p is causing people not to buy albums. It’s up to you to prove it. ( and the RIAA too. As far as I’ve seen, they haven’t proved it at all) Saying “I don’t think anyone who has downloaded a free copy of the song would buy the album” is not proof, it’s just your opinion. #2, jeevmon, your statement “Well, if they don’t like the terms of the contract, don’t sign”, while true, is remarkably disingenious when you consider that the RIAA is the only game in town for an artist who wants a shot at the big time. Name one indie band who has, on their own hook, without any of the big 5 record companies involved, made it to superstardom: Repeated top 40 radio play, stadium venues for concerts, multi-platinum albums, etc… ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recording-industry-takes-action-against-12-year-old-girl-forces-settlement/200697/146 "2003-09-11T17:34:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by buttonjockey308 \* > **Rap, for instance, may have once been the voice of the Black American urban struggle, now though, it’s a highly marketed precision dollar funnel for a handful of really rich, really white, really evil people.** Really, really rich ‘white’ people like, Master P, Dr, Dre, Russell Simmons, P. Diddy, Jermaine Dupree, and Pharrel Williams? The people who pretty much are responsible for every thing that is out these days. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recording-industry-takes-action-against-12-year-old-girl-forces-settlement/200697/147 "2003-09-11T17:49:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Weirddave \* > **World Eater, you’re the one making the claim that p2p is causing people not to buy albums. It’s up to you to prove it. ( and the RIAA too. As far as I’ve seen, they haven’t proved it at all) Saying “I don’t think anyone who has downloaded a free copy of the song would buy the album” is not proof, it’s just your opinion.** Let me try to sum this up succinctly. My point is not that p2p is causing people not to buy albums, it’s causing _downloaders_ not to buy albums. Now whether this is enough to swing the sale of CDs either way who the hell knows, there isn’t enough evidence yet. Also I am talking about mp3 sharing, _not_ p2p, which is perfectly legal and should not be included in this argument. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recording-industry-takes-action-against-12-year-old-girl-forces-settlement/200697/148 "2003-09-11T17:56:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by World Eater \* > \*\*Let me try to sum this up succinctly. My point is not that p2p is causing people not to buy albums, it’s causing _downloaders_ not to buy albums. \*\* Fine. An emminently logical position. Now, can you prove it? ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recording-industry-takes-action-against-12-year-old-girl-forces-settlement/200697/149 "2003-09-11T17:59:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr2001 \* > **The same college students who live off Top Ramen because they can get 5 meals for a dollar? Hmm… eat for a month, or buy a piece of plastic with 11 songs on it, that’s a tough choice.** College students also manage to buy themselves beer and hard liquor, so I think that’s a rather specious argument. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recording-industry-takes-action-against-12-year-old-girl-forces-settlement/200697/150 "2003-09-11T18:07:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Weirddave \* > \*\*Fine. An emminently logical position. Now, can you prove it? \*\* Not anymore then you can prove that people who download always run out and buy the album. Of all the people I know who share, they don’t buy anything, because, what’s the point? ---
**Author:** ![Balle\_M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/13edae/32.png) [@Balle\_M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balle_M)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recording-industry-takes-action-against-12-year-old-girl-forces-settlement/200697/151 "2003-09-11T18:43:09Z")
I’ve never said this before, but I agree with DtC. (must…fight…can’t agree with Dio…end of the world…) Nothing would please me more than to see the RIAA collapse into the pile of festering greed that it is. The don’t give a rat’s ass about the artists - it’s all about control. They know that if a new distribution model emerges that allows the great unwashed to hear some of the really good artists out there that the RIAA doesn’t own, their days are numbered. Look at it this way… If the RIAA controlled all art, what chance would a Dali or Picaso have to get his work shown? We’d all be waiting for this years version of Elvis on velvet or Dogs Playing Poker. (…err…both of which I own…) ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recording-industry-takes-action-against-12-year-old-girl-forces-settlement/200697/152 "2003-09-11T18:49:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JThunder \* > \*\*College students also manage to buy themselves beer and hard liquor, so I think that’s a rather specious argument. \*\* Hey, man, a CD is worth about 5 beers, or a bottle of cheap liquor! You can’t download a beer… yet. ---
**Author:** ![Balle\_M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/13edae/32.png) [@Balle\_M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balle_M)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recording-industry-takes-action-against-12-year-old-girl-forces-settlement/200697/153 "2003-09-11T19:24:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Beagle \* > \*\*No copyright protection will yield no commercial music industry. Nor will there be file sharing, except illegal bootleg concert CDs, because nobody will ever record another song if they have to lose money to do it. > > \*\* This is the same bullshit the industry spouted about cassette tapes and VCRs. You really need a new mantra to chant. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recording-industry-takes-action-against-12-year-old-girl-forces-settlement/200697/154 "2003-09-11T19:45:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by World Eater \* > \*\*Not anymore then you can prove that people who download always run out and buy the album. > > Of all the people I know who share, they don’t buy anything, because, what’s the point? \*\* Well, i can only speak for myself here. I don’t _always_ go out and buy the album, because that’s half the point of downloading stuff–to work out if i like it or not. When you ask “what’s the point” of buying the album after you’ve downloaded (some or all of) the songs, for me it’s largely the warm squishy feeling i get from owning not only the original CD, but also the proper CD cover, liner notes, etc., etc. For me, it’s just not the same unless i have those things. Granted, i do have some CDs that i have copied from friends, but they are a very, very small percentage of my overall collection. It’s basically the same logic i use when buying books–something i do all the time as an avid reader and a grad student. Say i pay $20 for a 300-page book, which is not unusual. I could take that same book out of my university library and photocopy it for less than 10 bucks, but i don’t because i like to have the real thing, and to be able to call it mine. And, as **Weirddave** says, most people find it far more enjoyable reading a real book than reading online. In fact, these Boards probably constitute my main online reading habit, and i only do it because there’s no other way to participate. I’ve got a question for all those opposed to file sharing–have you never taped a TV show and kept it on tape after watching it (i.e. not just time-shifting), or put music onto a blank tape or CD for a friend, or had a friend make you a copy (tape or CD) of an album that they own, or photocopied more than the fair-use-authorized percentage of a book? And, to those like **World Eater** who keep parrotting “It’s breaking the law,” why don’t you give it a rest? As far as i can tell, virtually everyone in this discussion concedes that the law is being broken. The main argument is over whether the law is a good one in the first place, whether there might not be better ways for the RIAA to go about it campaign, and whether it is really file sharers who must bear the most blame for depriving artists of the rewards for their labor. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recording-industry-takes-action-against-12-year-old-girl-forces-settlement/200697/155 "2003-09-11T19:48:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SnoopyFan \* > \*\* > Let’s say that Joe Blow likes Britney Spear’s new “song.” And let’s say that Joe works at Wendy’s making minimum wage. Joe doesn’t buy CD’s. Joe is more concerned with paying the rent. > > Joe is never going to buy Britney’s CD, computer downloading or no. But he likes that one particular song, so he downloads it. > > How has Britney lost money, considering he was never going to buy her CD anyway? \*\* All that shows is that Britney would not have earned money from Joe Blow (assuming that Joe would indeed _never_ by her CD). It does not justify music piracy in general. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recording-industry-takes-action-against-12-year-old-girl-forces-settlement/200697/156 "2003-09-11T20:53:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by World Eater \* > \*\*You do realize there is a difference between copying a blank tape for a few friends (takes an hour or so, dregradation of quality) and making mp3s available on the internet (file available to millions of people, no loss of sound quality from each copy) don’t you? > > Let’s at least get the facts out. \*\* I’m sorry **World Eater** I usually agree with everything you say, but I think **rooves** sort of has a point here. It’s not as if only **rooves** did the cassette tape copying thing back then. I’d wager most kids did that (several million teens sharing music?). So, does the music industry want to go back to the 70s and start hunting down everyone who shared music by cassette to all of their friends? Hey, the only difference between now and then is a bigger population and a quicker and more technologically advanced way to share. Okay say for instance you’ve got a song in the 70s, say “Ballroom Blitz”. So, all across the country some teens buy the album and then tape it for their friends. Pretty soon all the teens who want a copy of this song have got one, one way or another. Everyone I knew back then did the same thing, one album could supply tapes for 20, 30, 50 100? kids in a group at school just by word of mouth (meaning that each kid with a copy then copies his copy for his friends and so on). Multiply that (completely guessed upon) number of kids per album by the number of times that would be likely to have happened back in the “good old days”? Okay, so it wasn’t shared as many times as by today’s superinformation highway standards, But HELL, sharing music with others is sharing music with others. If it’s wrong, then it “should” be wrong on all scales. Shouldn’t it? Otherwise, it sort of sounds as if the music industry is complaining about the technology, not the sharing itself, it’s as if they’re trapped in the dark ages, and kindof whining about it. I’m all for paying for the songs I download, I am FOR paying the ARTISTS what’s due them, but if the music industry wants and truly needs this, they need to GET WITH THE PROGRAM and make it technologically possible. Like someone else said the “pay per” sites are ridiculous! Both in selection and file format. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recording-industry-takes-action-against-12-year-old-girl-forces-settlement/200697/157 "2003-09-11T21:04:03Z")
Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t the music companies get money for each blank cassette sold? ---
**Author:** ![Ooner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/c67d28/32.png) [@Ooner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ooner)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recording-industry-takes-action-against-12-year-old-girl-forces-settlement/200697/158 "2003-09-11T21:24:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by World Eater \* > \*\*I love all this, “I download a few songs then go buy the album”, stuff. You know you motherfuckers ain’t buying shit. I don’t know a single person that DLs an album, and then deletes it and goes and pays $18 or whatever bucks for it. > > I’m sure there are a few people doing that but believe me, they are the _exception_, not the norm. All my CDs were stolen a couple months ago. I have bought 9 CDs since then: The Dandy Warhols x 2 Spoon The Shins Sigur Ros Hot Hot Heat The Pixies The Faint The Flaming Lips Each of these bands I learned about through talking to someone on the internet. I don’t know anybody in real life that listens to any of these bands and have never heard them on the radio. After they were suggested, I downloaded music by each of them, and enjoyed it, and purchased the albums as a result. In several of those cases, I had the entire album on the computer, and still purchased a copy to listen to in my car. Had I not downloaded the music, I would have not purchased the albums. Had the music been unavailable for download, I likely would have never heard music from any of them. In addition to those CD purchases, I will purchase future albums of said bands, I will see them in concert (Pixies Reuinion Tour next year!) I will buy t-shirts and other merchandise. I will continue to find bands I enjoy and sample their work through downloading. Those I enjoy I will continue to support. I don’t think I’m an “exception” ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recording-industry-takes-action-against-12-year-old-girl-forces-settlement/200697/159 "2003-09-11T21:53:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cheesesteak \* > \*\*Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t the music companies get money for each blank cassette sold? \*\* Hmm, that sounds vaguely familiar. You could be right, but even so isn’t their big beef with the wicked “filesharers” that by sharing the MUSIC we’re causing horrible, irreparable harm to the artists and industry? I fail to see where this is all that much different from tapes. Other than in volume of sharing taking place. Also, the argument someone brought up about “well but tapes don’t have longevity or quality sound and that’s why the industry doesn’t/didn’t ‘care’ as much about that sort of thing”?? Ummm, ??? Okay, so it’s okay to have free music as long as the quality isn’t “as good” and the person who has the “pirated” copy doesn’t enjoy it quite as much as the original? That really makes me wonder what their real agenda is. ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Train\_Song](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4da419/32.png) [@Black\_Train\_Song](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Black_Train_Song)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recording-industry-takes-action-against-12-year-old-girl-forces-settlement/200697/160 "2003-09-11T22:30:12Z")
I always thought that these rock bands and the like made most of their money by touring and that album sales were primarily to get people to go to the shows (and to make money for the record label). If that’s the case then aren’t these bands benifiting if their music reaches more people? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recording-industry-takes-action-against-12-year-old-girl-forces-settlement/200697.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recording-industry-takes-action-against-12-year-old-girl-forces-settlement/200697.md?page=9)