# Recreational Outrage Time: Texas Jailers Run A Rape Camp **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 17, 2013, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recreational-outrage-time-texas-jailers-run-a-rape-camp/661189 "2013-06-17T16:00:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recreational-outrage-time-texas-jailers-run-a-rape-camp/661189/21 "2013-06-17T22:13:05Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > No it wasn’t. > No it doesn’t. So is this your entire posting style these days? ---
**Author:** ![Taiyoshi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b2d939/32.png) [@Taiyoshi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taiyoshi)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recreational-outrage-time-texas-jailers-run-a-rape-camp/661189/22 "2013-06-17T22:19:19Z")
This is wrong in so many ways, rape is not a good thing. Especially when its happening in prison. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recreational-outrage-time-texas-jailers-run-a-rape-camp/661189/23 "2013-06-17T22:43:19Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > And it took THREE YEARS to get into the news? 😕 When I saw the date on the article, I wondered if it was one of those troll-revived threads. > > It wouldn’t surprise me if Joe Arpaio’s doing this in Arizona. :mad: Ok, did some more research. [This article from the Russia Times](http://rt.com/usa/camp-complaint-acts-jailers-839/) says the guards plead guilty in 2012 to various charges related to the rape camp, and that all three served time, one for one year, the other two for eighteen months. The Courthouse News Service article says the two women are filing a civil complaint for damages. Russia Times says it’s a criminal complaint, but the Courthouse News Service article makes more sense, if the guys were convicted in 2012, as their own article states. I’d say it’s fair to say the reporting has not been stellar here. I’d say the reason this is hitting the media now is that the civil complaint probably contains all the extremely lurid allegations about what went on. [This article from The Raw Story](http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/06/17/female-inmates-sue-texas-county-for-running-rape-camp-at-jail/)confirms my suspicions. I hope the Live Oak County Sherriff’s Dept. that ran the jail gets sued so hard that they have to use Big Wheels to chase suspects for years. ---
**Author:** ![madrabbitwoman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c37758/32.png) [@madrabbitwoman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madrabbitwoman)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recreational-outrage-time-texas-jailers-run-a-rape-camp/661189/24 "2013-06-17T22:57:26Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Ok, did some more research. [This article from the Russia Times](http://rt.com/usa/camp-complaint-acts-jailers-839/) says the guards plead guilty in 2012 to various charges related to the rape camp, and that all three served time, one for one year, the other two for eighteen months. The Courthouse News Service article says the two women are filing a civil complaint for damages. Russia Times says it’s a criminal complaint, but the Courthouse News Service article makes more sense, if the guys were convicted in 2012, as their own article states. > > I’d say it’s fair to say the reporting has not been stellar here. > > I’d say the reason this is hitting the media now is that the civil complaint probably contains all the extremely lurid allegations about what went on. [This article from The Raw Story](http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/06/17/female-inmates-sue-texas-county-for-running-rape-camp-at-jail/)confirms my suspicions. > > I hope the Live Oak County Sherriff’s Dept. that ran the jail gets sued so hard that they have to use Big Wheels to chase suspects for years. 1 year. 18 months. For running a rape camp. Words fail me ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recreational-outrage-time-texas-jailers-run-a-rape-camp/661189/25 "2013-06-17T23:03:40Z")
> [@madrabbitwoman](#): > > 1 year. 18 months. For running a rape camp. Words fail me Well I suspect they plea-bargained. Now as to why the DA would let people who repeatedly raped inmates plea down to 18 months, that’s an interesting question. It’s like they didn’t think it mattered. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recreational-outrage-time-texas-jailers-run-a-rape-camp/661189/26 "2013-06-17T23:11:21Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > So is this your entire posting style these days? No it isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recreational-outrage-time-texas-jailers-run-a-rape-camp/661189/27 "2013-06-17T23:18:20Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Is it really any different in other countries? I don’t know and don’t care for purposes of this thread. It’s bad enough in the USA. We should be better. Period. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recreational-outrage-time-texas-jailers-run-a-rape-camp/661189/28 "2013-06-17T23:35:01Z")
To be fair, it is a lot harder to control this in the US, because we lock up so many more people. Even more difficult in Texas. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2013, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recreational-outrage-time-texas-jailers-run-a-rape-camp/661189/29 "2013-06-17T23:40:56Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Is it really any different in other countries? Speaking about here in France : yes and no. Prison conditions are abysmal here (not just between inmates & COs, but the food, the lodgings and so forth - IIRC Amnesty Int. rated French prisons as the worst in Europe), assaults and rapes are disturbingly common ; and sadly there’s no big hue and cry about it either. In fact, for the most part it’s just never mentioned at all in any news or media - and the government isn’t interested in even tracking stats about it. Which would be hard anyway, since by and large the people in charge just go “la-la-la” whenever an inmate reports a rape… The issue is fairly well swept under the rug, inmates are left to fend for themselves. If they don’t go out of their way to get info about it, the average citizen probably doesn’t even know how bad it gets. But by that same token, \*because \*it’s one of those dirty little secrets, we don’t have a culture of “you going to jail ? Don’t drop the soap, huk huk huk !” jokes or “this guy is going to pound-me-in-the-ass-prison [and that’s a good thing]” memes at all, either. You tell me which is worse: knowing about it and not doing a thing ; or not even bothering to try and find out…☹ ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recreational-outrage-time-texas-jailers-run-a-rape-camp/661189/30 "2013-06-18T00:02:03Z")
I stand corrected. From the original article, it read as if the trial was ongoing, and I was only pointing out that they weren’t proven guilty yet. Now that they are; I’m more in favor of roasting them over a slow fire than I am 18 months in prison, unless that prison is predominantly stocked with people they put there while sheriff’s deputies. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recreational-outrage-time-texas-jailers-run-a-rape-camp/661189/31 "2013-06-18T01:36:01Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Speaking about here in France : yes and no. > > Prison conditions are abysmal here (not just between inmates & COs, but the food, the lodgings and so forth - IIRC Amnesty Int. rated French prisons as the worst in Europe . . . Not at _Papillon_-level, any more, I should hope. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recreational-outrage-time-texas-jailers-run-a-rape-camp/661189/32 "2013-06-18T01:39:01Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > . . . assaults and rapes are disturbingly common ; and sadly there’s no big hue and cry about it either. In fact, for the most part it’s just never mentioned at all in any news or media - and the government isn’t interested in even tracking stats about it. Which would be hard anyway, since by and large the people in charge just go “la-la-la” whenever an inmate reports a rape… The issue is fairly well swept under the rug, inmates are left to fend for themselves. Well, of course. They’re French, after all. They **like** it. ::d&r:: ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recreational-outrage-time-texas-jailers-run-a-rape-camp/661189/33 "2013-06-18T01:54:57Z")
Speaking for New York state prisons, we’re very much zero tolerance on any accusations of rape. Any rape accusation made by a prisoner against anyone - employee, visitor, or another prisoner - requires an automatic investigation by outside police agencies, a rape examination by outside medical staff, and passing on the accusation and all evidence and reports to the local DA. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recreational-outrage-time-texas-jailers-run-a-rape-camp/661189/34 "2013-06-18T02:37:40Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > And it took THREE YEARS to get into the news? 😕 When I saw the date on the article, I wondered if it was one of those troll-revived threads. > > It wouldn’t surprise me if Joe Arpaio’s doing this in Arizona. :mad: Joe Arpaio has had every progressive in the southwest crawling up his asshole with a magnifying glassfor the past ten years. It would be astonishing if something like this had escaped everybody’s notice. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recreational-outrage-time-texas-jailers-run-a-rape-camp/661189/35 "2013-06-18T03:34:00Z")
> [@toofs](#): > > Is it rape month? I missed the memo! Me, too. I thought February was Rape Month. I really hate these moveable feasts. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recreational-outrage-time-texas-jailers-run-a-rape-camp/661189/36 "2013-06-18T12:48:32Z")
Here, every month is rape month! ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recreational-outrage-time-texas-jailers-run-a-rape-camp/661189/37 "2013-06-18T14:12:10Z")
> [@BigAppleBucky](#): > > That prison rape is deemed routine in the USA is beyond horrible. It degrades our country. Except it really isn’t routine. Real life isn’t like the movies. Bad things happen in prison. No denying that. But its mostly just really boring. If you watch American prison movies you get the impression that dry anal rape is part of the orientation. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recreational-outrage-time-texas-jailers-run-a-rape-camp/661189/38 "2013-06-18T14:54:32Z")
The thread has already reached a verdict based on the petitioner’s pleadings. The guards were originally arrested for sexual assault but that’s not what they were convicted of. From EC’s link: > [@](#): > > According to a June 2012 article in the Beeville Bee-Picayune, the three defendants originally pleaded guilty to multiple charges of improper sexual activity with a person in custody, but ultimately their counts were reduced to only two apiece. Smith and Aguilar were both sentenced last year to 18 months in prison, with Charles receiving only a one year sentence. “Improper sexual activity with a person in custody” is not sexual assault. It’s when staff illegally has sex with an inmate. For whatever reason, the guards were convicted of having sex with the women, but not of of raping them. For the sake of argument let’s assume that the guards actuallly did sexually assault the women. That’s horrible, but it doesn’t neccessarily equal “rape camp.” For the plaintiffs to recover they have to prove not only that sexual assault occurred, but that there was a nexus between the guards actions and the jail’s policy and procedure, such that the jail had actual or constructive knowledge of it. If the plaintiffs simply claimed that they were sexually assaulted, they can’t recover if those sexual assaults were unknown to and unpreventable by the higher ups at the jail. Allegations that the sexual assaults were widespread, well known, facilitated by poor security procedures, etc. are necessary to recover, and the plaintiffs have a pecuniary interest in making the claim. That doesn’t mean it isn’t true, but it means that the evidence should be examined before declaring it to be so. So the plaintiffs in this case (1) may have had consensual sex with these guards and are now fraudulently suing the county, (2) may have been seuxally assaulted by these guards but are exaggerating the county’s culpability, or (3) may be telling the God’s honest truth in every respect about the “rape camp,” but there’s no way to know which one just by reading the news. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recreational-outrage-time-texas-jailers-run-a-rape-camp/661189/39 "2013-06-18T16:46:17Z")
> [@pravnik](#): > > So the plaintiffs in this case (1) may have had consensual sex with these guards and are now fraudulently suing the county Yeah, sure, right. Because there’s no abuse of power involved in guards having sex with inmates. In many states guards having sex with inmates is considered defacto rape. I’m betting in Texas, it’s not considered rape, because, you know … Texas. But most reasonable people would say that the power relationship between guards and inmates is such that there’s a presumption of rape in any guard/prisoner sex. ---
**Author:** ![babygoat666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2acd7d/32.png) [@babygoat666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/babygoat666)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2013, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recreational-outrage-time-texas-jailers-run-a-rape-camp/661189/40 "2013-06-18T16:55:23Z")
> [@pravnik](#): > > The thread has already reached a verdict based on the petitioner’s pleadings. > > The guards were originally arrested for sexual assault but that’s not what they were convicted of. From EC’s link: > > “Improper sexual activity with a person in custody” is not sexual assault. It’s when staff illegally has sex with an inmate. For whatever reason, the guards were convicted of having sex with the women, but not of of raping them. > > For the sake of argument let’s assume that the guards actuallly did sexually assault the women. That’s horrible, but it doesn’t neccessarily equal “rape camp.” For the plaintiffs to recover they have to prove not only that sexual assault occurred, but that there was a nexus between the guards actions and the jail’s policy and procedure, such that the jail had actual or constructive knowledge of it. If the plaintiffs simply claimed that they were sexually assaulted, they can’t recover if those sexual assaults were unknown to and unpreventable by the higher ups at the jail. Allegations that the sexual assaults were widespread, well known, facilitated by poor security procedures, etc. are necessary to recover, and the plaintiffs have a pecuniary interest in making the claim. That doesn’t mean it isn’t true, but it means that the evidence should be examined before declaring it to be so. > > So the plaintiffs in this case (1) may have had consensual sex with these guards and are now fraudulently suing the county, (2) may have been seuxally assaulted by these guards but are exaggerating the county’s culpability, or (3) may be telling the God’s honest truth in every respect about the “rape camp,” but there’s no way to know which one just by reading the news. Why did you put the most laughably unrealistic scenario as (1)? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recreational-outrage-time-texas-jailers-run-a-rape-camp/661189.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/recreational-outrage-time-texas-jailers-run-a-rape-camp/661189.md?page=3)