# "Red Pill" warning in GD **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [August 14, 2018, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-pill-warning-in-gd/819588 "2018-08-14T13:03:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2018, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-pill-warning-in-gd/819588/101 "2018-08-16T22:35:12Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I don’t think the distinction is particularly important. It’s white supremacist pseudo-science, either way. And it’s racist either way. It should be okay to say both of those things (and when describing the argument alone, I think it actually is). What’s the difference between “Blacks are stupid” and “Blacks are innately intellectually inferior”? Surely you don’t think “blacks are stupid” is allowed by the rules, do you? At a minimum, it would be saying that poster here, who happen to be black, are stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2018, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-pill-warning-in-gd/819588/102 "2018-08-16T22:37:12Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Yes it does. Exactly the way if someone was calling Jews greedy, pointing out they’re an antisemite is all the argument needed. Or if they were calling gays degenerates, pointing out they’re a homophobe is all that really needs to be said. I don’t think any of those refutes an argument - they are simply namecalling. As an example, if someone advances the argument that poor people are poor because God wills it, I think that’s a pretty crappy attitude. I can go on about lack of evidence, counterfactuals, etc. to rebut the argument. But really, I think that’s a pretty assholic view. Should I be able to just call them an asshole? It doesn’t rebut anything in the same way calling someone an antisemite rebuts anything. It’s a label that describes a set of behaviors or actions, but it doesn’t address the substance of anything. > [@](#): > > Are you fucking kidding me? Of course there can. You’re the ones making the damn sanctions, you \*can \*make them whatever you like. Ok, allow me to clarify. It hurts the ability to be consistent. Sure we can say that calling people a racist is allowed, and then simultaneously moderate them for doing so, but I don’t think that’a good practice. > [@](#): > > But what do I know, I apparently think that name calling is something else than you -since something like “your entire continent is intellectually inferior” _isn’t_ name-calling in your book. I’d have to see it in context, but I’d be fine interceding if that were the statement. I could see some version of that being okay - like, are there differences in intelligence levels by region, Florida vs. California? I think that would be inane, but I think that type of question wouldn’t run afoul of the rules. If we extrapolate to other geographic comparisons, it’s a difference of degree, not of kind. > [@](#): > > Let’s get this clear - you think you can actually “advance debate” with racists? I think it’s possible. People who have held racist views have renounced them. I think more importantly there could be readers/lurkers who are swayed by persuasive arguments, or are dissuaded by poor arguments. Shouting down people with distasteful views doesn’t allow that to happen. > [@](#): > > But only the namecalling the GD mods have decided, on the behalf of posters of all backgrounds, counts as name calling, of course. Let’s just say that historically I’ve found that the mostly-White-American mod staff doesn’t exactly have a good handle on what may or may not be name calling. That’s the nature of moderation. When there is a judgment call, it’s the judgment of the moderation team that carries the day. Not that it matters, but whether the moderation staff is mostly white doesn’t seem to be relevant to whether something is namecalling or not. Is it your assertion that calling someone a racist is not a personal insult or name calling? It also shouldn’t matter one bit, but I’m not white. I have no problem moderating racism. Just the same with misogyny, or other hate speech. I think I am willing to let things play out a little bit to be sure. There are several posters who I am familiar with who have done enough to earn closer examination of all of their posts and for those I do so. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Bone, and other mods opposed to a change, do you really see assertions that black people are fundamentally intellectually inferior, as more conducive to debate than “you are racist for saying black people are fundamentally intellectually inferior”? > > That really, truly seems absolutely nuts to me. I’d have to see context, but I doubt I’d countenance an assertion that black people are fundamentally intellectually inferior. [See this as an example.](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20564277&postcount=21) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2018, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-pill-warning-in-gd/819588/103 "2018-08-16T22:38:44Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > What’s the difference between “Blacks are stupid” and “Blacks are innately intellectually inferior”? Surely you don’t think “blacks are stupid” is allowed by the rules, do you? At a minimum, it would be saying that poster here, who happen to be black, are stupid. _Am_ stupid. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2018, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-pill-warning-in-gd/819588/104 "2018-08-16T22:48:39Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I’d have to see context, but I doubt I’d countenance an assertion that black people are fundamentally intellectually inferior. [See this as an example.](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20564277&postcount=21) Wow. Talk about a target rich environment for a moderator! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2018, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-pill-warning-in-gd/819588/105 "2018-08-16T23:16:08Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > What’s the difference between “Blacks are stupid” and “Blacks are innately intellectually inferior”? Surely you don’t think “blacks are stupid” is allowed by the rules, do you? At a minimum, it would be saying that poster here, who happen to be black, are stupid. I don’t think there’s a difference, but from my memory, assertions of (or very similar to) “… inherently intellectually inferior” have been allowed in GD, while “blacks are stupid” (or “low iq” as per the thread Bone just linked) would not be. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2018, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-pill-warning-in-gd/819588/106 "2018-08-16T23:29:18Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I don’t think there’s a difference, but from my memory, assertions of (or very similar to) “… inherently intellectually inferior” have been allowed in GD, while “blacks are stupid” (or “low iq” as per the thread Bone just linked) would not be. I’m guessing that’s because you equate the two phrases I compared in post #99. They are not the same. It would be very odd if every population of humans had the exact same mean for “intelligence”, if we can even measure such a thing. But it’s not racist pseudoscience to debate that. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2018, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-pill-warning-in-gd/819588/107 "2018-08-16T23:49:58Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’m guessing that’s because you equate the two phrases I compared in post #99. They are not the same. > > It would be very odd if every population of humans had the exact same mean for “intelligence”, if we can even measure such a thing. But it’s not racist pseudoscience to debate that. Not inherently, but pretty much every proponent of this idea comes to the Dope with the same tired pseudoscience. It’s not like we have fresh and new debates on race and intelligence. It’s all the same old bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-pill-warning-in-gd/819588/108 "2018-08-17T00:36:17Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Not inherently, but pretty much every proponent of this idea comes to the Dope with the same tired pseudoscience. It’s not like we have fresh and new debates on race and intelligence. It’s all the same old bullshit. Then it’s easy to just refer them to the last time you tirelessly debated the topic and just ignore them afterwards. Maybe someone else wants to engage with them, though. If no one engages with them, the thread drops off the radar. I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect the mods to save us from ourselves. And if we start closing thread because “we’ve done this before”, we won’t have many threads here at all. Maybe we can just start numbering our responses. “Oh yeah? Well I have #6 to say about that!” 😉 ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-pill-warning-in-gd/819588/109 "2018-08-17T01:00:54Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Then it’s easy to just refer them to the last time you tirelessly debated the topic and just ignore them afterwards. Maybe someone else wants to engage with them, though. If no one engages with them, the thread drops off the radar. I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect the mods to save us from ourselves. > > And if we start closing thread because “we’ve done this before”, we won’t have many threads here at all. Maybe we can just start numbering our responses. “Oh yeah? Well I have #6 to say about that!” 😉 And in the mean time we might be losing a lot of potential readers and posters of color who don’t want to join a community that tolerates their routine rhetorical denigration and dehumanization. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-pill-warning-in-gd/819588/110 "2018-08-17T01:14:19Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > And in the mean time we might be losing a lot of potential readers and posters of color who don’t want to join a community that tolerates their routine rhetorical denigration and dehumanization. I’d hardly characterize what we do here as “tolerate”. Posters like that are typically argued against, and argued against fiercely, and then Pitted where they are rhetorically tarred and feathered. We get those race realist threads maybe once or twice a year. Once in a blue moon we get a flurry of them. I don’t think significant numbers of people are turned away from this board by those threads, but if you have some data to show otherwise, I’d be open to changing my mind. Frankly, I’d be more concerned about the larger group of existing (and potential) posters who would be turned away from a site that is too cowardly to take on certain topics. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-pill-warning-in-gd/819588/111 "2018-08-17T01:17:44Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’d hardly characterize what we do here as “tolerate”. Posters like that are typically argued against, and argued against fiercely, and then Pitted where they are rhetorically tarred and feathered. > > We get those race realist threads maybe once or twice a year. Once in a blue moon we get a flurry of them. I don’t think significant numbers of people are turned away from this board by those threads, but if you have some data to show otherwise, I’d be open to changing my mind. Frankly, I’d be more concerned about the larger group of existing (and potential) posters who would be turned away from a site that is too cowardly to take on certain topics. I don’t have data - it’s just anecdotal. I’ve heard from other posters and other people in general that, considering all the shit they get or have gotten in their real lives, they want to join online communities that are welcoming to them, and that reject any hint of white supremacism. And I’d happily trade every “blacks are dumber” poster for a single one of them. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-pill-warning-in-gd/819588/112 "2018-08-17T01:39:05Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I don’t have data - it’s just anecdotal. I’ve heard from other posters and other people in general that, considering all the shit they get or have gotten in their real lives, they want to join online communities that are welcoming to them, and that reject any hint of white supremacism. And I’d happily trade every “blacks are dumber” poster for a single one of them. “Blacks are dumber” posters don’t last very long here. What you are describing sounds too much like the “safe spaces” provided by some college campuses today. I think a large number of posters here don’t want this place to become like that. We could do a poll, but it wouldn’t be scientific. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-pill-warning-in-gd/819588/113 "2018-08-17T01:41:53Z")
It is interesting to compare this to the other thread, where a clearly racist comment was made but no warning. In both cases the Mods have said it wasn’t the post, it was the history, thereby admitting warnings are pretty much arbitrary & capricious. ---
**Author:** ![Clark\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c77e96/32.png) [@Clark\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clark_K)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-pill-warning-in-gd/819588/114 "2018-08-17T03:51:34Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > You’re a Moderator, **JC** , not Thought Police. Exactly ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-pill-warning-in-gd/819588/115 "2018-08-17T06:23:16Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Because it’s the only explanation that doesn’t require us to assume bad things about your moderation. FTR this is why I’m asking for input from other moderators. Because this series of events - warning me, missing the far more direct insult beneath (which I _did_ report, so he _definitely_ knew about it) until badgered about it here, missing just how fucked the thread had become by post 22 - is _so_ off-base that I feel like it reflects really poorly on him as a moderator. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-pill-warning-in-gd/819588/116 "2018-08-17T09:10:01Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > “Blacks are dumber” posters don’t last very long here. What you are describing sounds too much like the “safe spaces” provided by some college campuses today. I think a large number of posters here don’t want this place to become like that. We could do a poll, but it wouldn’t be scientific. I think a safe space is very different – far, far more than just “don’t spout white supremacist pseudo-science”. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-pill-warning-in-gd/819588/117 "2018-08-17T09:57:14Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > “Blacks are dumber” posters don’t last very long here. I can think of at least 3 who are still members in good standing. Or do you just mean that _specific_ phrasing. > [@](#): > > it wouldn’t be scientific. Much like their racism…_baddum-tish_ ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2018, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-pill-warning-in-gd/819588/118 "2018-08-17T13:20:17Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I can think of at least 3 who are still members in good standing. Or do you just mean that _specific_ phrasing. I meant that specific phrasing or something like it that referred to all blacks and wasn’t some statistical phrasing as I noted in post #99 of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2019, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-pill-warning-in-gd/819588/119 "2019-12-27T22:32:23Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > However, red pill is also a direct reference to the Matrix, and **Phil** ’s post was responding to another Matrix reference. I’m not a mod, but I was willing to overlook the other connotation since it was a direct response to a Matrix reference with another one. > > I’m not a moderator but I thought **BPC** ’s response was over the top and added nothing of value to a discussion about Carter Page. This is the correct analysis…To the “Red Pill” refers to metaphor where Neo chooses the “Red Pill” as opposed to the “Blue Pill” to become aware of what’s actually going on. To me this has nothing to do with groups that have co-opted the term for their own purposes. I was responding to a “Matrix” reference with a “Matrix” reference here’s the exchange… > [@Why did the FBI lie about Carter Page on the FISA warrent?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/22): > > There is no evidence. > [@Why did the FBI lie about Carter Page on the FISA warrent?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/23): > > There is also no spoon. > [@Why did the FBI lie about Carter Page on the FISA warrent?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/24): > > Try the Red Pill… > [@Why did the FBI lie about Carter Page on the FISA warrent?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/26): > > What, you mean the one that makes me a shitty, bitter, hateful misogynistic prick who happens to be totally wrong about everything all the time? > [@Why did the FBI lie about Carter Page on the FISA warrent?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/28): > > You don’t need a pill for that. Note that I got a warning for the last quote for making a personal insult. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2019, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-pill-warning-in-gd/819588/120 "2019-12-27T22:44:17Z")
You bumped a four and as half month old thread for this? Lol. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-pill-warning-in-gd/819588.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-pill-warning-in-gd/819588.md?page=7)