# Red Rover, Red Rover, send Rand Rover over **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 25, 2009, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739 "2009-03-25T15:22:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/241 "2009-03-26T18:29:52Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Not to go too meta here, but you know what’s incredibly annoying? Someone who hijacks a pitting to scold everyone else who posts in the threads. Consider this nice tall glass; I think you know what it contains. Especially on a really, REALLY bad whoosh. > [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Guin, why are you continuing to mischaracterize my position? Other posters are finally taking the time to understand what I am saying, but you persist in your pig headedness. What sort of mental illness would cause you to do this? Well, hey, how the hell would I know? You blame a woman when her landlord commits fraud, because she should have foreseen it, why wouldn’t you do so to someone else? Shouldn’t my father have foreseen that his boss was a crook? I hope nothing ever happens to your family, **Rand Rover**. Especially your daughter. Because god knows she’d never get any compassion or sympathy fromm you. “Billy gave you a black eye at school today? Well, you should have foreseen it, since he’s such a bully, and you simply should have been somewhere else.” Or your wife. “You say your purse was snatched? Well, you should have held on to it tigther.” You also say it makes you feel bad to give to charities, that you don’t believe in altruism. You also don’t believe in government assistance. So, what do you propose someone should do when they find themselves with say, cancer, and can’t afford treatment? Well, giving to charity isn’t a good thing-according to you-and heaven forbid someone ask the government for help-what is your solution? And don’t weasel out and tell me, “I didn’t say giving to charity was a bad thing!” Because if most people are misunderstanding your words-perhaps the problem isn’t on our end. **Shodan** , I don’t see **Sarafeena** , **Ivylass** , or **Airman Doors** getting Pitted and piled on so frequently. Why would that be? I mean, they’re obviously conservatives, so we must HATE them here, us Liberals. **Lemur866** , it has nothing to do with whether or not he feels sympathy. It has to do with him constantly making snide comments about people who go through misfortunes THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/242 "2009-03-26T18:39:33Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > **Shodan** , I don’t see **Sarafeena** , **Ivylass** , or **Airman Doors** getting Pitted and piled on so frequently. Why would that be? I mean, they’re obviously conservatives, so we must HATE them here, us Liberals. I feel obliged to point out the following: 1. that none of the three posters you mentioned post as frequently as **Shodan** , at least nowadays; 2. that **Airman Doors** has noted that he doesn’t consider himself a conservative; 3. that **ivylass** posts very rarely on political topics (except possibly in GD- I don’t go there anymore). ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/243 "2009-03-26T18:40:12Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > Rand Rover, a quick question before I call you a troll and diagnose you with the designated mental illness of the week. > > Is this your belief: A person can rent a house, but because it is a business agreement the possibility will always exist that the agreement could end at any time. The landlord could serve notice to evict because he wants to sell the house, because he wants to redevelop it, or because the landlord just plain doesnt like the person renting. > > In this case the agreement ended because the landlord had to foreclose, but the end result is the same. > > Is it your position that if we disregard the reason for the eviction, and focus on the fact that eviction was always possible, then you find it harder to have symphathy for the evictee, because this was always a possible outcome. > > If the risk of eviction is always possible in a rental agreement, why have symphathy for somebody who ended up getting evicted because they based their living arrangements on a rental agreement? > > Is that what you think? Well, I think there are some factual errors in your post (ie, leases typically don’t allow an at-will eviction), but the gist of what you are saying is right. It is always possible for the landlord to sell the house, in which case the lessee may be evicted unless the lessee has a right to remain in possession. Therefore,nothing bad or wrong or sympathy-inducing has occurred when the landlord sells and the lessee gets evicted (unless the lessee has a right to remain in possession). A foreclosure is just a type of sale. And again, the deposit is a separate issue. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/244 "2009-03-26T18:42:49Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Therefore,nothing bad or wrong or sympathy-inducing has occurred when the landlord sells and the lessee gets evicted (unless the lessee has a right to remain in possession). You don’t think that the landlord has a moral (if not legal) duty to inform the lessee of his/her plan to sell the leased property beforehand? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/245 "2009-03-26T18:50:04Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Well, hey, how the hell would I know? You blame a woman when her landlord commits fraud, because she should have foreseen it, why wouldn’t you do so to someone else? Shouldn’t my father have foreseen that his boss was a crook? > > I hope nothing ever happens to your family, **Rand Rover**. Especially your daughter. Because god knows she’d never get any compassion or sympathy fromm you. “Billy gave you a black eye at school today? Well, you should have foreseen it, since he’s such a bully, and you simply should have been somewhere else.” > > Or your wife. “You say your purse was snatched? Well, you should have held on to it tigther.” Guin, I have explained myself over and over in this thread and others. Your willful failure to attempt to understand what I am actually saying and your continued use of these blatant strawman tactics is really idiotic. Even other people that don’t like me must think you are an idiot at this point. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/246 "2009-03-26T18:53:10Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > there are any number of the Usual Suspects who would frantically, not to say fanatically, disagree that I was not a troll. The accusation is SOP for anyone with a minority opinion who gives as good as s/he gets. That from a guy who likes to call the President “Hussein” … ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/247 "2009-03-26T18:57:14Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > You don’t think that the landlord has a moral (if not legal) duty to inform the lessee of his/her plan to sell the leased property beforehand? If a duty isn’t enforcable in court then it doesn’t exist. Therefore, if local law allows evictions after a sale with no notice (and I doubt any do), the lesee should bargain for it. If they don’t, then tough shit if it happens. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/248 "2009-03-26T19:03:26Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Guin, I have explained myself over and over in this thread and others. Your willful failure to attempt to understand what I am actually saying and your continued use of these blatant strawman tactics is really idiotic. Even other people that don’t like me must think you are an idiot at this point. Better an idiot than a coldhearted SOB like you. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/249 "2009-03-26T19:03:30Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > If a duty isn’t enforcable in court then it doesn’t exist. Therefore, if local law allows evictions after a sale with no notice (and I doubt any do), the lesee should bargain for it. If they don’t, then tough shit if it happens. I’m trying really hard not to hope that a neighbor watches somebody rob your house and does nothing, but I fear this is a battle I may lose. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/250 "2009-03-26T19:08:51Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Well sure - the newspaper could print “So-and-so is black…” and you could ignore that too. This is a statement about race. The newspaper is printing a factual statement that is calling the race of the person to the reader’s attention. A fucking picture of a person is NOT a comment about race, it is a picture of a person. If a picture of a person makes YOU think about that person’s race, this is YOUR deal, not the paper trying to make race a part of the story. > [@Shodan](#): > > I prefer to draw inferences about **your** character from the apparent fact that I cannot disagree with you on an obvious matter of fact without you starting the process of calling me a racist. Where are you disagreeing with me? What obvious matter of fact? That the paper was making a statement about the woman’s race by printing a picture? Do you think that every time the Washington Post prints a picture of President Obama or Tiger Woods they are commenting on his race? A fucking picture of someone is not a comment on the race of that person unless the viewer of the picture makes it so, which you obviously do. I don’t necessarily think this makes makes you a racist, but you sure seem to be preoccupied with race! > [@Shodan](#): > > Which is fine - you’re entitled to your opinion, even if you are stupid. Especially since it makes it clear that I was exactly correct. Bad father, racist, troll, sociopath, etc. - no doubt you’ll think of something else later. It can be. One of my favorite parts is the bull limping back to the other side of the corrida with eight pins stuck in his neck, one horn broken off short, and blood leaking from his anus, and the other bulls tell him "Good job! You sure showed that matador who’s boss! For the record, I usually enjoy reading your posts and you have actually won me to your side on occasion, albeit rarely. Typically I think you have interesting, rational, viewpoint. Not a viewpoint that I can share, but one that I can at least understand. That said, in this case you are being a moron. Rand was the first person to bring race into the other thread. The newspaper, regardless of what you and Rand think, did not print her picture so that people would think: > [@this is just horrible \[tenant evicted after landlord loses property in foreclosure\]](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/this-is-just-horrible-tenant-evicted-after-landlord-loses-property-in-foreclosure/490664/16): > > Oh wait. I forgot to take into account that she’s black and rented the house for the children! I take it all back! Oh, my heart aches for this poor, poor, dear woman! Why, I have a couple of extra bedrooms! She and the children could live with me! She must be protected from her own decisions, for she is a female and is black and therefore does not know any better! Finally, I don’t call names or make up titles unless they are justified. Bite me asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/251 "2009-03-26T19:10:42Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I’m trying really hard not to hope that a neighbor watches somebody rob your house and does nothing, but I fear this is a battle I may lose. Why not go all the way tough guy and hope that someone watches my child drown and does nothing? Go ahead and hope all kinds of stuff, see if I care or it gets you anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/252 "2009-03-26T19:17:30Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Why not go all the way tough guy and hope that someone watches my child drown and does nothing? Possibly because your child is innocent, and will probably be horrified by your callousness when he/she grows up. Or maybe just because I’m too soft. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/253 "2009-03-26T19:37:38Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Other (idiot) posters have taken this same angle with me. Tell me, what do you think it means to take responsibility for other people’s opinions of me? How do you think that relates to what I’ve said about people taking responsibility for the outcomes in their lives? Because how you present yourself and your opinions has a direct and predictable relationship with the resulting opinions people have of you. It’s not a perfect correspondence – there will always be people who have irrational biases or imperfect judgment who thus perceive you unfairly. But as a general rule, if a group of people who have no reason to start out disliking you come to the near-universal conclusion that you’re a prick, there’s a good chance that it’s because you’re acting like a prick. This has _nothing_ to do with the opinions you hold, and everything to do with how and when you choose to present them. For example: say I am personally not physically attracted to people who are extremely overweight. I am not a bad person for having this preference. However, it would be very easy to be a douchebag simply by choosing to share it at inappropriate times. case 1: Heavy friend buys a new dress, asks me if I like it. I say “no, because you are very fat and nothing looks good on very fat people, in my opinion, because they are fundamentally unattractive”. Verdict: douchebag case 2: Heavy friend propositions me one night. I demure, and she presses the issue, asking me why I don’t want to get together. I tell her I’m simply not attracted to her. Verdict: not a douchebag Since you seem incapable of not being a douchebag, I know you’ll find a way to misunderstand this, but this is you in a nutshell. You consistently drop your obnoxious, judgmental little nuggets in threads with no purpose other than to dismiss someone’s problems with your opinion that someone’s misfortune was preventable and thus unworthy of sympathy or discussion, and then cry like a little bitch that everyone thinks you’re an asshole. Own the fact that this is a foreseeable outcome to your posts, and that by continuing to share your opinions in the manner that you do, you are choosing you look like a douche. > [@](#): > > Bonus question: I don’t like Obama. I think he’s a troll (which means, of course, someone whose opinions I disagree with). What should Obama do to take respsonsibility for this? Obama is responsible for holding views that are not universally popular. He, like most adults, recognize this and simply own the fact that some people are going to disagree with one’s views. Given that he presents his views in a non-douchey manner, that’s pretty much all he needs to do. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/254 "2009-03-26T20:01:36Z")
Well-said, **Giraffe**. Know what this reminds me of? Several months ago, when a lot of Republicans on the national stage were saying stupid, ridiculous, and offensive things. When called on it they whined “I thought liberals were supposed to be tolerant!” ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/255 "2009-03-26T20:34:28Z")
But when have I ever called the fat girl fat? I can think of a couple of times when the fat girl was bitching about stuff and I got on to her about bitching about that stuff, but I didn’t call her fat (metaphorically speaking). Also, I think that your implied premise that other posters have no reason tpo dislike me is false–they don’t like my political views. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/256 "2009-03-26T20:40:43Z")
Geez, dude, it’s been explained to you again and again and again, and you still don’t get it. That’s a special kind of denial right there. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/257 "2009-03-26T20:50:14Z")
**Rand** , I don’t dislike your political views, in fact I share many of them. And while I think Ayn was a little off the deep end, there are aspects of Objectism I strongly agree with. What I dislike is you. You are a bloviating boorish attention whore. I am sure many other people here would agree with me. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/258 "2009-03-26T20:50:15Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > I disagree with \*\*Shodan \*\*that minority opinion holders are automatically labeled trolls by the regulars here. There’s a matter of context, or style, or something. Here I must disagree with you and agree with **Shodan**. I’ve been called a troll. Repeatedly. I can’t think of anyone who has argued consistently for a conservsative viewpoint that hasn’t been accused of trollery. (Trollishness? Trolldom?) ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/259 "2009-03-26T20:55:00Z")
> [@L. G. Butts](#): > > Where are you disagreeing with me? What obvious matter of fact? That the paper was making a statement about the woman’s race by printing a picture? As I believe I pointed out before, it seems pretty obvious that a statement is pretty much synonymous with a comment. Saying someone is black (or Hispanic, or Asian, or white) is also the same thing as publishing a picture that shows them to be that race. “A picture is worth a thousand words” and all that. > [@](#): > > A fucking picture of someone is not a comment on the race of that person unless the viewer of the picture makes it so, which you obviously do. I don’t necessarily think this makes makes you a racist, but you sure seem to be preoccupied with race! Right, right - I’m preoccupied with race because I believe that printing a picture showing something about a subject is the same as saying the same thing about the subject, and you don’t (about race). It’s like the old joke - > [@](#): > > Guy goes to the psychiatrist, who shows him a series of ink blots. > > The guy looks at the first ink blot, and says, “That’s a man and a woman making love.” > > He looks at the second one, and says, “That’s a man, a woman, and a chicken making love.” > > He looks at the third, and says, “That two men, four women, a watermelon and eight goldfish making love.” > > The psychiatrist says, “Well, I can see your problem - you are obsessed with sex.” > > “I’m obsessed?” says the guy. “You’re the one with all the dirty pictures!” Have fun with your crusade against pornography. IYSWIM. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/260 "2009-03-26T21:00:25Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Here I must disagree with you and agree with **Shodan**. > > I’ve been called a troll. Repeatedly. > > I can’t think of anyone who has argued consistently for a conservsative viewpoint that hasn’t been accused of trollery. (Trollishness? Trolldom?) Whoever called you a Troll doesnt understand the term, at least IMHO. I’ve read many of your posts and while I think you are often wrong, I have only seen you be purposely inflammatory a couple of times over the years. I don’t think you, or **Sam Stone** , or even **Scylla** could be called trolls. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739.md?page=14)