# Red Rover, Red Rover, send Rand Rover over **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 25, 2009, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739 "2009-03-25T15:22:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![anu-la1979](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/47e85d/32.png) [@anu-la1979](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anu-la1979)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2009, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/361 "2009-03-27T22:54:37Z")
> [@Jodi](#): > > It hardly matters. The point was not the means by which he was Doping at work, but the fact that he’s Doping at work. I’m honestly not judging him for it, I do it myself, but . . . > > I’ve had his job. I had lots of work, which allowed me to meet my (grinding, soul-crushing, interminable) high billable hours. It also meant I wasn’t farting around on Teh Intarwebs, because I wasn’t falsifying my bills, which meant I was working my ass off. All the time. All the time. All the fucking time. This in turn meant when I went on vacay, I actually used my nice salary to aggressively vacation; I didn’t squat at home surfing the web. In this economy, in that position, if I didn’t have that level of work – well, I’d be a bit worried. Depending on my situation, maybe a lot worried. So I’m not saying he’s full of shit, because I wouldn’t know, but I think I detect a fundamental disconnect in whath he says and what he apparently does. > > Which, at the end of the day, is not my concern and really none of my business. Just be careful, is all I’m saying. If – huge IF – all is not as portrayed here – what a big shocker that would be! No one _ever_ exaggerates here! – then be a little careful, that’s all. Like I said, he can do with that advise whatever the hell he wants, including dismissing it out of hand. But that’s my piece and I’ve said it. The government lawyers on this board spend less time on the Dope than he does. And with that, I’m off. I’ve got a Board of Directors to recall. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2009, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/362 "2009-03-28T01:08:45Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I’m not sure what type of law you practice Jodi (I’d guess litigation based on the intellect you’ve demonstrated–that’s not a compliment BTW) . . . Ooh, burn! I, unlike you, do not insult my fellow lawyers. I think your job is boring as shit, but I don’t think it reflects on your intellect to hold it. > [@](#): > > . . . but my practice requires thought and reflection, not just hammering things out. Sometimes in a moment of reflection I’ll take the 5 minutes or less it takes to read new posts and respond. ROFL. 😛 As you’re thoughtfully reflecting on how to address your work problem, you cruise the Dope, huh? > [@](#): > > Also, sometimes I’m in line getting lunch or in the elevator or waiting for others to join a call, etc., so there are lots of times to dope without hurting my work performance. Dude, you don’t owe me an explanation, so you shouldn’t have to work so hard to come up with one. Thanks for the laugh, though. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2009, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/363 "2009-03-28T01:12:28Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > No, but I am not going to bother anymore. You have expressed that you have no sympathy or compassion for the woman in the article re her home loss, but you would have sympathy for some others whose situations in principle do not differ from hers. To most people, that makes you a dick; I contend that you probably are a dick, but that something might be wrong with your brain. You deny any mental illness; I correct you that I didn’t not claim that for you. > You contend that being without compassion is the same as not liking chocolate. It is not. I tried to demonstrate to you that conventional human behavior supports expressing compassion(we’ll start slow and not have you actually feel it for a while), but you are one of the stalwart and courageous, following Ms Rand’s teaching that being a dick is much better than being a person. I pointed out (again) that there may well be something wrong with your brain\*. You disagree. We have reached an impasse. Since I don’t make a habit of talking to walls, not even ones made out of Rearden Metal, I am moving on. > > \*IANAD, I am not diagnosing etc. How else to explain your lack of basic humanity over time? Why not answer his question? People were quick to accuse Rand of not answering theirs, or of only cherrypicking questions. ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2009, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/364 "2009-03-28T01:14:39Z")
> [@Jodi](#): > > Here’s what’s adjusting my opinion of you: The fact that at 10 o’clock last night, you were here, and at 9 o’clock and 10 o’clock this morning, you are here. > > I say the following in the nature of friendly advice, whether you take it or not. I don’t really know you. I hold your personal philosophy in basic contempt but, hey, the world spins the same speed even so, right? At the end of the day, I don’t give a good goddam what you think of me, and I’m confident the feeling is mutual. > > But I believe you’ve said you have a new baby, and I believe you’ve said you’re an associate at a firm doing tax law in New York. I may be wrong about the details, but the gist of what follows is the same: > > How’s life for a tax law associate in New York? Well, I’m confident that you’ll tell us it’s sunshine and lollipops, but lets look at the reality for large firms doing tax law in the City: > > [Latham & Watkins lays off 190 associates, 250 staff](http://abovethelaw.com/2009/02/latham_lays_off_440.php) > [Baker & McKenzie cuts 6 associates](http://www.legalweek.com/Articles/1195842/Bakers+announces+associate+layoffs+in+New+York.html). That was January. They’ve since made deep cuts in their London and Moscow offices, and rumor is they’re giving New York a second, harder look. > [Sidley Austin lays off 89 associates and 140 staff in its U.S. offices.](http://www.abovethelaw.com/2009/03/nationwide_layoff_watch_sidley.php) This is in addition to layoffs in London and, again, it is suspected more layoffs are coming. > [Cadwalader Wickersham lays off 131 lawyers](http://www.law.com/jsp/nylj/PubArticleNY.jsp?id=1202423379544). That’s as of last summer; again, more layoffs are feared. > > More [here](http://www.abajournal.com/news/bloody_thursday_4_major_law_firms_ax_attorneys_more_layoffs_at_others/), and [here](http://www.thelawyer.com/cgi-bin/item.cgi?id=136709), and [here](http://www.geeklawblog.com/2009/02/biglaw-layoffs-trends-dla-piper.html). > > Regardless of whether the axe has fallen, or will ever fall, in your personal woods or not – the axe is out there, big time, and if you’re half as smart as you seem to think you are, you know that. So what the hell are you doing dicking around on a message board at nine and ten in the morning on a work day? Not enough work to do? _Danger, Will Robinson!_ Or just confident they’re not tracking where you’re surfing? They very well could be, as you well know. When they’re out there looking for reasons to pull the trigger on associates, you’re an idiot to give them ammunition, even if you think your job is cast iron because you shit gold nuggets for the firm. People have been wrong about their personal value before, especially in hard times. > > And when you get home at night? You’ve got a baby and, I assume, a wife. You admit to not seeing as much of them as you would like, toiling hard worker that you are. So what the hell are you doing dicking around on a message board when you could be spending time with your family? > > There is not one thing that any person on this whole Board says that is going to make one iota’s worth of difference in your life. These types of arguments, where you get caught up in the euphoria of give-and-take, thrust-and-parry, the insults, the flamethrowing, the “winning” or the “losing” – they are entertaining bullshit and nothing more. I say this with all due respect: Based solely on what you have disclosed of your personal and professional life, you’ve got better things to do. Be careful with your time. Do not gamble with what you have. > > And before you accuse me of hypocrisy: I know nobody’s looking over my shoulder at work because I am Big Brother in my world. I’m the monitor, not the monitored. And my cocker spaniels doesn’t give a shit what I do at home. Could somebody explain what this has to do with…well…anything? Seriously? ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2009, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/365 "2009-03-28T01:23:29Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > Could somebody explain what this has to do with…well…anything? > > Seriously? Seriously? He is an associate practicing tax law at a large law firm in New York. (I believe; not to misrepresent or anything, but that’s what I seem to recall.) He spends a certain amount of his time at work posting to the Dope. In the current economy and the current atmosphere for legal associates in large law firms, I suggest that bullshitting with people in threads such as this may not be the wisest use of his work time. He is also (I seem to recall) a new father, with a baby and wife at home who, by his own representation, he doesn’t get to see enough of because he is working so hard at the office. Again, I suggest that under those circumstances, bullshiting with people in threads such as this may not be the wisest use of his home time. That’s pretty much it. Let me know if you’re still confused. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2009, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/366 "2009-03-28T01:41:23Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > Why not answer his question? People were quick to accuse Rand of not answering theirs, or of only cherrypicking questions. Yep. eleanorigby has shown her true stripes in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2009, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/367 "2009-03-28T01:43:59Z")
> [@Jodi](#): > > Seriously? He is an associate practicing tax law at a large law firm in New York. (I believe; not to misrepresent or anything, but that’s what I seem to recall.) He spends a certain amount of his time at work posting to the Dope. In the current economy and the current atmosphere for legal associates in large law firms, I suggest that bullshitting with people in threads such as this may not be the wisest use of his work time. He is also (I seem to recall) a new father, with a baby and wife at home who, by his own representation, he doesn’t get to see enough of because he is working so hard at the office. Again, I suggest that under those circumstances, bullshiting with people in threads such as this may not be the wisest use of his home time. > > That’s pretty much it. Let me know if you’re still confused. More :rolleyes: from the new :rolleyes: master. One would think you are just jealous of me as you toil away at Dumbshit and Nobody LLP. BTW, I’m not in NY (would never live in that hellhole AAMOF). ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2009, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/368 "2009-03-28T01:59:42Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > Why not answer his question? I did answer his question. Here is the history: [QUOTE=eleanorigby] [QUOTE=Rand Rover] [QUOTE=eleanorigby] [QUOTE=Rand Rover] Let’s say that a person walks outside their house and is immediately abducted by an alien. The aliens return the person after performing horrible experiments (the ass is involved, naturally). I have sympathy for this person. The bad thing this person experienced was not a reasonably foreseeable consequence of their decision to leave their house. Also, the decision to leave their house isn’t a “business decision,” it’s an “everyday ordinary type of decision.” [/QUOTE] You have got to be kidding. What an insight into how your mind works. Thanks for that. It would take something impossible to elicit your “sympathy”–good to know. I also read your bolded “yeses” post. You don’t see the inherent contradiction present. I think (seriously) there is something wrong with your brain. Have you seen a doctor? [/QUOTE] I like chocolate ice cream. Do you? If not you are mentally ill. [/QUOTE] This makes no sense. I didn’t claim that you were mentally ill at all. I opined that there might be something wrong with your brain–not the same thing at all. Disliking chocolate is not equivalent to lacking empathy (or even sympathy) for your fellow man–the fact that you cannot see this makes me more certain that there is something wrong with your brain. [/QUOTE] And then this: [QUOTE= Rand Rover] This is ridiculous. Let’s say a survey is done. A situation is presented to 1000 people, and they are asked whether the situation should elicit empathy or sympathy. 51% of them say yes. Are you telling me that the other 49% necessarily have something wrong with their brains? What if 75% say yes? Do the other 25% necessarily have something wrong with their brains? What if 99% say yes? [/QUOTE] Call me crazy, but lacking empathy/sympathy for others (which is a human component) points to something perhaps (that would be the “might” in my posts) indicating something wrong with the brain. Disliking chocolate is just a personal preference; it does not equate to lack of sympathy or empathy at all-to think they do equate points to more bizarre thinking, IMO. See studies on sociopaths, psychopaths, anti-social personalities, some autistic persons, all of whom are said to lack empathy/sympathy to some degree. I am not saying that **RR** is or has any of these, I was speculating that perhaps he is UNABLE to feel conventional empathic feelings like most people. And yes, there have been studies done of people regarding situations that should elicit sympathy or empathy and those findings factor into diagnoses. I am not attempting to diagnosis **RR** in the slightest. His example of aliens (wtf?) was so extreme that it caught my attention. The rest followed. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2009, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/369 "2009-03-28T02:11:40Z")
You left out an exchange in there. The point you are not getting is this: You have an opinion about what should elicit sympathy. I have a different opinion. This does not mean I have something wrong with my brain. Just like it would not mean that you have something wrong with your brain if you disagree that chocolate ice cream is good. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2009, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/370 "2009-03-28T02:22:22Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > One would think you are just jealous of me as you toil away at Dumbshit and Nobody LLP. Jealous of what, exactly? You have a job that would bore the snot out of me; you work long hours and see as much of your daughter as the average divorced dad does; your idea of quality time with your family is to have them in the same room with you while you read, or watch TV, or surf; and you’re so hard up for human interaction – or so avoidant of it – that you’re balls-deep in your Blackberry while you’re at the elevator or in the lunch line. I have no problem with some good old-fashioned American envy, so if jealousy would give you that warm tingly feeling, I’m happy to display some, but you’ve got to help me out here. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2009, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/371 "2009-03-28T02:25:16Z")
eleanorigby, I just thought of something that might get through to you. Do you agree that there are jokes that some people find funny and other people don’t? Do you think that the people that don’t find those jokes funny have something wrong with their brains? Similarly, just because there are some situations that you believe elicit sympathy and I believe do not elicit sympathy does not mean that there is something wrong with my brain. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2009, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/372 "2009-03-28T02:26:39Z")
> [@Jodi](#): > > Jealous of what, exactly? You have a job that would bore the snot out of me; you work long hours and see as much of your daughter as the average divorced dad does; your idea of quality time with your family is to have them in the same room with you while you read, or watch TV, or surf; and you’re so hard up for human interaction – or so avoidant of it – that you’re balls-deep in your Blackberry while you’re at the elevator or in the lunch line. > > I have no problem with some good old-fashioned American envy, so if jealousy would give you that warm tingly feeling, I’m happy to display some, but you’ve got to help me out here. I’ve risen far higher in the same field you work in than you ever will. And it just eats you up. It’s sad really. Just be happy being the best you you can be Jodi, and I’ll do the same. Don’t be so angry at yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2009, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/373 "2009-03-28T02:29:15Z")
> [@Jodi](#): > > Seriously? He is an associate practicing tax law at a large law firm in New York. (I believe; not to misrepresent or anything, but that’s what I seem to recall.) He spends a certain amount of his time at work posting to the Dope. In the current economy and the current atmosphere for legal associates in large law firms, I suggest that bullshitting with people in threads such as this may not be the wisest use of his work time. He is also (I seem to recall) a new father, with a baby and wife at home who, by his own representation, he doesn’t get to see enough of because he is working so hard at the office. Again, I suggest that under those circumstances, bullshiting with people in threads such as this may not be the wisest use of his home time. > > That’s pretty much it. Let me know if you’re still confused. That and IIRC, he’s bragged to us (more than once) about how secure he is in his job, and how much in demand he is. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2009, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/374 "2009-03-28T02:30:21Z")
OK, after the last post, I would like to officially announce that I’ve had a couple of sodey pops. Gonna need some grains of salt here, people. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2009, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/375 "2009-03-28T02:33:58Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > That and IIRC, he’s bragged to us (more than once) about how secure he is in his job, and how much in demand he is. Guin, I didn’t think it was possible to actually hear someone getting fatter over the internet until I met you. Now isn’t there a ho-ho trying to escape the kitchen that you should look into? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2009, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/376 "2009-03-28T02:35:18Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Guin, I didn’t think it was possible to actually hear someone getting fatter over the internet until I met you. Now isn’t there a ho-ho trying to escape the kitchen that you should look into? I thought it was up your ass? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2009, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/377 "2009-03-28T02:43:14Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I thought it was up your ass? Not like that would stop you, chubster. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2009, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/378 "2009-03-28T02:50:21Z")
Hey-I’M not the one who spends my time at work posting surfing the web. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2009, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/379 "2009-03-28T02:53:29Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I’ve risen far higher in the same field you work in than you ever will. And it just eats you up. See, the obvious problem with professional status as even a theoretical basis for jealousy, is that I don’t actually know where you are, or think you are, on whatever yardstick you use for professional measurement, nor do you know what I do, where I am professionally speaking, or what yardstick _I’m_ using. Therefore, jealousy is not really possible. Are you Atticus Finch or Denny Crane? Because then I’m jealous. Or are you just some guy with a law job? I can’t be jealous without more data. I mean, I could _try_: Can I imagine you do a good deal of _pro bono_ work? Now, don’t laugh; we both know _that’s_ not true, but it would help me out with the whole jealousy thing. So let’s say you work on absolutely fascinating tax questions – I’m reaching here, I can’t imagine any tax question being fascinating but work with me – you only have to bill 1200 hours a year, your firm let’s you do _pro bono_ on their dime, _and_ the magical coffee shop with perfect lattes and free fat-free scones is in the lobby of your building. And after the day I’ve had, let’s also say you don’t have to fire people for doing criminally stupid things. Bingo! I’m jealous. Without that, not so much. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2009, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/380 "2009-03-28T03:02:40Z")
**Rand Rover** - quick question: Is there anyone here at the SDMB whom you either like or respect? No need for naming specific individuals; I’m just asking generally. Thanks in advance. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739.md?page=20)