# Red Rover, Red Rover, send Rand Rover over **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 25, 2009, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739 "2009-03-25T15:22:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/461 "2009-03-30T23:46:14Z")
> [@Algorithm](#): > > There’s never a wrong time. Maybe if you’re at the funeral of a guy who got fucked to death by a horse. At the very least, you should try to keep it tasteful. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/462 "2009-03-30T23:59:37Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Yes, but sexual misconduct that is against the law, not an easy thing to achieve in the Golden State, falls into the category of moral turpitude. It was only recently that Schwarzenegger signed a law prohibiting necrophilia. So having sex with Jodi would now be moral turpitude. I kid you not. You really are a dick, you know that? ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/463 "2009-03-31T00:15:52Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > You know, I never ask for apologies for myself, as I find it to be vain (in the sense of the word as used in Ecclesiastes), arrogant, and narcissistic. But I’m going to ask you to apologize to **jodi**. That was simply uncalled for, even in the Pit. > > IMHO. :mad: Thank you, oh **dad of kayla** , but it was I who erred. Having intentionally stayed out of the “what speech is bad enough?” brouhaha, I haven’t bothered to keep track of, much less absorb, the new Pit rules. Thus, I find I have once again transgressed those rules and run the risks of exasperating the mods. I did not do it intentionally (transgress, that is) and, though it undoubtedly would be deserved, I haven’t had my hand slapped, been warned or even “noted”. Mods, feel free to spank as deemed appropriate now; I do pledge to do better in future. But for the above reason I am very much vested in not demanding an apology from **Sam Stone** , because I have no intention of offering him one unless directed to – and then the value of it would be, I hope, self-evident. Besides, I didn’t find the comment so much insulting as odd. Apparently, I am fuckable – thanks! – but also dead. Yet still here, so . . . a vampire, perhaps? How else to account for my mad undead typing skillz? > [@](#): > > One of my first .sig lines was an egregious swat at the legal profession (although hilarious in its original context). I dropped it, entirely on account of the fact that jodi, who had shown herself to be eminently worthy of my respect, indicated how much it bothered her to constantly be barraged by lawyer jokes that tend to dehumanize members of her profession. Now you _must_ post the sig. Please. I’m hoping it is so tasteless and egregious that it justifies as humorless as response as I apparently gave you at the time. Seriously, please share it. I will remember I asked for it. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/464 "2009-03-31T00:31:41Z")
> [@Jodi](#): > > But for the above reason I am very much vested in not demanding an apology from **Sam Stone** , … Please don’t mix up **The Second Stone** with **Sam Stone** , who - despite his sadly mistaken political beliefs - I’ve never seen say anything like the former did. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/465 "2009-03-31T00:34:18Z")
> [@Jodi](#): > > Thank you, oh **dad of kayla** , but it was I who erred. Having intentionally stayed out of the “what speech is bad enough?” brouhaha, I haven’t bothered to keep track of, much less absorb, the new Pit rules. Thus, I find I have once again transgressed those rules and run the risks of exasperating the mods. I did not do it intentionally (transgress, that is) and, though it undoubtedly would be deserved, I haven’t had my hand slapped, been warned or even “noted”. Mods, feel free to spank as deemed appropriate now; I do pledge to do better in future. > > But for the above reason I am very much vested in not demanding an apology from **Sam Stone** , because I have no intention of offering him one unless directed to – and then the value of it would be, I hope, self-evident. Besides, I didn’t find the comment so much insulting as odd. Apparently, I am fuckable – thanks! – but also dead. Yet still here, so . . . a vampire, perhaps? How else to account for my mad undead typing skillz? > > Now you _must_ post the sig. Please. I’m hoping it is so tasteless and egregious that it justifies as humorless as response as I apparently gave you at the time. Seriously, please share it. I will remember I asked for it. **Sam**? **Second**? I think your the bees knees, no shit, but it wasn’t **Sam** (I don’t think). ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/466 "2009-03-31T00:57:46Z")
Well christ. I guess the “you are troll under your own definition” response was inevitable. I’ll wade into this morass for one post. After this post, I am done with this topic (too many of these things go 'round and 'round). > [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > That’s a pretty tough definition to work with since it relies so much on motivation, but we’ll go with it. Right, I think a troll is a troll based on their motivation. A liar is a liar based on their motivation. See also, murderer, thief, etc. and etc. Every criminal court in the country deals with issues of motivation on a day-to-day basis. Note: one can infer motivation from conduct, so the lines between the objective and subjective natures of the analysis get blurred. > [@](#): > > Reading your statement backwards, someone who is not a troll is someone who: > > 1. is interested in honest debate and > 2. posts for other reasons besides stirring up shit for his own amusement. > > As to point 1., which part of honest debate do these statements fall under (besides the ad hom and hyperbole parts which are fallacies, of course)? At no time did I say that I think someone must “engage in honest debate” in every post or they are a troll. Rather, my definition was looking at the overall motivation for the person’s participation in the forum. All of those posts were made in the Pit, which is a forum dedictated to snarking it up and calling people shitheads (but NOT cunts, oddly). > [@](#): > > As to point 2., you give this as explanation: > > but that’s not the definition you gave in the paragraph above it. > But just to clarify, are you saying that you never post things to stir up shit and you never post for the amusement of seeing people’s reactions to your posts? Well, my definition of a troll is a person who posts ONLY to stir shit up (i.e., their entire motivation for going to the forum is to stir shit up). that doesn’t describe me. Some of my posts were posted just for the purpose of stirring shit up (such as my meltdown in the last RR-bashing thread), but that’s not my whole reason for being here (believe me, if it were, I could do a better job than I’m doing now). > [@](#): > > I think you qualify as a troll under your own definition. I disagree. I am not here only to stir shit up. > [@](#): > > But I think you’re an amusing troll. You’ve been consistently entertaining in most of your Pit threads, and I do agree with your underlying arguments. So my hats off to you. I think you’re doing a good job. Thanks, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/467 "2009-03-31T01:37:37Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Please don’t mix up **The Second Stone** with **Sam Stone** , who - despite his sadly mistaken political beliefs - I’ve never seen say anything like the former did. Sorry, **Sam!** ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/468 "2009-03-31T02:32:46Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > You know, I never ask for apologies for myself, as I find it to be vain (in the sense of the word as used in Ecclesiastes), arrogant, and narcissistic. But I’m going to ask you to apologize to **jodi**. That was simply uncalled for, even in the Pit. > > IMHO. :mad: It is suggested that certain lawyers who feel free to tell people “fuck you” can apply suction to the reproductive organs of the horses they mention in the same breath. I don’t like lawyers or the legal system in general precisely because so many of them are more about telling people “fuck you” than seeing that the right thing is done. Well, I think the legal profession richly deserves the reputation that it has with the public and the bench isn’t any better. The legal process has the financial well being of a family at stake for about 10 years minimum and sometimes for generations every time civilians get into the system in any kind of case. The bar and the bench do everything they can to suck every dime out of every litigant and distribute that money to the lampreys that hang on the Court system. And a lawyer demands that I not show my disrespect for the profession in general. Get real. The awful thing about lawyer jokes is that they are not jokes, they are expressions of anger, loss and hatred from things that really happen. If Jodi decides that I meant the remark, which I did not intend as a joke at all, to be about her, then she deserves to have her feelings hurt and I take gratification from her wounded feelings. I was aiming for sanctimonious asshole lawyers who think the profession reaches the high standards it purports to have. If Jodi thinks all lawyer jokes are about her, there is probably a reason for it. I don’t think of lawyers as a protected class. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/469 "2009-03-31T02:56:43Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > It is suggested that certain lawyers who feel free to tell people “fuck you” can apply suction to the reproductive organs of the horses they mention in the same breath. I don’t like lawyers or the legal system in general precisely because so many of them are more about telling people “fuck you” than seeing that the right thing is done. Well, I think the legal profession richly deserves the reputation that it has with the public and the bench isn’t any better. The legal process has the financial well being of a family at stake for about 10 years minimum and sometimes for generations every time civilians get into the system in any kind of case. The bar and the bench do everything they can to suck every dime out of every litigant and distribute that money to the lampreys that hang on the Court system. And a lawyer demands that I not show my disrespect for the profession in general. Get real. The awful thing about lawyer jokes is that they are not jokes, they are expressions of anger, loss and hatred from things that really happen. > > If Jodi decides that I meant the remark, which I did not intend as a joke at all, to be about her, then she deserves to have her feelings hurt and I take gratification from her wounded feelings. I was aiming for sanctimonious asshole lawyers who think the profession reaches the high standards it purports to have. If Jodi thinks all lawyer jokes are about her, there is probably a reason for it. I don’t think of lawyers as a protected class. OK, classic case of “guy who went through a bad divorce.” Amirite? ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/470 "2009-03-31T03:20:55Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > If Jodi decides that I meant the remark, which I did not intend as a joke at all, to be about her, then she deserves to have her feelings hurt and I take gratification from her wounded feelings. I was aiming for sanctimonious asshole lawyers who think the profession reaches the high standards it purports to have. If Jodi thinks all lawyer jokes are about her, there is probably a reason for it. I don’t think of lawyers as a protected class. Um, this is your post #444 (bolding mine): > [@The Second Stone](#): > > Yes, but sexual misconduct that is against the law, not an easy thing to achieve in the Golden State, falls into the category of moral turpitude. It was only recently that Schwarzenegger signed a law prohibiting necrophilia. **So having sex with Jodi would now be moral turpitude.** I kid you not. Clearly Jodi would have to believe that you meant the remark, likening sex with her to necrophilia, to be about her. I don’t see how you can claim otherwise, nor claim that she thinks all lawyer jokes about her, nor that she deserved that rather disgusting comment from you. Way over the top, man. A decent person would admit wrongdoing and apologize. But hey, it’s your call. You’ve managed to derail a thread about what an asshole Rand Rover is onto what an asshole you are. Good show! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/471 "2009-03-31T03:23:35Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > OK, classic case of “guy who went through a bad divorce.” Amirite? Geez, you got one guess and you got it wrong. Never been married. If there is anything I’ve learned from slumming for my friends, it is don’t get married. No, wait, I learned that from my parents, still fighting in wedded bliss after 51 years. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/472 "2009-03-31T03:29:46Z")
Is it wrong that I suddenly want to have sex with **Jodi**? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/473 "2009-03-31T03:34:49Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > Um, this is your post #444 (bolding mine): > > Clearly Jodi would have to believe that you meant the remark, likening sex with her to necrophilia, to be about her. I don’t see how you can claim otherwise, nor claim that she thinks all lawyer jokes about her, nor that she deserved that rather disgusting comment from you. Way over the top, man. A decent person would admit wrongdoing and apologize. But hey, it’s your call. You’ve managed to derail a thread about what an asshole Rand Rover is onto what an asshole you are. Good show! No, Jodi told me personally: “fuck you”. Having taken offense at my comment that wasn’t directed to her but rather the profession in general, I realize now that she is one of those lawyers I was referring to, because her post pointed it out to me. Before that I knew she was a lawyer, but not the kind of lawyer who took offense to lawyer jokes because she recognized herself in them. And I won’t apologize for her decision to get up close and personal with me. Wassa matter, can’t a felatrix of equines finish the fights she picks? Does she really need her sock puppet posse of faux feminists to do it for her. Honestly, she wants the donkey dingus to herself. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/474 "2009-03-31T03:36:55Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > No, Jodi told me personally: “fuck you”. Having taken offense at my comment that wasn’t directed to her but rather the profession in general, I realize now that she is one of those lawyers I was referring to, because her post pointed it out to me. Before that I knew she was a lawyer, but not the kind of lawyer who took offense to lawyer jokes because she recognized herself in them. And I won’t apologize for her decision to get up close and personal with me. Wassa matter, can’t a felatrix of equines finish the fights she picks? Does she really need her sock puppet posse of faux feminists to do it for her. Honestly, she wants the donkey dingus to herself. Are you high? ---
**Author:** ![ivn1188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/475 "2009-03-31T03:37:37Z")
Your complaints about lawyers are oddly specific and vitriolic. You have the classic “I got screwed by the system” narcissism, and you sound quite angry. But you’re being a blowhard. 99% of cases never go to trial. Most lawyers don’t litigate on a regular basis. A lot of work is non-adversarial, such as making contracts or providing compliance advice. When you talk about 10 years mimumums and civilians getting into the case (wtf) it’s pretty much a sign that you’re a fucking crank. But god forbid a lawyer says fuck you, especially after you start with character assassination, say that fucking them would be necrophilia (By the way, if fuck off and die is a death threat, your necrophilia comment might be crossing the line as well), and then finish off by telling them to blow a stallion, you might be giving the impression that you are a crazy, frothing fruitbat who’s taken a swan dive off the deep end. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/476 "2009-03-31T03:37:49Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Does she really need her sock puppet posse of faux feminists to do it for her. I’m a sock puppet faux feminist now? You’re the one making necrophilia jokes here, buddy. One doesn’t have to be a feminist OR a sock puppet to think that’s a bit much escalation from a simple “fuck you,” but OK. You’re on your own here. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/477 "2009-03-31T03:37:52Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Is it wrong that I suddenly want to have sex with **Jodi**? No, not at all. Only certain women have a hallway wide enough for full sized egress of your Really Bright Boner. If the glove fits, you can’t aquits. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/478 "2009-03-31T03:39:30Z")
> [@ivn1188](#): > > By the way, if fuck off and die is a death threat, your necrophilia comment might be crossing the line as well Well, as I understand it, he’s not telling anyone to fuck off and die. He’s telling them to die off and fuck. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/479 "2009-03-31T03:57:13Z")
> [@ivn1188](#): > > Your complaints about lawyers are oddly specific and vitriolic. You have the classic “I got screwed by the system” narcissism, and you sound quite angry. > > But you’re being a blowhard. 99% of cases never go to trial. Most lawyers don’t litigate on a regular basis. A lot of work is non-adversarial, such as making contracts or providing compliance advice. > > When you talk about 10 years mimumums and civilians getting into the case (wtf) it’s pretty much a sign that you’re a fucking crank. But god forbid a lawyer says fuck you, especially after you start with character assassination, say that fucking them would be necrophilia (By the way, if fuck off and die is a death threat, your necrophilia comment might be crossing the line as well), and then finish off by telling them to blow a stallion, you might be giving the impression that you are a crazy, frothing fruitbat who’s taken a swan dive off the deep end. Oh, who are you now, Detective Ivn? 99 percent of cases never go to trial? [http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/stories/2004/05/31/newscolumn5.html](http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/stories/2004/05/31/newscolumn5.html) will give you a more accurate estimate of 97 percent. That’s not a big difference if you are the one getting screwed in those extra 2 out of 100, but it is if you are. I did not start assassinating Jodi’s character. I slammed lawyers in general. Jodi took it personally. She started the trash talk, and now her friends say she can’t take it in return. Even though she offered to “do the horse” of her own volition. No self respecting lawyer would need friends like you to come rushing in and save her. She can take it. FTR I did not say “fuck off and die”, as you falsely accuse me of. That’s not allowed, even in the Pit. I suggested that Jodi is so frigid and humorless that it would be like screwing a corpse. It’s called an insult. I did not wish ill upon her. I am pleased that you at least understand that I offered insult in return. And you are very close, I am a silly schizo swan, frothing through the fruit bowl of life. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/480 "2009-03-31T04:18:10Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > No, not at all. Only certain women have a hallway wide enough for full sized egress of your Really Bright Boner. If the glove fits, you can’t aquits. Well, I’m sure every woman would feel like a hallway to you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739.md?page=25)