# Red Rover, Red Rover, send Rand Rover over **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 25, 2009, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739 "2009-03-25T15:22:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2009, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/121 "2009-03-25T22:36:57Z")
> [@ivn1188](#): > > Everyone should take Bricker’s example, and logically address the points made. Except do it with a bit of fucking panache, a touch of vitriol, and some rhetorical flourish, blended with a dash of humor, and get busy entertaining the rest of us while you spew your masturbatory recriminations across the thread like an aging underendowed porn star trying to stay in the biz long enough to make it to the bigtime. > > I mean, for Christ’s sake, if you can’t take apart the philosophy of Ayn Rand with a few logical observations, you need more help (consensus?) than is available here.[/SIZE] Why not lead by example? Even as a guest, you are afforded the same right to express your cogent analysis as that granted to the posters you denigrate with strained analogies. Having blown your darts, now’s your turn to impress. Whenever you’re ready, please proceed. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2009, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/122 "2009-03-25T22:55:51Z")
I think these days “compassion” means says the appropriate words at the appropriate time while being careful not to hurt people’s feelings with what one says. I couldn’t care less about that. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2009, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/123 "2009-03-25T22:59:21Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Sociopathy is no longer a DSM IV diagnosis (at least that is my understanding), but narcissistic personality disorder is. Such a dx can only be correctly made by a qualified mental health care provider in the correct setting. Then why did you diagnose Ayn Rand as a sociopath? Look people, Ayn Rand was something of a crank with a decidedly idiosyncratic world view. The thing people have to remember is that at a young age she saw her country torn apart by a vicious dictatorship, all under the banner of unselfishness and altruism. And she escaped but at the cost of permanent isolation from her family and friends. It doesn’t take a Freud to connect a few dots. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2009, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/124 "2009-03-25T23:14:25Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Then why did you diagnose Ayn Rand as a sociopath? He (she?) didn’t. TSS said that perhaps Ayn had Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I was the one who asked if Ayn qualified as a psychopath or sociopath ,given the statement quoted by someone else. > [@Scylla](#): > > I think these days “compassion” means says the appropriate words at the appropriate time while being careful not to hurt people’s feelings with what one says. > > I couldn’t care less about that. Seriously? You don’t care about hurting feelings–not of your wife, or kids or coworkers? And here I thought we had come to some accord. I had thought you a decent human being in the AIG thread. Won’t be the last time I’m misled. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2009, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/125 "2009-03-25T23:23:11Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > He (she?) didn’t. TSS said that perhaps Ayn had Narcissistic Personality Disorder. I was the one who asked if Ayn qualified as a psychopath or sociopath ,given the statement quoted by someone else. Yes he did: > [@The Second Stone](#): > > Ayn Rand was a sociopath who pretended to be a philosopher… ---
**Author:** ![ivn1188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2009, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/126 "2009-03-25T23:26:31Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Why not lead by example? Even as a guest, you are afforded the same right to express your cogent analysis as that granted to the posters you denigrate with strained analogies. > > Having blown your darts, now’s your turn to impress. Whenever you’re ready, please proceed. You must have missed the part of my post where I was doing just that. Next time PM me and I will give you the Cliff’s notes. Also, why are you bringing class issues into this? Why must you make digs at me based on some perceived social status advantage? I feel a bit oppressed by your crass implication that since I don’t have a “Charter Member” tag, I am some Johnny Come Lately that you graciously allow on the board so you can pat me on the head and say “That was just dandy, but now run along and let the big people play”. Maybe you should show a little empathy for those less fortunate than yourself, instead of just structuring the discourse to your advantage. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2009, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/127 "2009-03-25T23:32:13Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Yes he did: But then he went on to correct that statement later in his post. It’s called thinking out loud–a favorite past-time on the Dope and especially in the Pit. Me, I’d say Ms Rand was misguided at best and foolish to boot. But she wrote good airport books. Her works are neither deep or significant to any lasting degree. At best she’s a footnote of minor interest for the time in which she wrote. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2009, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/128 "2009-03-25T23:32:25Z")
I think scylla is saying that compassion as defined here is all show and no go, and I agree with him if that’s what he means. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2009, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/129 "2009-03-25T23:33:31Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > My ads are for Skype and the HK 1 Hydrokinetic Wrench. > The word “hydrokinetic” was so cool I clicked on the link. Am I racist for originally reading that as “Hydrokinetic Wench”? ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2009, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/130 "2009-03-25T23:37:33Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I think scylla is saying that compassion as defined here is all show and no go, and I agree with him if that’s what he means. I am so glad neither of you is a nurse. Compassion as defined above is not all show and “no go”–you’re the one all about “no go”, feeling “bad” about giving to charity and all. What a mind! If you don’t care for _“the appropriate words at the appropriate time while being careful not to hurt people’s feelings with what one says.”_ I can only imagine what you might say to someone recently stricken with cancer or laid off or even evicted from their rental property. Oh, that’s right–those kind of people should have made better business deals. I forgot. What goes around, comes around. Someday it will be you, wanting the compassion of your fellow humans to abide with you. What do you think will be doled out to you? ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2009, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/131 "2009-03-25T23:38:37Z")
Rand Rover gets off on his belief that he is an uber rational tough guy. The more you comment on it, the faster his hand under the desk goes. This is (for obvious reasons) the first and last time I will provide him with masturbatory material by posting on this topic. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2009, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/132 "2009-03-25T23:39:35Z")
> [@5-4-Fighting](#): > > Am I racist for originally reading that as “Hydrokinetic Wench”? No sweetie–that’s sexist. Do try to keep your “ists” in order. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2009, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/133 "2009-03-25T23:43:57Z")
> [@ivn1188](#): > > Also, why are you bringing class issues into this? Why must you make digs at me based on some perceived social status advantage? I feel a bit oppressed by your crass implication that since I don’t have a “Charter Member” tag, I am some Johnny Come Lately that you graciously allow on the board so you can pat me on the head and say “That was just dandy, but now run along and let the big people play”. Is this a joke? No, seriously, is it? ---
**Author:** ![ivn1188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2009, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/134 "2009-03-25T23:45:49Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > What goes around, comes around. Someday it will be you, wanting the compassion of your fellow humans to abide with you. What do you think will be doled out to you? > [@Princhester](#): > > This is (for obvious reasons) the first and last time I will provide him with masturbatory material by posting on this topic. If you were both compassionate, wouldn’t you provide him with aid just because he is a human being in need? (Or maybe just because of the delicious irony?) [QUOTE=tdn] Is this a joke? [/QUOTE] Good question. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2009, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/135 "2009-03-25T23:48:14Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > No sweetie–that’s sexist. Do try to keep your “ists” in order. 😃 :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2009, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/136 "2009-03-25T23:50:59Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Rand says that she believes that egoism (ie, the idea that an action is right just because it benefits one’s self) is every bit as wrong as altruism (ie, the idea that an action is right just because it benefits others). See the “Objectivist Ethics” speech I referred to above. A friend, knowing of my feelings about Ayn Rand, sent me this quote recently. Maybe it’ll give you a chuckle: “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.” - John Rogers ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2009, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/137 "2009-03-25T23:51:02Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I think scylla is saying that compassion as defined here is all show and no go, and I agree with him if that’s what he means. Bingo! ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/138 "2009-03-26T00:03:30Z")
> [@ivn1188](#): > > If you were both compassionate, wouldn’t you provide him with aid just because he is a human being in need? (Or maybe just because of the delicious irony?) If either of these posters were people in need, of course I’d help them. If they show up at my hospital, I’ll treat them well, like I do all my pts. If they were my neighbors I’d watch out for their mail etc like I do my neighbors when they go away. I am flanked by neighbors who are very conservative and disapprove/ actively dislike the current President etc, but we’ve never been anything but polite to one another–that is, we’ve used _“the appropriate words at the appropriate time while being careful not to hurt people’s feelings with what one says.”_ Conventional manners, IOW. These are basic minimum standards that even they should be able to meet. After this thread, I’m not so sure about **RR** or **Scylla.** You I have no doubt about. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/139 "2009-03-26T00:11:08Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Is this a joke? > > No, seriously, is it? It’s clear that I should go back to assuming every new poster is a troll until they demonstrate otherwise. Rhetorical profiling, I suppose, but justified under the present circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2009, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739/140 "2009-03-26T00:21:13Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I am indeed compassionless under your definition, and I am not ashamed of that (proud in fact). I have given to charity on occassion, but I usually feel bad afterwards. I ask this in all seriousness: What more do you need to know about the guy? I assert my self-interst and egoism by only wasting my time on and with people who will either make my life better (be it ever so temporarily or pointlessly) or allow me to enrich theirs (to at least the same degree). People who do neither are off my planet. Warmed over Randism? What are we, college freshmen? But, hey – if you’re entertained by it – Enjoy! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-rover-red-rover-send-rand-rover-over/490739.md?page=8)