# Red State - Blue State IQs **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 24, 2006, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-state-blue-state-iqs/377740 "2006-10-24T18:58:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Grand\_Theory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f05b48/32.png) [@Grand\_Theory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grand_Theory)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2006, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-state-blue-state-iqs/377740/1 "2006-10-24T18:58:38Z")
More funny than anything and absolutely much ado about nothing much – I put this topic here, in ‘The Pit,’ and not elsewhere, only because of the subject matter, which always seems to find someone with a personal or political ax to grind. Anyway, last election, and the presidential election before, there were lists showing states by average IQ. They seemed to make their way into every nook of every cranny of the Internet. The last list showed the states that went to Kerry as the “high IQ” states. Those that went to Bush, had lower average IQs. How these averaged IQs were derived was never indicated and later it was exposed as a hoax (at least according to the linked article). Steve Sailer, the author of the article, gets his new information showing the “real state IQs” from a “scientific journal” which he links there. The new, more “scientific” list shows little difference between the red and blue states and only a 10 point difference between the highest ranked state (Massachusetts, estimated IQ average of 104.3) and the lowest (Mississippi, estimated IQ average of 94.2). And little difference, but still some difference, among the red and blue states. That said, wonder if there might be comments – smartass or otherwise. The table-\> [http://vdare.com/sailer/061022\_iq\_table.htm](http://vdare.com/sailer/061022_iq_table.htm) The article-\> [http://vdare.com/sailer/061022\_iq.htm](http://vdare.com/sailer/061022_iq.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2006, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-state-blue-state-iqs/377740/2 "2006-10-24T19:14:38Z")
VDARE? Yup, that’s a site with tons of credibility. Wikipedia can be full of errors. Perhaps you can point out the mistakes and/or lies in this profile of Steve Sailer. > **[Steve Sailer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Sailer)** > > Steven Ernest Sailer (born December 20, 1958) is an American far-right writer and blogger. A former columnist for National Review and correspondent for UPI, he is currently a columnist for Taki's Magazine and VDARE, a website associated with white supremacy. Since 2014, his personal blog, iSteve, has appeared in The Unz Review.\[a\] > Earlier writing by Sailer appeared in some mainstream outlets, and his writings have been described as prefiguring Trumpism. Sailer reportedly coined the term human b... ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-state-blue-state-iqs/377740/3 "2006-10-25T07:12:13Z")
Why is a conservative writer trying to tell us that intelligent people were less likely to vote for Bush? My guess isn’t the desire to promote the truth, whatever it may be. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-state-blue-state-iqs/377740/4 "2006-10-25T11:28:19Z")
I rather doubt the data and haven’t seen any reliable stats on these supposed state ranges of IQ. I rather doubt that average IQ of any state is more than a point or two above or below 100. ---
**Author:** ![Walter\_Windchill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Walter\_Windchill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walter_Windchill)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-state-blue-state-iqs/377740/5 "2006-10-25T12:22:08Z")
People really misunderstand IQ and overrate its significance anyway. ---
**Author:** ![TroubleAgain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e480ec/32.png) [@TroubleAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroubleAgain)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-state-blue-state-iqs/377740/6 "2006-10-25T17:07:48Z")
FYI, folks, those links (vdare) lit up my company’s content filter with “hate speech” related material for whatever reason. Ya might want to avoid going there at work. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2006, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-state-blue-state-iqs/377740/7 "2006-10-26T01:39:51Z")
I think it’s been proven that all Blue Staters are smarter than average – so much so that they’e even smarter than the average for Blue States! ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2006, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-state-blue-state-iqs/377740/8 "2006-10-26T01:56:49Z")
I betcha 49% of the people in my state are above average! Go NY! ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2006, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-state-blue-state-iqs/377740/9 "2006-10-26T17:38:03Z")
We’re talking about a 10 IQ point difference between the top and bottom. Picking nits say I. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2006, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-state-blue-state-iqs/377740/10 "2006-10-26T17:59:33Z")
[QUOTE=control-z] We’re talking about a 10 IQ point difference between the top and bottom. Picking nits say I. [/QUOTE] Given that 15 points would be one standard deviation, it’s a bit more than nits, and it makes me dubious of the methodology before even reading any further. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2006, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-state-blue-state-iqs/377740/11 "2006-10-27T08:24:26Z")
[QUOTE=Bridget Burke] VDARE? Yup, that’s a site with tons of credibility. Wikipedia can be full of errors. Perhaps you can point out the mistakes and/or lies in this profile of Steve Sailer. > **[Steve Sailer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Sailer)** > > Steven Sailer is an American far-right political writer. He was a weekly columnist for the paleoconservative Taki's Magazine and a daily blogger for the alt-right VDARE and The Unz Review for years. Earlier writing by Sailer appeared in some mainstream outlets, and his writings have been described as prefiguring Trumpism, and have made him a prominent figure in right-wing discussions on immigration, intelligence and culture. Sailer popularized the concept of "human biodiversity" in 1990s to ref... [/QUOTE] Oh for fucks sakes people. He links to the scholarly journal article right in his blog post. If you want to attack, attack the methodology of the actual article (of which there are plenty of criticisms) but what does it matter who the source is? ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2006, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-state-blue-state-iqs/377740/12 "2006-10-27T19:00:13Z")
[QUOTE=Shalmanese] Oh for fucks sakes people. He links to the scholarly journal article right in his blog post. If you want to attack, attack the methodology of the actual article (of which there are plenty of criticisms) but what does it matter who the source is? [/QUOTE] VDARE is a virulently anti-immigration site. Not just ILLEGAL immigration, but any immigration. Or immigration of certain ethnic groups. From the linked blog: \*Be wary, though, of that popular and pernicious myth—that “all” we have to do to solve the problems caused by diversity is to fix education, and then every student will be an above-average Lake Wobegon child. The unpalatable truth: while we know how we could do a better job of keeping out low IQ foreigners, we really don’t have a clue how to turn their children into high, or even medium, IQ adults on average. America has spent enormous amounts of money since the Great Society trying to narrow ethnic IQ and achievement gaps . We have only a little to show for it. \* Why not a more direct link to the paper in question? It was published in that famous “scholarly journal”, _Intelligence._ \*Intelligence is a scientific journal dealing with intelligence and psychometrics. It was founded in 1977 by Douglas K. Detterman of Case Western Reserve University (a signatorie of “Mainstream Science on Intelligence”). \* > **[Intelligence (journal)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_(journal))** > > Intelligence is a bimonthly peer-reviewed academic journal of psychology that covers research on intelligence and psychometrics. It is published by Elsevier and is the official journal of the International Society for Intelligence Research. The journal was established in 1977 by Douglas K. Detterman. The editors-in-chief are Dragoș Iliescu and Samuel Greiff. According to the New Statesman in 2018, the "journal Intelligence is one of the most respected in its field" but has allowed its reputation... \*“Mainstream Science on Intelligence” is a 1994 editorial written by Linda Gottfredson and published in the Wall Street Journal on December 13. It was a list of 25 statements which upheld many of the findings in intelligence research discussed in The Bell Curve. The frequently-cited piece was reprinted in Intelligence in 1997 with additional information on its creation, the response, and a bibliography. Roughly a third of the 52 signatories, including Gottfredson, have received grants from the Pioneer Fund. Eight of the signatories, including Gottfredson, currently (as of 2006) sit on the editorial board for Intelligence which reprinted it…\* > **[Mainstream Science on Intelligence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainstream_Science_on_Intelligence)** > > "Mainstream Science on Intelligence" was a public statement issued by a group of researchers led by the psychologist Linda Gottfredson. It was published originally in The Wall Street Journal on December 13, 1994, as a response to criticism of Richard Herrnstein and Charles Murray's book The Bell Curve, which had appeared the same year. The statement defended Herrnstein and Murray's controversial claims about race and intelligence, including the claim that average intelligence quotient (IQ) dif Th... Grants from The Pioneer Fund? Here’s what the Southern Poverty & Law Center has to say about that illustrious group: \*Academic Racism; Key race scientist takes reins at Pioneer Fund Race-based science might seem like a relic of the Victorian age, and eugenics an experiment in “human improvement” that passed away with Hitler. But thanks in large part to the Pioneer Fund both subjects are still alive. Set up in to “improve the character of the American people” by promoting eugenics and procreation by people of white colonial stock, Pioneer has financed a number of leading race scientists, lavishing more than $500,000 a year on those who work to “prove” inherent racial differences that the vast majority of scientists regard as balderdash.\* [www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=83](http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=83) VDARE is racist crap & anything linked from there is probably also crap. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2006, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-state-blue-state-iqs/377740/13 "2006-10-27T19:38:51Z")
[QUOTE=Shalmanese] Oh for fucks sakes people. He links to the scholarly journal article right in his blog post. If you want to attack, attack the methodology of the actual article (of which there are plenty of criticisms) but what does it matter who the source is? [/QUOTE] I dunno bout no scholarly article but in der state I is from, the average IQ is a hunnert.