# Red states secede. Is war inevitable? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 9, 2021, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-states-secede-is-war-inevitable/937548 "2021-03-09T19:27:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2021, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-states-secede-is-war-inevitable/937548/41 "2021-03-09T23:39:45Z")
> **[Capitol riot fueled by deep network of GOP statehouse support](https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/13/republican-legislatures-trump-conspiracy-458507)** > > Stolen election lie had backing from party’s governing class at every level, extending far beyond Congress and the White House. I think that you are going to walk it back a tad more. Trump happened, Texas happened, Charlottesville and DC happened. Trump is a symptom of a profoundly diseased culture and that culture is red state America. The division is deep and widening, while it’s true that there are red staters living in blue state America, that was true during the civil war. But when you look at a state like Texas, you see a state that has collapsed under the weight of a critical mass of red state Americans, they contribute too little and take too much. The price of their anti-science fanaticism is only going to get higher as climate change’s impact increases. The entire nation faces the same destiny, collapsing under the weight of red state Americans. It is not sustainable. ---
**Author:** ![TheGunIsMightierThanThePen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thegunismightierthanthepen/32/2981_2.png) [@TheGunIsMightierThanThePen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheGunIsMightierThanThePen)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2021, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-states-secede-is-war-inevitable/937548/42 "2021-03-09T23:47:14Z")
I’ve seen that XKCD cartoon before, and I’m well aware that most “red” states are actually red-purplish. Which is why I fantasize that if Democrats can tick off the Republicans enough, it may finally provide the opening the blue states need to be rid of the burden of the red states forever. Once separate, give the 47% of blue voters in Texas the option to move to Liberaltopia, and likewise the option for the red voters in blue states to move to Conservatopia. Then finally, the conservatives’ problems will be the conservatives’ problems, and the liberals’ problems will be the liberals’ problems. None of this whining about cross-contamination. Simple! (but not really) > [@begbert2](#): > > So I imagine that you would see a series of civil wars as different kleptocratic governments formed and were toppled. I fully expect that as well, and I’ll be busting out the popcorn and beer. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2021, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-states-secede-is-war-inevitable/937548/43 "2021-03-09T23:48:30Z")
I’m not going to go into your cite - we’d be splitting hairs for days and it wouldn’t be worth either of our times. Let’s just say I agree with it, while not agreeing it invalidates my basic point. > [@madmonk28](#): > > Trump is a symptom of a profoundly diseased culture and that culture is red state America. No argument from me, not even the “state” part as it relates to national elections. Like I said states are important because of the EC. But in terms of secession, i.e. the topic of this thread, I don’t buy it. I’ll leave it there in the interest of agreeing to disagree. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2021, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-states-secede-is-war-inevitable/937548/44 "2021-03-09T23:55:43Z")
I think that war is not inevitable, As noted up thread, Czechoslovakia dissolved peacefully, but I think that what we’re looking at is closer to what happened when the Soviet Union collapsed, there was some violence, but not a wholesale war, of course it’s still playing out thirty years later and that is less than ideal. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2021, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-states-secede-is-war-inevitable/937548/45 "2021-03-09T23:58:17Z")
If either the so-called red or so-called blue states secede I believe war would be inevitable. And it would make Civil War I look pleasant in comparison. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2021, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-states-secede-is-war-inevitable/937548/46 "2021-03-10T00:35:53Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > - How does the military get divvied up? 100% goes to the blue states. Okay, the troops that want to leave can do so, but they leave their weapons and ammo behind. Anything else guarantees a second civil war, especially as Confederate troops occupying Fort Sumter is pretty much what started the first one. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2021, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-states-secede-is-war-inevitable/937548/47 "2021-03-10T01:13:04Z")
> [@ZosterSandstorm](#): > > There is no such thing as “secession.” There surely is. Some states tried it, and were defeated in a war. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2021, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-states-secede-is-war-inevitable/937548/48 "2021-03-10T01:14:38Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > 100% goes to the blue states. Okay, the troops that want to leave can do so, but they leave their weapons and ammo behind. Anything else guarantees a second civil war, especially as Confederate troops occupying Fort Sumter is pretty much what started the first one. Are you guys going to bulldoze the runways at LRAFB when you leave? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2021, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-states-secede-is-war-inevitable/937548/49 "2021-03-10T01:24:25Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > What am I forgetting? I think one important issue is that you can’t judge a state by its voting patterns. The Republicans have spent thirty years disenfranchising people. In Florida, for example, there are over one and a half million adults who can’t vote. Count people instead of registered voters and Florida is a blue state. Which the red voters would be reminded of if they tried to secede. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2021, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-states-secede-is-war-inevitable/937548/50 "2021-03-10T01:26:11Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > Okay, the troops that want to leave can do so, but they leave their weapons and ammo behind. So the red government is going to confiscate everyone’s firearms? ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2021, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-states-secede-is-war-inevitable/937548/51 "2021-03-10T01:29:51Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Red and blue America are two distinct cultures > [@velcro](#): > > I don’t think anyone disagrees on that point. Then I might be the only person in the known universe not to accept the point that red & blue America represent monolithic and immutable cultures. The whole premise could (likely not) collapse in a single election cycle. ---
**Author:** ![velcro](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velcro/32/7102_2.png) [@velcro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velcro)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2021, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-states-secede-is-war-inevitable/937548/52 "2021-03-10T01:42:49Z")
I retract my absolute statement about “anyone”. However, if you define Red America as having certain views and Blue America as having opposite views, then they are two distinct cultures. No actual human is a perfect representative of either culture. Kinda weasel wordy now that I write it. But I was just attempting to extract the point that even if there were two completely independent cultures, they are geographically intertwined such that actual secession is not feasible. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2021, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-states-secede-is-war-inevitable/937548/53 "2021-03-10T01:43:41Z")
It didn’t start in a single cycle, why on earth would it end in one? ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2021, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-states-secede-is-war-inevitable/937548/54 "2021-03-10T02:06:14Z")
Can’t answer the why. My point was could. Maybe history will record the Jan 8th insurrection as the high point. Wouldn’t be the first white supremist movement in the US to implode in quick time. In August 1925 at the peak of in it’s second rise, the Ku Klux Klan paraded through Washington, D.C but by 1930 had dwindled to virtual insignificance. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2021, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-states-secede-is-war-inevitable/937548/55 "2021-03-10T02:28:06Z")
> [@Banksiaman](#): > > Internationally, most countries will not like the idea of either a diminished US [do they suddenly halve their NATO contribution, need to deflect forward forces into arming the internal border etc?] or the destabilisation of international policy. Agreed. They also wouldn’t like the decline in the value of U.S. Treasury securities they may own. Even if there was a amiable agreement on who holds which portion of the national debt, the chances of default just went up a lot. The reasonable fear would be that red states would refuse the taxes needed to pay the debt, and the blue wouldn’t keep down spending so they could pay. As a result, debt interest rates would immediately rise to reflect the risk, making the debt instantly more expensive. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2021, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-states-secede-is-war-inevitable/937548/56 "2021-03-10T02:42:33Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > The division is deep and widening, while it’s true that there are red staters living in blue state America, that was true during the civil war. Deep, yes. Although, compared to bloody Kansas, and proportionate to population, red-blue conflict isn’t so great. Widening? Not sure. And if you are correct, just extending a trend line definitely can’t work forever. A year from now, the Supreme Court will probably have struck down affirmative action. I predict your average university President will refuse to act the sore loser and instead put in less divisive class-based alternatives. That’s one example of how polarization could slowly reverse. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2021, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-states-secede-is-war-inevitable/937548/57 "2021-03-10T02:45:42Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > Even if there was a amiable agreement on who holds which portion of the national debt Now that’s be an interesting negotiation. 🤣 Offer the secessionists their allocation of the national debt in the same proportion as their Electoral College votes. That’d scare most of them back into the fold by itself. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2021, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-states-secede-is-war-inevitable/937548/58 "2021-03-10T02:55:22Z")
January 6, red state terrorists attacked the Capitol. Earlier red state terrorist attacks include Charlottesville, Kyle Rittenhouse’s shootings and multiple instance of red state terrorists driving cars into crowds. But for some reason your talking about affirmative action, not the white nationalist terrorists who tried to stage a coup. > **[Far-Right Groups Are Behind Most U.S. Terrorist Attacks, Report Finds...](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/24/us/domestic-terrorist-groups.html)** > > White supremacist groups have carried out a majority of “terrorist plots and attacks” this year, according to a report by a think tank, the Center for Strategic and International Studies. ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Jay\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Z)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2021, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-states-secede-is-war-inevitable/937548/59 "2021-03-10T03:02:46Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > January 6, red state terrorists attacked the Capitol. Earlier red state terrorist attacks include Charlottesville, Kyle Rittenhouse’s shootings and multiple instance of red state terrorists driving cars into crowds. But for some reason your talking about affirmative action, not the white nationalist terrorists who tried to stage a coup. This is an massive overreach. Kyle Rittenhouse is not a “red state terrorist attack.” Beyond that, if it did go down, Russia, China etc. would be the big winners, and everyone in the USA the big losers. No question about that. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2021, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-states-secede-is-war-inevitable/937548/60 "2021-03-10T03:08:24Z")
Why is it not a red state terrorist attack? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-states-secede-is-war-inevitable/937548.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-states-secede-is-war-inevitable/937548.md?page=4)