# 'Red, White and Blue' etc.? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 12, 2019, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-white-and-blue-etc/829420 "2019-02-12T20:47:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sangahyando](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f14d63/32.png) [@Sangahyando](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sangahyando)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2019, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-white-and-blue-etc/829420/21 "2019-02-18T18:42:52Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I certainly don’t remember anyone ever mentioning the order of the colours of the Union Jack when I lived in Britain. At best, people would mention the crosses (George, Andrew, **someone else for Northern Ireland** ) from time to time, and how you could tell the flag was upside down because of… something to do with St. Andrew’s saltire I think. (My bolding) – the red saltire (“X” cross) for, nowadays, Northern Ireland, officially-heraldically symbolises St. Patrick (flag thereof on its own, red saltire on white ground). The Union Jack / Flag got its present form in 1801, when Ireland (the whole of it) was formally incorporated in the United Kingdom. When (early 1920s) Ireland was partitioned, and what is now the Irish Republic ceased to be part of the UK; the flag was kept as it had been, because of the six counties of Northern Ireland remaining in the UK. One wonders whether N.I.'s extremely-zealous Protestant Unionists would be upset about their being represented in the flag, by the saltire of St. Patrick; but seemingly, that’s not a problem. Their kind of Protestantism is apt to regard the whole idea of saints in the sense of past heroes of the faith, known for sure now to be in heaven: as Catholic abominable / nonsensical stuff – so, one takes it, they revere the Union Flag on a secular level, and disregard its element concerning the chimeric St. Patrick. ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2019, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-white-and-blue-etc/829420/22 "2019-02-18T20:59:19Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > “The national flag is the tricolour of green, white and orange.” > > - Constitution of Ireland, Article 7 > > Italy is green, white, red and a search backs me up. As someone who grew up in a Republican/Nationalist part of Northern Ireland it was only ever referred to as “Green, White and Gold”. In retrospect I suppose it was to avoid mentioning Orange and is related to the kind of silliness which currently has Nationalist/Republican communities flying the Palestinian flag and Unionist/Loyalist communities flying the Israeli flag. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2019, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-white-and-blue-etc/829420/23 "2019-02-18T21:24:21Z")
[The Thai flag](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Thai_flags#/media/File:Flag_of_Thailand.svg) is red, white and blue, but I’ve never heard it referred to in terms of color. The red stands for both people and blood, symbolizing life, the white for the Buddhist religion and the blue for the monarchy. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2019, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-white-and-blue-etc/829420/24 "2019-02-18T21:33:20Z")
> [@Atomic\_Alex](#): > > …related to the kind of silliness which currently has Nationalist/Republican communities flying the Palestinian flag and Unionist/Loyalist communities flying the Israeli flag. Wait, what? Is it because Republicans are claiming to be “occupied territory” or something? ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2019, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-white-and-blue-etc/829420/25 "2019-02-18T21:44:47Z")
> [@Atomic\_Alex](#): > > As someone who grew up in a Republican/Nationalist part of Northern Ireland it was only ever referred to as “Green, White and Gold”. That’s hilarious. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Wait, what? Is it because Republicans are claiming to be “occupied territory” or something? [Orange Order](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_Order) et al.? So British it’s named after a Dutch guy. NI’s MAGA hats, sorta. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2019, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-white-and-blue-etc/829420/26 "2019-02-18T22:15:46Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > I didn’t understand this thread at first. You’re asking how the National colours are referred to? I don’t think we do refer to them in Canada. The colours are red and white, but I’m blanking on any equivalent to “Hooray for the red white and blue” or anything like that. Maybe “the maple leaf”. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-white-and-blue-etc/829420/27 "2019-02-19T16:25:29Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > That’s hilarious. > > [Orange Order](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_Order) et al.? So British it’s named after a Dutch guy. NI’s MAGA hats, sorta. I know about the Troubles. I’m asking what the sides have to do with the Palestinian and Israeli flags. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-white-and-blue-etc/829420/28 "2019-02-19T18:23:51Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I know about the Troubles. I’m asking what the sides have to do with the Palestinian and Israeli flags. Lots of reasons, not all of them make perfect sense except in reaction to each other. Traditional left vs. right politics and solidarity, as seen in other countries as well. Republicans’ perceived underdoggedness. Loyalists’ perceived being surrounded by “others.” ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-white-and-blue-etc/829420/29 "2019-02-19T22:44:35Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Wait, what? Is it because Republicans are claiming to be “occupied territory” or something? Sorry for the slow reply, I went to bed last night after posting that. The Republican/Palestinian thing is mostly because of a historical linkage between the two ‘liberation struggles’, though the actual flying of Palestinian flags seems a fairly recent invention. The Loyalists flying Israeli flags is pretty much just to do the opposite of the Republicans, although thelurkinghorror raises a point I hadn’t considered. Certain strains of Ulster Protestantism also trace a mythical connection to Israel through the lost tribes, believing one of them made their way to Ireland and settled there (not certain if they believe it was only Ulster or not). Basically though if you asked the average flag waver they probably wouldn’t be able to point the Middle East out on a map. On a side-note I remember reading an article once where an image of Israel and the Palestinian Territories were superimposed on a map of the UK, I was stuck by how small the region is, I hadn’t realised that before. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2019, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-white-and-blue-etc/829420/30 "2019-02-20T00:01:20Z")
> [@Atomic\_Alex](#): > > The Loyalists flying Israeli flags is pretty much just to do the opposite of the Republicans, although thelurkinghorror raises a point I hadn’t considered. Certain strains of Ulster Protestantism also trace a mythical connection to Israel through the lost tribes, believing one of them made their way to Ireland and settled there (not certain if they believe it was only Ulster or not). What I can find suggests that they Palestinian flag came first, and Israel was a reaction to it. The US has a particular strain of Protestantism, small but vocal, that has similar Biblical interpretations of Israel, which leads to support. It sometimes leads to strange bedfellows, like Johnny Adair types with Israel flags. > [@](#): > > On a side-note I remember reading an article once where an image of Israel and the Palestinian Territories were superimposed on a map of the UK, I was stuck by how small the region is, I hadn’t realised that before. [I think this link should work](https://thetruesize.com/#/aboutModal?borders=1~!MTUyMDM0MDM.MTIxMjI2MjA*MjA5MzYyMDY(MTI1NzM0MTM~!IL*MzgyNzgzNw.MTM5NDMyOTM)NA~!PS*MzgxMzc2MQ.MTM5Njg2OTI)Ng). ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2019, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-white-and-blue-etc/829420/31 "2019-02-20T07:53:35Z")
Colombian law refers to “Los colores del pabellón nacional de los Estados Unidos de Colombia son amarillo, azul y rojo…” Yellow, blue and red. ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2019, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-white-and-blue-etc/829420/32 "2019-02-20T09:35:19Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > What I can find suggests that they Palestinian flag came first, and Israel was a reaction to it. The US has a particular strain of Protestantism, small but vocal, that has similar Biblical interpretations of Israel, which leads to support. It sometimes leads to strange bedfellows, like Johnny Adair types with Israel flags. Yes the Palestinian flags definitely came first, I don’t know exactly when they first started to appear but it was certainly post-ceasefire. And you aren’t kidding. 🙂 > [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > [I think this link should work](https://thetruesize.com/#/aboutModal?borders=1~!MTUyMDM0MDM.MTIxMjI2MjA*MjA5MzYyMDY(MTI1NzM0MTM~!IL*MzgyNzgzNw.MTM5NDMyOTM)NA~!PS*MzgxMzc2MQ.MTM5Njg2OTI)Ng). Thanks, that’s really neat! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/red-white-and-blue-etc/829420.md?page=1)