# Redeemed by the Dark Christ of Flight 123 **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 30, 2005, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redeemed-by-the-dark-christ-of-flight-123/337698 "2005-12-30T07:10:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2005, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redeemed-by-the-dark-christ-of-flight-123/337698/1 "2005-12-30T07:10:01Z")
Happy are they who can use the hells of others to avoid their own. The Dark Christ does not take our sins away; he rubs our faces in them and shows us the circumstances whereby we might come to regret them. In this way He teaches us that we do not love enough without teaching us how to love more; the latter is up to us. I felt it in my chest for several days: The hell of losing control over our creations; its ultimate expression is perhaps the aircrash. Loss of life and property are great and messy, and the victims often have time to understand their fate. Those on Flight 123 had more than half an hour. They wrote letters to their loved ones, some of which survived the Gehenna of the crash. Even photographs from inside the plane before it went down were taken (I can’t find them on the Internet). Dead, 520; survivors, 4 (it’s hard to believe). The largest single-craft disaster in aviation history. Twenty years have passed. [Here](http://www.goennet.ne.jp/~hohri/n-ochiai.htm) is one survivor’s record of her experience. It is scarier than any book’s or movie’s fiction. [Here](http://www.goennet.ne.jp/~hohri/n-irei.htm) is where the unidentified dead lie in 123 urns. [Here](http://hw001.gate01.com/virtua1994/record.htm) is the transcript of the CVR with the full recording in several parts (blue links on left). If you do not believe in a Hell, [listen](http://hw001.gate01.com/virtua1994/CVR/185615-28.mp3) to the MP3 of the flight’s final minute–and be damned as I was. The feeling stayed in my chest for days. “I do not love enough,” I thought. I felt compassion to all. How fragile we all are, and how damned by entropy: Whether by the violent forces of a plane crash or the slow deterioration of the body, somewhere, somehow we shall end. Now the feeling is leaving me, and I only have the memory of it: I am left with the _knowledge_ of how to approach life and the world, but not the direct guidance of that strange emotion. I suppose knowledge will have to suffice until the Dark Christ comes to redeem me once more. ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2005, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redeemed-by-the-dark-christ-of-flight-123/337698/2 "2005-12-30T07:31:03Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > Happy are they who can use the hells of others to avoid their own. The Dark Christ does not take our sins away; he rubs our faces in them and shows us the circumstances whereby we might come to regret them. In this way He teaches us that we do not love enough without teaching us how to love more; the latter is up to us. > > I felt it in my chest for several days: The hell of losing control over our creations; its ultimate expression is perhaps the aircrash. Loss of life and property are great and messy, and the victims often have time to understand their fate. Those on Flight 123 had more than half an hour. They wrote letters to their loved ones, some of which survived the Gehenna of the crash. Even photographs from inside the plane before it went down were taken (I can’t find them on the Internet). > > Dead, 520; survivors, 4 (it’s hard to believe). The largest single-craft disaster in aviation history. Twenty years have passed. > > [Here](http://www.goennet.ne.jp/~hohri/n-ochiai.htm) is one survivor’s record of her experience. It is scarier than any book’s or movie’s fiction. > > [Here](http://www.goennet.ne.jp/~hohri/n-irei.htm) is where the unidentified dead lie in 123 urns. > > [Here](http://hw001.gate01.com/virtua1994/record.htm) is the transcript of the CVR with the full recording in several parts (blue links on left). If you do not believe in a Hell, [listen](http://hw001.gate01.com/virtua1994/CVR/185615-28.mp3) to the MP3 of the flight’s final minute–and be damned as I was. > > The feeling stayed in my chest for days. “I do not love enough,” I thought. I felt compassion to all. How fragile we all are, and how damned by entropy: Whether by the violent forces of a plane crash or the slow deterioration of the body, somewhere, somehow we shall end. > > Now the feeling is leaving me, and I only have the memory of it: I am left with the _knowledge_ of how to approach life and the world, but not the direct guidance of that strange emotion. I suppose knowledge will have to suffice until the Dark Christ comes to redeem me once more. Too bad it is all in another language. ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2005, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redeemed-by-the-dark-christ-of-flight-123/337698/3 "2005-12-30T07:32:48Z")
But just out of curiosity, how often does the Dark Christ have to redeem you? Is once not enough? If he is eternal then his redemption has no begining or end. Why would you need to be redeemed a second time? ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2005, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redeemed-by-the-dark-christ-of-flight-123/337698/4 "2005-12-30T07:37:53Z")
> [@newcrasher](#): > > But just out of curiosity, how often does the Dark Christ have to redeem you? Is once not enough? Sometimes the redemption doesn’t “take.” You know how human nature is. > [@](#): > > If he is eternal then his redemption has no begining or end. Why would you need to be redeemed a second time? The Dark Christ has not, and will not, die for your sins. He makes you realize that, in a world so fragile and sad, there is no point in hating or making a fuss over petty matters. He is the personification of that fragility, sadness, terror, and forlornness. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2005, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redeemed-by-the-dark-christ-of-flight-123/337698/5 "2005-12-30T08:48:26Z")
For those of you that are wondering what they hell the OP is taking about, I off a [Wiki link](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Airlines_flight_123) Back to the OP, was it the Dark Christ, or just a bunch of guys that did not read the repair instructions ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2005, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redeemed-by-the-dark-christ-of-flight-123/337698/6 "2005-12-30T08:52:56Z")
:smack: Make that I off **er** a [Wiki link](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Airlines_flight_123) ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2005, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redeemed-by-the-dark-christ-of-flight-123/337698/7 "2005-12-30T08:57:30Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Back to the OP, was it the Dark Christ, or just a bunch of guys that did not read the repair instructions No, the Dark Christ is He who brings you fear and sorrow as a moral lesson; he does not Himself cause the evil events. ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2005, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redeemed-by-the-dark-christ-of-flight-123/337698/8 "2005-12-30T13:16:23Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > No, the Dark Christ is He who brings you fear and sorrow as a moral lesson; he does not Himself cause the evil events. 'kay b-bye now… :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2005, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redeemed-by-the-dark-christ-of-flight-123/337698/9 "2005-12-30T15:03:49Z")
> [@newcrasher](#): > > 'kay > > b-bye now… > > :rolleyes: I don’t understand the “rolleyes” here friend. Do you not understand the importance of the Dark Christ? Did you not follow the links? ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2005, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redeemed-by-the-dark-christ-of-flight-123/337698/10 "2005-12-30T15:14:11Z")
Dude, you’re trippin’. First of all, practically noone on this board reads the language every single one of your links is written in. Secondly, since I was curious about this “Dark Christ” of which you speak and googled it. I remain uninformed, as most of the hits concern a Dead Can Dance song. I can most certainly empathize with the folks having to go through that horror, and I can appreciate the heaviness of impending doom. But if you’ve got something to say about it, ditch the cryptic bullshit and just say it. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2005, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redeemed-by-the-dark-christ-of-flight-123/337698/11 "2005-12-30T15:47:13Z")
> [@An Arky](#): > > First of all, practically noone on this board reads the language every single one of your links is written in. Many here read Japanese. In any case, there are also photographs to look at and sounds to hear. Open the portals of your mind. > [@](#): > > Secondly, since I was curious about this “Dark Christ” of which you speak and googled it. I remain uninformed, as most of the hits concern a Dead Can Dance song. It’s my own concept. Open the portals of your mind. > [@](#): > > I can most certainly empathize with the folks having to go through that horror, and I can appreciate the heaviness of impending doom. Good, that’s a start. > [@](#): > > But if you’ve got something to say about it, ditch the cryptic bullshit and just say it. OK: Open the portals of your mind. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2005, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redeemed-by-the-dark-christ-of-flight-123/337698/12 "2005-12-30T15:48:57Z")
Is [blackface jesus](http://www.gawker.com/news/blackface-jesus/index.php) a manifestation of Dark Christ? ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2005, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redeemed-by-the-dark-christ-of-flight-123/337698/13 "2005-12-30T16:09:07Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > Is [blackface jesus](http://www.gawker.com/news/blackface-jesus/index.php) a manifestation of Dark Christ? No, the “darkness” has nothing to do with skin color; it has to do with the dark _nature_ of this Christ. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2005, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redeemed-by-the-dark-christ-of-flight-123/337698/14 "2005-12-30T16:14:33Z")
Who is this Dark Christ of which you speak? Do you not realize that Og and the Flying Spaghetti Monster will kick his ass if he shows his face around here? ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2005, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redeemed-by-the-dark-christ-of-flight-123/337698/15 "2005-12-30T16:20:23Z")
[Same transcript, in English this time.](http://aviation-safety.net/investigation/cvr/transcripts/cvr_ja123.php) **Aeschines** , it’d be great if you used English too. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2005, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redeemed-by-the-dark-christ-of-flight-123/337698/16 "2005-12-30T16:45:35Z")
> [@Atticus Finch](#): > > [Same transcript, in English this time.](http://aviation-safety.net/investigation/cvr/transcripts/cvr_ja123.php) Yeah, I saw that, but it’s a crappy translation that makes the crew sound like idiots. People, it’s the sound clips in the Japanese transcript page that really convey the hell those people went through. Give them a listen. > [@](#): > > **Aeschines** , it’d be great if you used English too. As I said, many here speak/read Japanese. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2005, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redeemed-by-the-dark-christ-of-flight-123/337698/17 "2005-12-30T16:53:53Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Who is this Dark Christ of which you speak? > > Do you not realize that Og and the Flying Spaghetti Monster will kick his ass if he shows his face around here? Ah, but the Dark Christ is a concept, not literally a deity, as are the two elite gods you mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2005, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redeemed-by-the-dark-christ-of-flight-123/337698/18 "2005-12-30T17:16:25Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > As I said, many here speak/read Japanese. Yeah, but the vast majority of us don’t, and your OP reads as if you mean for this to be of interest to more than just those Dopers who read Japanese. At this moment, however, I’m not sure _what_ your thread’s point is. Is the primary purpose to discuss the plane crash? Or, are you wanting to delve into this “Dark Christ” of yours? I don’t mind this thread remaining open, but we need clarification from you. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2005, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redeemed-by-the-dark-christ-of-flight-123/337698/19 "2005-12-30T17:42:09Z")
> [@SkipMagic](#): > > I don’t mind this thread remaining open, but we need clarification from you. I’m flattered that you don’t mind! Reading about the plane crash had an effect on me. I call this effect, or mental state, or interaction between the mind and evil the “Dark Christ.” It is dark because it is not happy stuff, as opposed to the mythical Jesus Christ who fills one’s heart with sunshine, lollipops, and rainbows. Nevertheless, it _is_ Christ because it changes how you see the world and interact with people in a positive way, although the darkness remains. It is also analagous to Christ in that the suffering of others leads one to redemption. I hope that’s suitably mundane, pointless, and clarified. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2005, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redeemed-by-the-dark-christ-of-flight-123/337698/20 "2005-12-30T17:50:53Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > No, the Dark Christ is He who brings you fear and sorrow as a moral lesson; he does not Himself cause the evil events. Anyone who would “bring” that sort of terror and suffering just to try to “teach a lesson” to bystanders is a real asshole of the highest degree and unworthy of any praise. You do not teach a child to love by beating the shit out of him, after all. Isn’t Christ’s mission to bring _comfort_ to those who have suffered? Furthermore, I feel deeply sorry for anyone who needs a plane crash to teach them compassion, and I distrust the veracity of that “conversion.” Momentary sympathy is a normal human reaction to tragedy. Most forget “the lesson” relatively quickly, much like generosity to the poor which only happens at Christmas. Through chance, I avoided being a plane crash victim. I was supposed to be on TWA flight 800, but changed my reservation at the last minute. Had I not, I would be dead. The lesson I learned from that was that life is fleeting and I’d best enjoy the time I have left to its fullest potential, not that Christ was killing people and causing grief and anguish to the victim’s families to make me “love more.” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redeemed-by-the-dark-christ-of-flight-123/337698.md?page=2)