# Redfury, 'Bush apologists' and a hearty FU **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 19, 2008, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-bush-apologists-and-a-hearty-fu/453440 "2008-06-19T04:18:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-bush-apologists-and-a-hearty-fu/453440/1 "2008-06-19T04:18:05Z")
From [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=9919408#post9919408) thread: > [@](#): > > Or are you (and Shodan, xt and any number of other professional Bush apologists) incapable of acknowledging that your President and many of his cohorts are simply criminals? Is butchering, torturing and uprooting a literally unknown number of people a peccadillo to be ignored due to Party allegiances? Short and sweet as I don’t see any point in drawing this out…fuck you, you Spanish prick. Or as we say where I come from ‘tu madre, pendejo’. You can take the whole ‘Bush apologist’ rant and shove it up your tight Spanish ass…sideways. Fucking troll… -XT ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-bush-apologists-and-a-hearty-fu/453440/2 "2008-06-19T04:26:53Z")
Oh come on, now. You might as well be surprised at the stupidity coming from Der Trihs. Plus, he’s probably drunk again. don’t pay him no mind. I did make a comment on his…uh…dispassionate reasoned analysis…snicker… in the other thread though. The real beauty if this particular strain of drunk dolt is that he really thinks he’s smart. I’ve gotten endless chuckles reading his drivel thinking of him holding his scotch as he Previews his spew and deems it BRILLIANT and hits Submit with smug satisfaction. Now THAT is comedy gold! ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-bush-apologists-and-a-hearty-fu/453440/3 "2008-06-19T04:36:44Z")
I’m not surprised…I’m simply tired of the knee jerk ‘Bush apologist’ meme. And I’m especially tired of people trying to pin that shit on me…not that I think that there are ANY ‘Bush apologists’ left on this board at any rate. It’s just short hand for anyone not marching in lockstep. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-bush-apologists-and-a-hearty-fu/453440/4 "2008-06-19T04:41:56Z")
What does his being Spanish have to do with it? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-bush-apologists-and-a-hearty-fu/453440/5 "2008-06-19T04:46:08Z")
[QUOTE=Zoe] What does his being Spanish have to do with it? [/QUOTE] Nothing at all…it was a gratuitous slam on my part. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-bush-apologists-and-a-hearty-fu/453440/6 "2008-06-19T04:59:27Z")
Are Spanish asses especially tight? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-bush-apologists-and-a-hearty-fu/453440/7 "2008-06-19T05:05:24Z")
It’s actually a valid reference if you have the misfortune of knowing Red’s posting habits. He likes to spew about how other people are nationalistic or excuse the sins of their own countries due to partisan loyalty, or what have you… while he has supported Spain’s history of butchery and slavery during its Imperialist phase, using “White Man’s Burden” rhetoric , as well as handwaving away the pervasive racism in Spanish society which includes but is not limited to police beating, murdering and raping foreigners while such actions are condoned by the Spanish government. In short, he’s a troll with a hardon for America who pretends to have certain beliefs which he doesn’t actually hold, in order to rant about America and insult Americans. And yet he’s welcome by the mods to keep posting in GD. ~shrugs~ ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-bush-apologists-and-a-hearty-fu/453440/8 "2008-06-19T05:14:21Z")
I’ll give it to you straight, **XT** , your kinda confusing. You tear into lefties with sneering snark at great length, and then, in kind of a footnote, you allow as how, yeah, the criticism is justified. Its like you can’t disagree with lefties about Bush, because the facts just won’t let you. But you’d rather nail your pecker to a tree than admit that we’re right about something. So, yeah, its confusing. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-bush-apologists-and-a-hearty-fu/453440/9 "2008-06-19T05:17:24Z")
Its true, **Finn** , he could take some lessons in temperance and civility. But not from you. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-bush-apologists-and-a-hearty-fu/453440/10 "2008-06-19T05:21:50Z")
**xtisme** has always struck me as a right wing apologist who likes to pretend the opposite. Like **elucidator** says, he puts out little disclaimer footnotes, but most of his posts consists of sneers at the left, and claims that however much he “regrets” it, we have to do whatever Bush wants at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-bush-apologists-and-a-hearty-fu/453440/11 "2008-06-19T05:23:51Z")
You kind of submarine yourself by throwing in the unnecessary xenophobic subtext (Finn’s tortured attempt at an apology for it notwithstanding). ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-bush-apologists-and-a-hearty-fu/453440/12 "2008-06-19T05:26:13Z")
[QUOTE=FinnAgain] It’s actually a valid reference if you have the misfortune of knowing Red’s posting habits. He likes to spew about how other people are nationalistic or excuse the sins of their own countries due to partisan loyalty, or what have you… while he has supported Spain’s history of butchery and slavery during its Imperialist phase, using “White Man’s Burden” rhetoric , as well as handwaving away the pervasive racism in Spanish society which includes but is not limited to police beating, murdering and raping foreigners while such actions are condoned by the Spanish government. In short, he’s a troll with a hardon for America who pretends to have certain beliefs which he doesn’t actually hold, in order to rant about America and insult Americans. And yet he’s welcome by the mods to keep posting in GD. ~shrugs~ [/QUOTE] If you think he’s in violation of the rules, then why don’t you report it? This kind of passive aggressive snivelling about the mods is never entertaining, never interesting and never insightful. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-bush-apologists-and-a-hearty-fu/453440/13 "2008-06-19T05:29:21Z")
Yes yes, because it’s not relevant that someone who accuses people who do _not want to disregard the law in order to call someone a criminal and punish them for “crimes”_ of being “professional apologists” for a partisan cause… is himself a partisan troll who doesn’t even believe his own rhetoric. P.S. Learn what “passive aggressive” means. P.P.S. Don’t presume to guess the contents of any private conversations I’ve had with the mods. P.P.P.S. Go fuck yourself. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-bush-apologists-and-a-hearty-fu/453440/14 "2008-06-19T06:15:09Z")
[QUOTE=FinnAgain] …P.P.S. Don’t presume to guess the contents of any private conversations I’ve had with the mods… [/QUOTE] “C’mon, Finn, please? Please be Supreme Moderator of Great Debates? You know you’re the only one who truly understands what debate _really_ is! Don’t make us beg, c’mon, be a _mensch_…” ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-bush-apologists-and-a-hearty-fu/453440/15 "2008-06-19T06:29:42Z")
Whoa. It can be argued that the Iraq War is a war crime. Based upon the Nuremburg trials, we have the legal precept that aggressive war is criminal, therefore it is indeed possible to hold the people responsible for precipitating it responsible for war crimes. That won’t happen, but nevertheless it is unfair to castigate people for their beliefs. Particularly foreigners, who are not subject to our beliefs. They are entitled to hold their beliefs. I’m really not fond of using somebody’s nationality against them. **RedFury** is entitled to hold any opinion he so desires, this being a board comprised of numerous nationalities. The truth is that he is right, partisanship has a tendency to blind people to the realities of what we have done. The Iraq War, whatever your opinions of it, has been a catastrophic failure. It would be hard to argue otherwise. Yet somehow you are attempting to do so. Do so at your own peril. Don’t blame others for their opinions. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-bush-apologists-and-a-hearty-fu/453440/16 "2008-06-19T06:50:03Z")
[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF] It can be argued that the Iraq War is a war crime. Based upon the Nuremburg trials, we have the legal precept that aggressive war is criminal, therefore it is indeed possible to hold the people responsible for precipitating it responsible for war crimes. [/quote] Which is not his argument, but that the law should be _discarded_ in order to find Bush guilty of crimes. [QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF] I’m really not fond of using somebody’s nationality against them. […]The truth is that he is right, partisanship has a tendency to blind people to the realities of what we have done. [/quote] One cannot honestly oppose blind partisanship while engaging in it. Along the same lines, one can’t support blind partisanship and then pretend that those who believe in the rule of law are blind partisan “professional apologists”. It isn’t his nationality that’s being used against him, as it is that he is a _nationalist_ who is on record as _supporting Spanish imperialism and condoning Spanish governmental racism_,while pretending that others are partisans for wanting to follow American law in order to determine and punish crimes under American law. **XT** didn’t give himself enough credit. The fact that Red is a troll who not only condones, but vocally _supports_ the history of Spanish imperialism while simultaneously pretending to have a problem when America is the issue, is germane to the subject. It’s not a matter of him holding certain opinions, it’s a matter of him pretending to hold them in order to spew at Americans. Honestly held opinions are fine. Trolling is not. If Red honestly believed that invading a nation in order to plunder it while butchering and enslaving the populace was wrong, he wouldn’t have gone as far as to champion such behavior when it was _his_ nation that engaged in it. Since, by his own admission, he actually sees nothing wrong with imperialism and conquest, going so far as to _support it (when it’s his country doing the invading and butchery)_, he’s trolling when he picks fights with Americans for not being against behavior which he himself supports, as long as it’s his country that does it. [QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF] The Iraq War, whatever your opinions of it, has been a catastrophic failure. It would be hard to argue otherwise. Yet somehow you are attempting to do so. [/quote] Who has claimed that the war hasn’t been a failure? [QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF] Don’t blame others for their opinions. [/QUOTE] Is it his opinion that he’s being blamed for, or the fact that he’s a troll who pretends to hold an opinion because he likes picking fights? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-bush-apologists-and-a-hearty-fu/453440/17 "2008-06-19T06:50:41Z")
But we can still rag on him about it, right? I mean, don’t throw out the baby with the bathwater, right? ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-bush-apologists-and-a-hearty-fu/453440/18 "2008-06-19T07:35:33Z")
[QUOTE=FinnAgain] Which is not his argument, but that the law should be _discarded_ in order to find Bush guilty of crimes. [/quote] Discarded? Indeed, if you don’t believe in international law (which I don’t). But is it so unreasonable that **RedFury** does? > [@](#): > > It isn’t his nationality that’s being used against him, as it is that he is a _nationalist_ who is on record as _supporting Spanish imperialism and condoning Spanish governmental racism_,while pretending that others are partisans for wanting to follow American law in order to determine and punish crimes under American law. Is that so? Perhaps you can show me where **RedFury** has shown a propensity towards Spanish exceptionalism. > [@](#): > > Who has claimed that the war hasn’t been a failure? Are you kidding? To quote President Bush: if you’re not with us, you’re against us. Clearly some believe that the war in Iraq was righteous, otherwise we wouldn’t be having this argument. > [@](#): > > Is it his opinion that he’s being blamed for, or the fact that he’s a troll who pretends to hold an opinion because he likes picking fights? Lots of people like to pick fights here. I would call the OP a direct assault upon the sensibilities of others, particularly because the OP chose not to elaborate on what he objected to but opted to go right to name calling. Short and sweet, the OP is wrong. Others can rightfully disagree with other people’s opinions, and in this case they have a particular interest in doing so as the war has been more than a bit polarizing worldwide. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-bush-apologists-and-a-hearty-fu/453440/19 "2008-06-19T08:09:18Z")
\*\*Airman, \*\* You’re right in that his nationality has squat to do with anything. You’re wrong other than that. And of all the times to come to someone’s defense you choose THIS one? You’ve got to be kidding. Is this a whoosh? Did you read his latest stupidity—that he wants criminal charges and a conviction, even if we have to dispense with a little thing like the rule of law?!! That’s not just dumb, that’s a Gordian Knot of dumb. And it reveals once again his blind partisanship. You do yourself no favor, **Airman** , coming to the defense of the drunk dolt in this particular instance. Disappointing. Oh, well… ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-bush-apologists-and-a-hearty-fu/453440/20 "2008-06-19T08:09:21Z")
Gee whiz. A Pitting all of my own. And for what? Because I think that anyone that supports the current Administration and their tragicomic blunders, resulting in countless deaths, is out to lunch with their biased ‘patriotism.’ And provided, no less, by **xt** , the most Patriotic and xenophobic “American” on board…who just happens to be alive due to his own Spanish blood and seems hell-bent on carrying on his Conquistador’s lineage. Appears no scrubbing will do. It’s the kind of self-hating that can lead to cutting oneself to ribbons. I almost feel bad for his sorry and confused ass. Which is obviously where his thinking comes out of. BTW, nice back-stab there, dickwad. Next time grow a pair and link to the Pit thread. * * * As for **Again** , just that. Told him I wouldn’t be responding to any more of his Zionist lunacy and I won’t. His sole recourse is some bizarre obsession of diagnosing me as an alcoholic and obviating what I am saying and citing. Thinks himself a Great Debater, while I doubt he’d make it as a Great Masturbater. He’d need to find his dick first. Now get ready for some sort of mad dissertation as a response, while making sure to let everyone know just how brilliant he is. Thanks Og for the scroll wheel! * * * As for vouching for discarding the law, plain bullshit. What I clearly said is to quit hiding behind minutia to defend the ultimate charge: Bush, War Criminal. Argue _that_, cumstains. * * * Right. That was fun. Time for another liter of Scotch. _:::hiiick::::_ Thank you and good night. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-bush-apologists-and-a-hearty-fu/453440.md?page=2)