# Redfury, 'Bush apologists' and a hearty FU **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 19, 2008, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-bush-apologists-and-a-hearty-fu/453440 "2008-06-19T04:18:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-bush-apologists-and-a-hearty-fu/453440/61 "2008-06-19T19:32:24Z")
[QUOTE=FinnAgain] If you don’t understand why claiming that Jews control US policy… …are all anti-Semitics statements, I suppose that any elaboration would be rather pointless. [/QUOTE] That would be a statement of fact, not an “anti-Semitic statement”. Jews _do_ control US foreign policy, which is predicated on the defense of Israel. “Jews are evil and control US foreign policy” would be an anti-Semitic statement. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-bush-apologists-and-a-hearty-fu/453440/62 "2008-06-19T19:45:44Z")
The whole issue of support for Israel is a big ball of fishooks. I am an admirer of Israel, if for nothing else than a poltical theater that never lacks for wild enthusiasm, they are involved in their governance in ways I dearly wish we would emulate. Democracy is a gift squandered on the apathetic. But I am deeply troubled by the extent of our committment there, we seem bent on her defense even when she is in the wrong. This is not to say she is always in the wrong, or even mostly, but the tragedy of the ME is mutual, each are victim to the other, each have legitimate grievances that cannot be resolved, only forgiven by people determined to have peace. And there are so few. Alas, so very few. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-bush-apologists-and-a-hearty-fu/453440/63 "2008-06-19T19:48:08Z")
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] That would be a statement of fact, not an “anti-Semitic statement”. Jews _do_ control US foreign policy, which is predicated on the defense of Israel. [/quote] Sorry, tinfoil hattist anti-Semitic conspiracy mongering is still anti-Semitic, and still isn’t factual. Yeah, those crafty Jews have been controlling Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld all along. I hear they even plot over a tombstone. But props to you for admitting you’re a racist. ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-bush-apologists-and-a-hearty-fu/453440/64 "2008-06-19T19:51:41Z")
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] That would be a statement of fact, not an “anti-Semitic statement”. Jews _do_ control US foreign policy, which is predicated on the defense of Israel. [/QUOTE] “Jews” don’t control anything as an entity. That’s what makes the statement absolutely antisemitic. The missing word isn’t “some”, it’s “the”. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-bush-apologists-and-a-hearty-fu/453440/65 "2008-06-19T19:51:43Z")
[QUOTE=FinnAgain] And, of course, his [justification](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9880948&postcount=54) of Spanish imperialism because otherwise those nasty Aztecs would’ve been ripping hearts out (with extra ‘if you think you need to know the facts before arguing something, you’re pompous’). [/QUOTE] Is that the extent of what \*\*Red \*\*has posted on the subject? It looks like a gratuitous insult to me, maybe in bad taste, but not a justification for imperialism. I think you’re extrapolating way beyond what that one sentence meant. If you’ve got more, let’s see it. \*\*XT \*\*seems to think there is, but wants others to search for it. Come on **XT**. You know that’s not the way things work around here. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-bush-apologists-and-a-hearty-fu/453440/66 "2008-06-19T19:52:25Z")
[QUOTE=FinnAgain] But props to you for admitting you’re a racist. [/QUOTE] Since I somewhat agree with him, can I please also get one of those labels you are distributing so freely. I always wanted to be a racist. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-bush-apologists-and-a-hearty-fu/453440/67 "2008-06-19T19:57:34Z")
[QUOTE=FinnAgain] The higher percentage of anti-Semitiic beliefs among Spaniards would be the proof of that. [/quote] Maybe this is grist for the other thread (or completely futile), but if you believe this, then you are not really interpreting the Journal of Conflict Resolution cite properly. Among other things, what the methodology does not capture at all are the interactions between the confounding effects. Spain is having a well-known immigrant crisis, so it is highly likely than anti-immigrant sentiment correlates highly with residence in Spain. Both will end up strong predictors of anti-Semitism by construction. Not to mention Spain’s high and growing Muslim population. More importantly, since the authors of the study use the odds ratio interpretation, it is all but impossible to compare the **magnitude** of effects across predictor variables. All you can do is look at the chi-squareds: the chi-squared for country is dwarfed by the anti-Israel index, largely exceeded by attitude towards immigrants, and performs really no better than religion. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-bush-apologists-and-a-hearty-fu/453440/68 "2008-06-19T19:58:39Z")
> [@](#): > > …But props to you for admitting you’re a racist… Dear\*\* Really\*\*: Welcome to **Finn’s List**! We are the club of Dopers who have been identified by **Dickosaurus Vex** as, racists and/or trolls, liars, anti-Semites and other affinity groups too numerous to list here. (The record for multiple identity is **Red Furry** , who is singularly identified as a drunk.) We have no plans for a gathering, as stadium space that exceeds 1,000 seats is prohibitively expensive, but we welcome you to our number with the calm assurance that you will find convivial company, if not exactly exclusive. Yours in amused disdain, **E.** ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-bush-apologists-and-a-hearty-fu/453440/69 "2008-06-19T20:00:27Z")
::_kicks dirt_:: Darn, I **never** get to be called racist troll or liar. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-bush-apologists-and-a-hearty-fu/453440/70 "2008-06-19T20:00:54Z")
[QUOTE=FinnAgain] And this is where we end this dance, as you’re bullshitting. I didn’t cite _my_ post as his support for Spanish imperialism, but _his post_. Ya know, the one where he said that Spanish imperialism was good, as it civilized the Aztecs? [/QUOTE] You mean the post where he was deliberately poking and needling **xt** by denigrating the native side of his latino heritage? You’re citing that as proof of how he really feels about Spanish imperialism? Seriously? I can understand it if it was a cite that **RF** can be an argumentative dick (as even he would admit, I’m sure) and nasty in a flamewar, but to think it says anything about how he really feels is a stretch, IMO. Plus yeah, the Aztecs deserved killing. Well, the ones doing the heart-rippy-thing, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-bush-apologists-and-a-hearty-fu/453440/71 "2008-06-19T20:01:57Z")
[QUOTE=Mighty\_Girl] Since I somewhat agree with him, can I please also get one of those labels you are distributing so freely. I always wanted to be a racist. [/QUOTE] I’m sorry, but admission to **Finn’s List** is strictly regulated. You must be directly identified by **Himself**. Given the calm and rational tone of your discourse, we are saving a seat for you in anticipation of your impending election. **E.** ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-bush-apologists-and-a-hearty-fu/453440/72 "2008-06-19T20:09:22Z")
[QUOTE=FinnAgain] Sorry, tinfoil hattist anti-Semitic conspiracy mongering is still anti-Semitic, and still isn’t factual. Yeah, those crafty Jews have been controlling Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld all along. I hear they even plot over a tombstone. But props to you for admitting you’re a racist. [/QUOTE] Dude, seriously? Lapsed Jew that I am, I get nothing from this administration. But Kristol, Podhoretz, Wolfowitz, Libby, Perle, Kristol, and others too numerous to name certainly have cashed in. Hell, even that raving anti-Semite Murray Friedman wrote a book about it. If it is anti-Semitic to say that there are a number of very powerful Jews out there who have had a great deal of influence on our foreign policy, well then fuck it, reality is anti-Semitic. It is no more inaccurate nor worse to observe that a lot of white males have had massive and even disproportionate impact on foreign policy. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-bush-apologists-and-a-hearty-fu/453440/73 "2008-06-19T20:11:13Z")
[QUOTE=FinnAgain] Sorry, tinfoil hattist anti-Semitic conspiracy mongering is still anti-Semitic, and still isn’t factual. Yeah, those crafty Jews have been controlling Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld all along. I hear they even plot over a tombstone. [/QUOTE] Let’s see if we can follow your logic here… Because the statement is “tinfoil hattery”, by which I presume\* you mean “crazy conspiracy theory”-type stuff, and “anti-Semitic”, it’s anti-Semitic. Well, that’s not circular reasoning at all. Also, “not factual”, by which presumably you mean America has always chosen which nations to provide military support to by… throwing darts at a map? Challenging the hopeful countries to a spelling bee? Help me out here. Funnily enough, I always thought it was based on voter preference. \*I don’t presume with much conviction, since I’m not sure you speak the same language as the rest of us. I must say, it’s awfully nice that somebody has finally stepped up to the plate and given me a label. I can now make the necessary changes and move on. By the way, you’re a child molester. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-bush-apologists-and-a-hearty-fu/453440/74 "2008-06-19T20:16:02Z")
Everytime I read a bunch of posts by **xistme** and **FinnAgain** I always feel like I’ve taken a trip to Idiotsville by way of the Crazy Land Express. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-bush-apologists-and-a-hearty-fu/453440/75 "2008-06-19T20:18:39Z")
Oh, by the way, **luci** , I have a few questions about my new affiliation. 1. Do we get decoder rings? 2. Since we’re racist, do we have, like, separate offices for each race? I mean, I’m of Indian descent, so obviously I refuse to share a room with you, whitey. Put me in with **ascenray**. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-bush-apologists-and-a-hearty-fu/453440/76 "2008-06-19T20:22:01Z")
[QUOTE=you with the face] Everytime I read a bunch of posts by **xistme** and **FinnAgain** I always feel like I’ve taken a trip to Idiotsville by way of the Crazy Land Express. [/QUOTE] Anything to make you feel at home. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-bush-apologists-and-a-hearty-fu/453440/77 "2008-06-19T20:27:55Z")
Also, what does the fashion-conscious racist wear these days? Is it still jackboots and shaved heads? I really hope not- that look just doesn’t work after April. Is it a major _faux pas_ if I go around stomping on the oppressed in flip-flops? It’s too fucking hot here for Doc Martens. Gosh. I hate it when I have to join a new clique. So many _rules_! ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-bush-apologists-and-a-hearty-fu/453440/78 "2008-06-19T20:29:35Z")
[QUOTE=wring] ::_kicks dirt_:: Darn, I **never** get to be called racist troll or liar. [/QUOTE] Well, it’s easy, **wring**. All you have to do is suggest that US foreign policy tilts a little too heavily in Israel’s direction. Then you wonder aloud if lobbying might be the reason. Then you mention AIPAC. Presto! Before you can say “Joe McCarthy,” **FinnAgain** will be along to call you a racist or a troll or a liar – your semi-official induction into the club. (Bonus troll points if you don’t think Iran is the greatest threat to civilization since bobbed hair.) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-bush-apologists-and-a-hearty-fu/453440/79 "2008-06-19T20:30:32Z")
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] Oh, by the way, **luci** , I have a few questions about my new affiliation. 1. Do we get decoder rings? 2. Since we’re racist, do we have, like, separate offices for each race? I mean, I’m of Indian descent, so obviously I refuse to share a room with you, whitey. Put me in with **ascenray**. [/QUOTE] No such rings are necessary, it is perfectly obvious what you meant to say. All such determinations are made by **Himself.** There is no discussion, and no appeal. Certainly no appeal. Rooms? Shit, we don’t even have enough _chairs!_ ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-bush-apologists-and-a-hearty-fu/453440/80 "2008-06-19T20:30:52Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] (Bonus troll points if you don’t think Iran is the greatest threat to civilization since bobbed hair.) [/QUOTE] I KNEW the Persians were in league with the Flappers! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-bush-apologists-and-a-hearty-fu/453440.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-bush-apologists-and-a-hearty-fu/453440.md?page=5)