# RedFury, Xploder: shame on you **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 18, 2005, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-xploder-shame-on-you/317536 "2005-08-18T03:31:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Spiritus\_Mundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Spiritus\_Mundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiritus_Mundi)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-xploder-shame-on-you/317536/201 "2005-08-22T02:07:52Z")
**wring** – I do not believe in silent letters. How about if I pronounce it like an ‘r’? ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-xploder-shame-on-you/317536/202 "2005-08-22T02:11:51Z")
> [@Spiritus Mundi](#): > > **wring** – I do not believe in silent letters. How about if I pronounce it like an ‘r’? rrrrr’ok r’eorge . 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-xploder-shame-on-you/317536/203 "2005-08-22T02:13:33Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > Yeh, it was about as vicious a comment as my pointing out that **Lib** could, if he wishes to, address all the arguments and ad hominems raised against him once his suspension is over. (I agree with you, by the way, that it would be a good idea if he didn’t, at least not in the context of this thread.) Er, nobody said spell and grammar checking is vicious (I hope I didn’t imply that). We’re saying it’s lame. ----- **Spiritus Mundi** is far from being the only person to make the statement that **Lib** can’t answer what’s being said about him now, which is one of those “Yeh, but…” statements that I felt ought to be clarified. I’ll see your Yeh but and raise you one. In practice, a swipe at an absent poster is basically going to just sit there. You’re correct that there’s some current controversy regarding the appropriateness of this behavior. ------- If **SM** has chosen to see my comments as an attack, that I feel says more about him than about me. Well, it looked _to me_ like a (lame) attack. I mean, c’mon, do you really think spell checking has any use in this context? “Kindergadeneres”: that appears to me to be a typo, not an error. If it was indeed an error, pointing it out seems off topic and not especially helpful. But hey, not everything I write is gem-quality either. ---
**Author:** ![Spiritus\_Mundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Spiritus\_Mundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiritus_Mundi)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-xploder-shame-on-you/317536/204 "2005-08-22T02:25:51Z")
> [@](#): > > You’re correct that there’s some current controversy regarding the appropriateness of this behavior. Is there really? You mean people seriously argue that it is acceptable to hurl insults at a person for 30 days while they cannot answer because after the fact said person could conceivably spend the effort to dredge up all of those past insults and give answer? WTF :smack: That’s like saying it’s okay to beat on a child because after he grows up he can come back and give you a fair fight. Why in the world would anyone want to keep slinging filth at someone who isn’t in the room, anyway? The mind boggles? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Spiritus\_Mundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Spiritus\_Mundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiritus_Mundi)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-xploder-shame-on-you/317536/205 "2005-08-22T02:38:14Z")
I found [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6494404&postcount=7) in a recent ATMB thread. > [@C K Dexter Haven](#): > > We have a different approach now, but we still don’t believe it’s appropriate to have disussions about people who are unable to post in their defense. > > Hence, the end of this thread. That would certainly seem to imply that throwing stones at suspended posters is still frowned upon. (I certainly hope so). ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-xploder-shame-on-you/317536/206 "2005-08-22T02:41:07Z")
> [@Spiritus Mundi](#): > > The tools at their disposal are limited, so they spew indiscriminate bile at the world. Should one of them demonstrate the capacity for honest exchange or self-reflection it would shock me greatly. **Spiritus** , it’s true that their tools, by and large, are no match for yours. But to express doubt, on so little evidence, that these posters lack capacity for honest exchange or self-reflection is rather smaller of you than I remember you being. While I agree that their dismissal of **Lib** ’s throwaway remark on mortality was too quick and too crude, I think clearly the interpretation that it was a rhetorical gambit is an _arguable_ one. I don’t agree with the conclusion, and I certainly don’t admire the way it was expressed, but I think if you’d started a thread to test the argument instead of to chastise the posters who leapt to it, then you might’ve created a better opportunity for them to exhibit those qualities you’d be so shocked to observe. It might’ve been even more interesting and exciting to see your return to the 'Dope in _that_ sort of a thread. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-xploder-shame-on-you/317536/207 "2005-08-22T02:51:49Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > It’s [spelled “kindergartners” or “kindergarteners”](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=kindergartener). Ok. It’s spelled with a “t”, not a “d”. Got it. It’s from the German. If ETF was actually trying to be helpful, then he was committing the lesser sin of _insufficient **softening** and **clarification** _. Ironically, that’s what I accused **Lib** of. ## Ironically, the previous sentence is an implicit attack on Lib which will just sit there. _On preview (before the Dexter quote)_: Yeah, it’s a matter of discussion. Here’s how it works. A poster gets banned. A thread is opened. **Lib** jumps in and says we shouldn’t talk about people when they can’t respond. It’s pointed out that he always says that. Round we go. Admittedly, I can’t recall anybody giving something like the ETF argument, but 30 day suspensions have only been around for a couple of months. I should add that threads about the recently banned have been a (mod frowned upon) staple of the SDMB, at least during my tenure. Here, I think, entropy tends to push the collective towards the boundaries of unbannable (or much less bannable) behavior. Lest I sound too morose, consider the alternative ignorance-fighting methods. I’m aware of few other venues that sustain a “Valid rhetorical conduct” ethos as well as ideological variety. Possible candidates include wikipedia and the 2 SDMB spinoffs. Are there others? ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-xploder-shame-on-you/317536/208 "2005-08-22T02:58:16Z")
> [@Measure for Measure](#): > > Er, nobody said spell and grammar checking is vicious (I hope I didn’t imply that). We’re saying it’s lame. Naw, I didn’t take it that way at all from you. Just feeling somewhat piqued at the (to me) unwarranted nastiness of **SM’s** response to my initial comment, wherein he chastised me for a perceived grammatical error while ignoring (or missing?) the point I was addressing – a point, I would argue, which is relevant to the discussion at hand, i.e., other Dopers’ treatment of **Lib**. > [@](#): > > ----- **Spiritus Mundi** is far from being the only person to make the statement that **Lib** can’t answer what’s being said about him now, which is one of those “Yeh, but…” statements that I felt ought to be clarified. > > I’ll see your Yeh but and raise you one. In practice, a swipe at an absent poster is basically going to just sit there. You’re correct that there’s some current controversy regarding the appropriateness of this behavior. And you are correct that taking swipes at the absent, even though they can pick up the cudgels at a later date, is not a desirable course – one which I have refrained from once I was aware of the suspension. But I do perceive a difference between banning and suspension on this matter. I’m also aware that the administration prefers that such behavior not take place. > [@](#): > > ------- If **SM** has chosen to see my comments as an attack, that I feel says more about him than about me. > > Well, it looked _to me_ like a (lame) attack. I mean, c’mon, do you really think spell checking has any use in this context? “Kindergadeneres”: that appears to me to be a typo, not an error. If it was indeed an error, pointing it out seems off topic and not especially helpful. But hey, not everything I write is gem-quality either. Nor am I an error-free poster, by any means. If you perceived my comments as attacks, I apologize for framing them so poorly as to imply a vitriol I do not intend. _On preview_\* \*\*Measure for Measure, I’m a she, not a he. ---
**Author:** ![Spiritus\_Mundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Spiritus\_Mundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiritus_Mundi)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-xploder-shame-on-you/317536/209 "2005-08-22T03:00:21Z")
Ponit taken, **xenophon**. Nobody likes having their behavior questioned. But I really was not interested in starting a thread exploring teh true state of **liberal’s** health. It was, and remains, not a curiosity I felt entitled to explore. > [@](#): > > to express doubt, on so little evidence, that these posters lack capacity for honest exchange or self-reflection is rather smaller of you than I remember you being. I have several pages of evidence with no contrary data points. I may indeed be shocked, and it would be a pleasant shock, but I remain pessimistic. > [@](#): > > It might’ve been even more interesting and exciting to see your return to the 'Dope in that sort of a thread. Well, I posted in a few other threads prior to starting this one, but I must agree with your point. I would have preferred to be spending this time on a more interesting discussion as well. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-xploder-shame-on-you/317536/210 "2005-08-22T03:01:37Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > _On preview_\* \*\*Measure for Measure, I’m a she, not a he. You know, it’s embarrassing enough to screw up one’s coding; it’s damned humiliating to do it in an “On preview” comment. :o ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-xploder-shame-on-you/317536/211 "2005-08-22T03:05:00Z")
**SM** - I’d just like to note that my criticism was offered in the knowledge that I live in a glass house myself, and purely in the spirit of fairness. Possibly misguided, but I have a bit more faith in the capacities of those named than you appear to. And I have well founded faith in _your_ capacities. Welcome back, in any case! ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-xploder-shame-on-you/317536/212 "2005-08-22T03:10:09Z")
I sincerely hope I’m not alone in gradually coming to the conclusion that if there are to be feelings of shame among us, Spiritus Mundi could start once he realizes that he’s gradually devolved into a great flaming jackass. ---
**Author:** ![Spiritus\_Mundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Spiritus\_Mundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiritus_Mundi)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-xploder-shame-on-you/317536/213 "2005-08-22T03:14:26Z")
**EddyTeddyFreddy** Your initial post did appear to me as simply someone sniping at me with a trivial grammatical correction (mostly because it never occured to me that anyone would seriously proffer the argument that that it was okay to attack a poster during a 30 day suspension since that poster could always respond the next month.) I answered in the same vein, and since you say that your post was in fact a serious attempt at debate I apologize to you for that tone. I find it curious, though, why you felt it necessary to raise that point in answer to my sentence, _“Nothing like calling a man names when he cannot answer, I guess.”_ After all, I was not making a point about the duration of **liberal’s** inability to respond. My point was clearly that I felt such sniping was unworthy. In your last post, you also express this opinion. > [@](#): > > And you are correct that taking swipes at the absent, even though they can pick up the cudgels at a later date, is not a desirable course – one which I have refrained from once I was aware of the suspension. So . . . I find myself still confused about exactly what point you were trying to make? After all, I had already commented that **liberal** was suspended and not banned, so there would appear to be no need to clarify that point. Can you enlighten me? Oh, and while your at it could you tell me what debate point you were trying to raise with the corrected spelling of “kindergarteners”? ---
**Author:** ![Spiritus\_Mundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Spiritus\_Mundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiritus_Mundi)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-xploder-shame-on-you/317536/214 "2005-08-22T03:17:09Z")
No worries, **xeno**. It’s good to see you again. ---
**Author:** ![Spiritus\_Mundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Spiritus\_Mundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiritus_Mundi)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-xploder-shame-on-you/317536/215 "2005-08-22T03:19:10Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > I sincerely hope I’m not alone in gradually coming to the conclusion that if there are to be feelings of shame among us, Spiritus Mundi could start once he realizes that he’s gradually devolved into a great flaming jackass. Please elucidate. I am sure that learning the details of your ethical judgments will be educational. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-xploder-shame-on-you/317536/216 "2005-08-22T03:25:51Z")
> [@Spiritus Mundi](#): > > Please elucidate. I am sure that learning the details of your ethical judgments will be educational. Oh, it’s hardly a matter of ethics. Jackassery laughs at the self-imposed straitjackets of ethical behaviour, then it kicks over the dessert table and drunkenly sings Karaoke at 110 dB. ---
**Author:** ![Spiritus\_Mundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Spiritus\_Mundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiritus_Mundi)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-xploder-shame-on-you/317536/217 "2005-08-22T03:29:52Z")
How compelling. It’s always a joy to see people stretch their limits. ---
**Author:** ![Hakuna\_Matata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@Hakuna\_Matata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hakuna_Matata)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-xploder-shame-on-you/317536/218 "2005-08-22T03:34:52Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Possibly that they enabled him to spend more quality time with his loved ones rather than in pointless and interminable arguments on a anonymous message board. wow–the only compelling argument in this whole trainwreck. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-xploder-shame-on-you/317536/219 "2005-08-22T03:38:48Z")
> [@Spiritus Mundi](#): > > Nothing like calling a man names when he cannot answer, I guess. Oh-fucking-wah. You think I’m going to feel bad because, what? Our resident drama queen is being a drama queen? I was expressing an opinion about a flaming asshole. It’s the same opinion I had when he was posting here, and it’s the same one I’ll have when he gets yet another reprieve because he’s apparently the SDMB mascot. You want to keep defending the asshole, go ahead. Doesn’t change the fact that he’s an asshole. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2005, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-xploder-shame-on-you/317536/220 "2005-08-22T03:46:10Z")
> [@Xploder](#): > > My apologies for suggesting that you were a sock. You’ve apologized, **Xploder** , but you knew perfectly well sock accusations were out of line. Don’t do it again. TVeblen [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-xploder-shame-on-you/317536.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redfury-xploder-shame-on-you/317536.md?page=12)