# Redneck is a racist term **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [March 2, 2009, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redneck-is-a-racist-term/488053 "2009-03-02T20:24:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redneck-is-a-racist-term/488053/81 "2009-03-03T17:39:58Z")
> [@Terrifel](#): > > Actually, I’ve thought about it a bit more and decided that the OP is right. A Google search for “redneck” makes it apparent that the term is specific to white people (I think I recognized some acquaintances in the Image search). [Wikipedia’s definition:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redneck) The article also helpfully offers a list of synonyms and variants, including “peckerwood,” “goat roper,” “Swamp Yankee” and “caipira,” which I believe is a giant hamster from the Amazon.. That’s a capybara. Stereotypically Caucasian does not mean definitely Caucasian. ---
**Author:** ![DudleyGarrett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DudleyGarrett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DudleyGarrett)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redneck-is-a-racist-term/488053/82 "2009-03-03T17:47:19Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > That’s a capybara. > > Stereotypically Caucasian does not mean definitely Caucasian. Tell me. What is the overwhelmingly common target group that are called “rednecks?” What if you went to a town that’s commonly described as being “full of rednecks” only to discover that it’s really mostly Asian? Honestly, what would you think to yourself? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redneck-is-a-racist-term/488053/83 "2009-03-03T18:10:00Z")
> [@DudleyGarrett](#): > > Tell me. What is the overwhelmingly common target group that are called “rednecks?” White folk. So what? You don’t _have_ to be white to be a redneck, though. ---
**Author:** ![DudleyGarrett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DudleyGarrett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DudleyGarrett)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redneck-is-a-racist-term/488053/84 "2009-03-03T18:14:28Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > White folk. So what? > > You don’t _have_ to be white to be a redneck, though. Answer my second question. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redneck-is-a-racist-term/488053/85 "2009-03-03T18:30:28Z")
> [@DudleyGarrett](#): > > Answer my second question. I would think it was freakin’ weird. However, if you told me that [Asian person] was a redneck, and I met him and he was chewing Skoal and driving a '78 Trans Am, I wouldn’t bat an eyelid. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redneck-is-a-racist-term/488053/86 "2009-03-03T19:02:14Z")
> [@Terrifel](#): > > So I concede that “redneck” is indeed racist, and in an ideal world would be treated the same as any other racist language. On the other hand, in an ideal world there wouldn’t be any racist language to begin with, so that’s no help. The fact that most rednecks are white doesn’t necessarily prove that redneck is a racist term. In this case, race is incidental. It’s an insult intended for a certain population for a number of different perceived traits, but race is not one of those traits. The most obvious proof of this is the fact that the term was invented by white people, to describe an economic and cultural subgroup of white people. It’s not a term intended to create divisions by race, but divisions by wealth within a particular race. ---
**Author:** ![DudleyGarrett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DudleyGarrett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DudleyGarrett)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redneck-is-a-racist-term/488053/87 "2009-03-03T19:09:54Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I would think it was freakin’ weird. However, if you told me that [Asian person] was a redneck, and I met him and he was chewing Skoal and driving a '78 Trans Am, I wouldn’t bat an eyelid. I would think it was weird, too, because I and most people have the idea in our heads a major characteristic of “redneck” is whiteness. I think that most people use the term “redneck” with race very much in mind. Because of that, I’m having a hard time reconciling that it’s not a racist term. We can get into formal definitions of the word all day long, but it still doesn’t excuse that the term is most often used to negatively describe a subset of WHITE people. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redneck-is-a-racist-term/488053/88 "2009-03-03T19:17:18Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It doesn’t refer to a race, it refers (at worst) to a social class, and it has no history of being used by non-whites to impose power on whites. It’s mostly used BY whites. Trying to call it hate speech is ridiculous. Comparing it to “nigger” is either massively ignorant or intentionally disingenuous. You know, “nigger” is likely the most powerful single racial term out there. So, yes, no other term can really be compared to it. There are still plenty of less offensive terms tha tpeople should not use and are banned here. For example “Jap” is pretty mild, but we have had it’s use discouraged by staff. And in some cases “Jap” _isn’t_ a racist term, it is used by people of Japanese descent (and others) to refer to certain motorcycles as a slang term = “Jap bike”. It’s also pretty mild, clearly a mere shortening of the word “Japanese”. But still, in many contexts, it’s also meant derogitively. So, it appears to be out, in most usages anyway. So, rather than the idea that “redneck” or “Honkey” are as “bad” as “nigger”- let us compare those terms to “jap”. Redneck\* could\* be a socio-economic term, sometimes, and that is how it is defended here. But “honkey” and “whiteboy” can not be defended as refering to a economic grouping, but yet they apparently will still be allowed. So the defence of “redneck” based upon it’s sometimes use as a _socio-economic term_ is also disingenuous. It appears that from the responses here by Marley, that \*no term at all \*that refers to the white majority here in Amercia can be considered hate speech. I can see an occasional in context usage of “Redneck” as acceptable (just like “Jap”). But can anyone defend “Honkey” or “whiteboy” as anything but hate speech? ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redneck-is-a-racist-term/488053/89 "2009-03-03T19:19:30Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > The fact that most rednecks are white doesn’t necessarily prove that redneck is a racist term. In this case, race is incidental. It’s an insult intended for a certain population for a number of different perceived traits, but race is not one of those traits. The most obvious proof of this is the fact that the term was invented by white people, to describe an economic and cultural subgroup of white people. It’s not a term intended to create divisions by race, but divisions by wealth within a particular race. I dunno. It’s a derogatory term that is race-specific in common usage. The fact that it’s directed against a particular class of white people just means that it’s classist as well as racist. I don’t know whether the significance of the word’s origin trumps how the word is actually used now. Context is a big factor. The term “Uncle Tom” coined by a white woman, and I daresay it carries different weight depending on whether it’s used by one black person against another, or by a white guy like Ralph Nader. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redneck-is-a-racist-term/488053/90 "2009-03-03T19:28:23Z")
> [@DudleyGarrett](#): > > We can get into formal definitions of the word all day long, but it still doesn’t excuse that the term is most often used to negatively describe a subset of WHITE people. Which I agreed with above. However, I can’t think of another racial slur which doesn’t _necessarily_ apply to a specific racial group. Can you? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redneck-is-a-racist-term/488053/91 "2009-03-03T19:33:44Z")
I guess, on reflection, it doesn’t matter if it doesn’t offend me; it matters if it seriously offends other people. If the OP considers it truly objectionable, ban it. ---
**Author:** ![DudleyGarrett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DudleyGarrett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DudleyGarrett)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redneck-is-a-racist-term/488053/92 "2009-03-03T19:40:34Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Which I agreed with above. However, I can’t think of another racial slur which doesn’t _necessarily_ apply to a specific racial group. Can you? Well, this is a little hard, I suppose. Can you give me a list of races? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redneck-is-a-racist-term/488053/93 "2009-03-03T19:43:32Z")
> [@Terrifel](#): > > I dunno. It’s a derogatory term that is race-specific in common usage. The fact that it’s directed against a particular class of white people just means that it’s classist as well as racist. I don’t think your logic follows. Look at it this way: everyone who could be described by the word “nigger” is a human being. Does this mean that “nigger” is insulting to all humans? No, of course not. The term describes a specific subset of the human race. Calling someone a “nigger” isn’t a “speciesist” insult, even though everyone it’s used against is of the same species. > [@](#): > > I don’t know whether the significance of the word’s origin trumps how the word is actually used now. Context is a big factor. The term “Uncle Tom” coined by a white woman, and I daresay it carries different weight depending on whether it’s used by one black person against another, or by a white guy like Ralph Nader. I agree that the origins of a term are not the end-all of definition, but I don’t think the usage of “redneck” has shifted significantly from its origins. And as I said in my first post, it certainly can be used as a blanket derogatory term for all white people, depending on the context. But that applies to any term: if I say that I got a deal on Craig’s List by Jewing the other guy down, I’ve just used “Jew” in a racially derogatory manner. That doesn’t make “Jew” intrinsically derogatory, though. > [@Really Not All That Bright](#): > > I guess, on reflection, it doesn’t matter if it doesn’t offend me; it matters if it seriously offends other people. If the OP considers it truly objectionable, ban it. If the yardstick for banning terms is that it insults at least one person, we’re going to run out of acceptable words around here real quick. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redneck-is-a-racist-term/488053/94 "2009-03-03T20:46:09Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I don’t think your logic follows. Look at it this way: everyone who could be described by the word “nigger” is a human being. Does this mean that “nigger” is insulting to all humans? No, of course not. The term describes a specific subset of the human race. Calling someone a “nigger” isn’t a “speciesist” insult, even though everyone it’s used against is of the same species. > > I agree that the origins of a term are not the end-all of definition, but I don’t think the usage of “redneck” has shifted significantly from its origins. And as I said in my first post, it certainly can be used as a blanket derogatory term for all white people, depending on the context. But that applies to any term: if I say that I got a deal on Craig’s List by Jewing the other guy down, I’ve just used “Jew” in a racially derogatory manner. That doesn’t make “Jew” intrinsically derogatory, though. These are good points. At heart, I suspect that defining racism is ultimately a quagmire because the popular concept of race itself is fairly senseless to begin with. I guess I really need to reconcile myself to uncertainty, and accept that I may or may not be racist when I make fun of rednecks. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redneck-is-a-racist-term/488053/95 "2009-03-03T21:13:44Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > There are plenty of nasty words for white people and in some contexts some of them would draw a warning here. I can’t think of one that counts as the kind of hate speech that’s described by federal law, though. A little more ignorance-fighting from a running GQ thread – [any potential federal and state laws against hate speech were ruled unconstitutional in 1992](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10899517&postcount=4). That, I didn’t know going in to our discussion. Thought it might have been on some state books. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redneck-is-a-racist-term/488053/96 "2009-03-03T21:19:08Z")
Interesting, and I wondered about the constitutional issues there, but it doesn’t really affect things here. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redneck-is-a-racist-term/488053/97 "2009-03-03T21:22:51Z")
> [@DudleyGarrett](#): > > Well, this is a little hard, I suppose. Can you give me a list of races? You can’t have it both ways. Is white not a race, then? ---
**Author:** ![DudleyGarrett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DudleyGarrett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DudleyGarrett)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redneck-is-a-racist-term/488053/98 "2009-03-03T21:29:53Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > You can’t have it both ways. Is white not a race, then? You stated that you “can’t think of another racial slur which doesn’t necessarily apply to a specific racial group.” Then you asked if I could. You need to give me some parameters, here, i.e., races. For example, I can think of lots of slurs that apply only to subnets of Asians, primarily based on country of origin. Do you consider Asian to be a race? If I called someone a “nip,” would you consider that racist? I realize the differences between “nip” and “redneck,” but I’m curious as to your answer. Also, please refrain from cropping my mosts. I’d like not for my quoted words to be taken out of context. Thanks. (edit: you didn’t do this for the last post, but you have all along and it’s tad annoying) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redneck-is-a-racist-term/488053/99 "2009-03-03T21:47:34Z")
> [@DudleyGarrett](#): > > You stated that you “can’t think of another racial slur which doesn’t necessarily apply to a specific racial group.” Then you asked if I could. You need to give me some parameters, here, i.e., races. > > For example, I can think of lots of slurs that apply only to subnets of Asians, primarily based on country of origin. Do you consider Asian to be a race? If I called someone a “nip,” would you consider that racist? I realize the differences between “nip” and “redneck,” but I’m curious as to your answer. > > Also, please refrain from cropping my mosts. I’d like not for my quoted words to be taken out of context. Thanks. (edit: you didn’t do this for the last post, but you have all along and it’s tad annoying) You’re missing the point. It’s not whether Slur X only applies to a subset of a given group, it’s whether Slur X can apply to members of other groups too. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2009, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redneck-is-a-racist-term/488053/100 "2009-03-03T22:15:44Z")
I would guess that the term “nigger” has been used, at one point or another over the last couple hundred years, to describe members of pretty much every dark-skinned race on the planet: Polynesians, Indians, etc. I recall that the charming epithet “sand-nigger” was frequently bandied about post-9/11. [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigger) seems to bear out my suspicions: > [@](#): > > In the United Kingdom and other parts of the English-speaking world, the word was often used to refer to darker skinned peoples colonized by the British Empire, or merely to darker-skinned foreigners in general; in his 1926 Modern English Usage, H. W. Fowler observed that when the word was applied to “others than full or partial negroes,” it was “felt as an insult by the person described, & betrays in the speaker, if not deliberate insolence, at least a very arrogant inhumanity.” Also, in addition to “sand-nigger” for Arabs, “timber nigger” refers to Native Americans. Weird. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redneck-is-a-racist-term/488053.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redneck-is-a-racist-term/488053.md?page=6)