# Redo Star Trek: TNG so it makes sense (or at least is less stupid) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 10, 2009, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tng-so-it-makes-sense-or-at-least-is-less-stupid/485235 "2009-02-10T16:24:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tng-so-it-makes-sense-or-at-least-is-less-stupid/485235/81 "2009-02-12T19:30:07Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Well, he wasn’t a prototype. Early on it was revealed that Lore preceded him, and in the last movie we meet still a third Soong-type android who preceded Lore. And Data’s “mother,” Julianna, noted that they had built several androids. That’s why I said Lore was the “older” brother. > [@](#): > > And, of course, Soong had been working on it for a logn time. The Soong _family_ had been working on the notion since the mid-22nd century. This I wasn’t aware of. I assumed the Dr. soong was one of those rare prodigy/geniuses that comes along once every couple centuries. Unmeasurable on standard IQ tests… etc. > [@](#): > > Nor was Data an unqualified success. Despite what Lore suggested, the inability to consistently use contractions wasn’t a feature; it was a bug. (Hence the occasional cropping up of an “isn’t” in Data’s speech.) I don’t think the “lack” of emotion was intentional either. I assumed that Soong did not include emotions in Data, because of what they did to Lore (unpredictability, instability, or something). Contractions was mentioned, but then forgotten. (I don’t recall Data being shown speaking another language. Surely, he would be capable. Hmmm.) Are you telling me that with all the wonderfull things Data _can_ do, his failure with contractions keeps him from being a resounding success? Would you settle for mildly godlike? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tng-so-it-makes-sense-or-at-least-is-less-stupid/485235/82 "2009-02-12T19:35:01Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > I assumed the Dr. soong was one of those rare prodigy/geniuses that comes along once every couple centuries. Unmeasurable on standard IQ tests… etc. Which nevertheless seem to occur at a rate of about 1 every two years in the _Star Trek_ universe. ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tng-so-it-makes-sense-or-at-least-is-less-stupid/485235/83 "2009-02-12T19:36:01Z")
Hey, has anyone mentioned ensuring that attractive female crew members should often be shown naked, or somewhere near it? > [@choie](#): > > As you see I’m not so much about the SCIENCE FICTION as I am about the characters. ST has never been all that sci-fi and more about analogies to contemporary society/politics. Not to step on the OP’s toes, but if you haven’t seen the new _BSG_ (start with the Miniseries), you really, really should. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tng-so-it-makes-sense-or-at-least-is-less-stupid/485235/84 "2009-02-12T19:49:53Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > The _Enterprise_, which must weight dozens of million of tons, should be much much sluggish than, say, _Voyager_, which is probably an eighth as massive but as a similar engine (if somewhat smaller). Likewise _Voyager_ shouldn’t be as manueverable as the _Defiant_. But the Federation has energy out the wazoo. If they can accelerate something as massive as the Enterprise to many, many multiples of lightspeed, then they have the energy to turn that puppy on the proverbial dime. M/AM engines make staid old physics go bye-bye. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tng-so-it-makes-sense-or-at-least-is-less-stupid/485235/85 "2009-02-12T19:54:29Z")
> [@Prelude\_to\_Fascination](#): > > You’ve got a mixed gender (and mixed species) crew onboard a ship for a multi-year mission. Things are going to happen, and families are part of that. But I also see what you’re saying. TOS had that also, but back then they knew how to use birth control. Probably in the food. The kids on board annoy me also. In one of the early episodes where they are freezing to death Dr. Crusher tells Picard that she will give the unseen Wesley a sedative so he will sleep through it, but Picard tells her that he should be allowed to face death awake. Maybe they have a different view of the role of kids than we do. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tng-so-it-makes-sense-or-at-least-is-less-stupid/485235/86 "2009-02-12T20:11:26Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > I don’t recall Data being shown speaking another language. Surely, he would be capable. [geek hat on] He speaks French to the gambler in “Time’s Arrow,” the episode with Mark Twain. It’s understandable that you may have purged this episode from your brain. [/geek hat off] ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tng-so-it-makes-sense-or-at-least-is-less-stupid/485235/87 "2009-02-12T20:22:01Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Problem 1: This week, the Enterprise is on the edge of explored space, duking it out with an alien menace. The next, it’s in orbit around Earth or Vulcan. There was very little attempt to portray any “vastness” from episode to episode. True, but I’m assuming in my redo (and in most of our versions) the sense of exploration / going where no one has gone before would be pumped up. Actually, I don’t think there were as many Earth/Vulcan episodes as you’re making it sound. Surely the majority of episodes were to new or lesser-known areas? Maybe my memory’s off, though. > [@](#): > > Problem 2: People may take up a risky career for themselves, but few (humans, anyway) want to expose loved ones (and especially their kids) to new and unknown risks. But you could say the same thing about pioneer families. I would (and did) assume that the families on board were those who had decided that the adventures and educational aspects of the expedition were worth the risk. Perhaps both adults were in Starfleet. > [@](#): > > Problem 3: Barring more “miracle tech”, unproductive relatives represent a non-mission-critical drain on a ships resources. And, an avoidable one. Again, I just always figured both adults in the couples were generally Starfleet members who were working on board. I don’t remember seeing any adults who _weren’t_ Starfleet on board; am I forgetting someone? They all wore uniforms, right? I know Keiko (post-TNG) seemed to have been retconned out of Starfleet, but maybe she resigned after Molly was born? Even if not, it would be possible to show that all adults were, in some way, involved in supporting the ‘society’ of the ship – again, like pioneer families, each member of which had his or her own job to do. Sort of like how Keiko (who seemed to have resigned, as I mentioned above) was a teacher on DS9. This would give us the sense that everyone was a part of the mission and did his or her share. Maybe this would mean showing the “inner workings” of the ship’s community more often. > [@](#): > > But it was an open secret that the actress lost her job for appearing in Playboy. So, if Mrs. Crosby had NOT appeared in the magazine, she might have probably stayed on for the whole show. (She was kinda redundant with Worf… Hmmm.) This lessens the impression you talk about, for me, anyway. Really? I don’t think your average viewer knew of the Playboy thing. Without the web, we lacked intimate knowledge of such behind-the-scenes intrigue. Honestly, this is the first I’m hearing of this, and I’m more than a casual viewer! I’ve always figured it was 'cause Denise Crosby’s Tasha kinda sucked the life out of every scene she was in, plus the benefit of adding such a jolt to the audience’s expectations. > [@Troy McClure SF](#): > > Not to step on the OP’s toes, but if you haven’t seen the new BSG (start with the Miniseries), you really, really should. I haven’t, actually. I probably should, since I’m a big fan of Moore’s work in TNG and especially DS9. (I remember being able to discuss DS9 eps with him in the old days of AOL’s message boards, when DS9 was still on.) But BSG intimidates me for some reason. I feel like it’s almost _too_ heavy, at least from all I’ve heard. I really should give it a try, though; I promise I will. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tng-so-it-makes-sense-or-at-least-is-less-stupid/485235/88 "2009-02-12T20:43:09Z")
> [@](#): > > But you could say the same thing about pioneer families. I would (and did) assume that the families on board were those who had decided that the adventures and educational aspects of the expedition were worth the risk. Perhaps both adults were in Starfleet. Pioneer families were looking for a new life, a new place to live. Not so, Beverly Crusher. I have to assume that the families that showed up in the TNG we got were there voluntarily, but still: How many soldiers, airmen, and marines would want to bring their families to the Green Zone in Bahgdad? heh. I guess the deciding factor is: Just how dangerous is Star Fleet service, and exploration? > [@](#): > > Again, I just always figured both adults in the couples were generally Starfleet members who were working on board. I don’t remember seeing any adults who weren’t Starfleet on board; am I forgetting someone? They all wore uniforms, right? I know Keiko (post-TNG) seemed to have been retconned out of Starfleet, but maybe she resigned after Molly was born? I don’t think Keiko was every a member of Star Fleet, except maybe as a private contractor. Wesley Crusher, in the very first show, was just a dependent embarked. He became an “acting” Ensign later on, presumadely voluntarily, when he wouldn’t stay out from underfoot. Guinan was an independent contractor, not in SF service. The Bolian barber “Mot” was a civilian. Off the top of my head. > [@](#): > > Really? I don’t think your average viewer knew of the Playboy thing. Without the web, we lacked intimate knowledge of such behind-the-scenes intrigue. Honestly, this is the first I’m hearing of this, and I’m more than a casual viewer! I’ve always figured it was 'cause Denise Crosby’s Tasha kinda sucked the life out of every scene she was in, plus the benefit of adding such a jolt to the audience’s expectations. Well, I’m neither confirming, nor denying, my ever having a Playboy subscription and all… but her Playboy shoot is mentioned in her wikipedia entry. However, they do not mention a connection between that and her leaving the show. Possibly, my friends and I may have jumped to the wrong conclusions. Paramount can be VERY protective of the franchise, and I think a Playboy shoot scandal might have caused them to worry that ST would not be seen as family friendly anymore. (Consider the Janet Jackson/Super bowl bru-ha-ha, for example.) ---
**Author:** ![Rube\_E.Tewesday](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f0a364/32.png) [@Rube\_E.Tewesday](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rube_E.Tewesday)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tng-so-it-makes-sense-or-at-least-is-less-stupid/485235/89 "2009-02-12T20:58:04Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Well, I’m neither confirming, nor denying, my ever having a Playboy subscription and all… but her Playboy shoot is mentioned in her wikipedia entry. However, they do not mention a connection between that and her leaving the show. Possibly, my friends and I may have jumped to the wrong conclusions. Paramount can be VERY protective of the franchise, and I think a Playboy shoot scandal might have caused them to worry that ST would not be seen as family friendly anymore. > > (Consider the Janet Jackson/Super bowl bru-ha-ha, for example.) I don’t remember any talk of a connection between her leaving and the Playboy shoot at the time, although I could have easily missed it. I know that Marina Sirtis seriously considered a Playboy shoot while the series was on and let Brent Spiner talk her out of it (on the grounds she wouldn’t be seen as a “serious actress”:rolleyes:), so I don’t think it could have been that big a deal. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tng-so-it-makes-sense-or-at-least-is-less-stupid/485235/90 "2009-02-12T20:59:22Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > But the Federation has energy out the wazoo. If they can accelerate something as massive as the Enterprise to many, many multiples of lightspeed, then they have the energy to turn that puppy on the proverbial dime. M/AM engines make staid old physics go bye-bye. From Memory-Alpha: “Warp drive is a technology that allows space travel at faster-than-light speeds. It does this by generating warp fields to form a subspace bubble that envelops the starship, distorting the local spacetime continuum and moving the starship at velocities that exceed the speed of light. These velocities are referred to as warp factors.” “The impulse drive is a propulsion system used for sublight speeds. In Federation starships, the impulse drive is essentially an augmented fusion rocket, usually consisting of one or more fusion reactors, an accelerator-generator, a driver coil assembly and a vectored thrust nozzle to direct the plasma exhaust.” Thrusters appear to be used for very low speed applications: [http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Thrusters](http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Thrusters) , like docking maneuvers, and uses charged particles that are a by-product of the warp reactor, but not the energy generated by the reactor itself. I can’t recall any in-show dialog that establishes if warp drives can be used to change direction, how responsive they are, etc. It’s possible that they use a combination of the three different drives to maneuver (change course) while in warp. _shrug_ Or… more probably whatever the plot requires at the time. Even combat in space is not consistant. They imply that battles happen at sublight (allowing the “Pickard manuever” to actually work) in one episode, then in others they are clearly at warp duking it out. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tng-so-it-makes-sense-or-at-least-is-less-stupid/485235/91 "2009-02-12T20:59:58Z")
> [@Rube\_E.Tewesday](#): > > I don’t remember any talk of a connection between her leaving and the Playboy shoot at the time, although I could have easily missed it. I know that Marina Sirtis seriously considered a Playboy shoot while the series was on and let Brent Spiner talk her out of it (on the grounds she wouldn’t be seen as a “serious actress”:rolleyes:), so I don’t think it could have been that big a deal. Well, damn. I liked Brent Spiner. I liked seeing him in ID4 and he was a big reason I watched Threshold. Now he’s dead to me. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tng-so-it-makes-sense-or-at-least-is-less-stupid/485235/92 "2009-02-12T21:01:10Z")
> [@Rube\_E.Tewesday](#): > > I don’t remember any talk of a connection between her leaving and the Playboy shoot at the time, although I could have easily missed it. I know that Marina Sirtis seriously considered a Playboy shoot while the series was on and let Brent Spiner talk her out of it (on the grounds she wouldn’t be seen as a “serious actress”:rolleyes:), so I don’t think it could have been that big a deal. Not that big a deal to you or me, but it would be to those who reacted negatively to the JJ affair. Paramount surely wants to target as broad an audience as possible, right? ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tng-so-it-makes-sense-or-at-least-is-less-stupid/485235/93 "2009-02-12T21:16:33Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > I have to assume that the families that showed up in the TNG we got were there voluntarily, but still: How many soldiers, airmen, and marines would want to bring their families to the Green Zone in Bahgdad? heh. > > I guess the deciding factor is: Just how dangerous is Star Fleet service, and exploration? It’s pretty risky but I don’t think it’s akin to the Green Zone. Starfleet isn’t a military unit. Re: Keiko, Guinan and Mot, those are good examples of adults who (even if not in Starfleet) were taking part in the community of the ship by working on board, not just dead weight. So I just don’t see a problem as long as everyone’s got a role to play. Even Wesley. 🙂 > [@](#): > > Well, I’m neither confirming, nor denying, my ever having a Playboy subscription and all… but her Playboy shoot is mentioned in her wikipedia entry. However, they do not mention a connection between that and her leaving the show. Possibly, my friends and I may have jumped to the wrong conclusions. Paramount can be VERY protective of the franchise, and I think a Playboy shoot scandal might have caused them to worry that ST would not be seen as family friendly anymore. Oh, I’m not saying that it might not have been the reason. The statement I was objecting to was the idea that the death wasn’t a big deal on how the audience viewed the possible dangers undergone by the crew since it was an ‘open secret’ that Crosby had been fired because of the _Playboy_ thing. Rather, what I meant was that I believe most of us watching at the time didn’t know why she was fired (or even if she was “fired” as opposed to this being a planned storyline twist), and thus the death in the first season shook us out of the “everything will always work out for our crew” complacency we’d all had thanks to TOS. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tng-so-it-makes-sense-or-at-least-is-less-stupid/485235/94 "2009-02-12T21:28:25Z")
> [@choie](#): > > It’s pretty risky but I don’t think it’s akin to the Green Zone. Starfleet isn’t a military unit. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > Re: Keiko, Guinan and Mot, those are good examples of adults who (even if not in Starfleet) were taking part in the community of the ship by working on board, not just dead weight. So I just don’t see a problem as long as everyone’s got a role to play. Even Wesley. 🙂 Are you going to force them to work? What if they don’t want to? > [@](#): > > Oh, I’m not saying that it might not have been the reason. The statement I was objecting to was the idea that the death wasn’t a big deal on how the audience viewed the possible dangers undergone by the crew since it was an ‘open secret’ that Crosby had been fired because of the _Playboy_ thing. Rather, what I meant was that I believe most of us watching at the time didn’t know why she was fired (or even if she was “fired” as opposed to this being a planned storyline twist), and thus the death in the first season shook us out of the “everything will always work out for our crew” complacency we’d all had thanks to TOS. Right. But it didn’t shake up those who knew of the Playboy thing, because we assumed Paramount was reacting (negatively) to Mrs. Crosby’s extra-curricular activities. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tng-so-it-makes-sense-or-at-least-is-less-stupid/485235/95 "2009-02-12T21:46:51Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > :rolleyes: Oooh, burn! I seem to have stepped on a fanboy toe. My apologies. Look, the Federation was usually not at war, and most missions were peaceful. Equating life on board the Enterprise with active service in the Iraq war seems off to me. > [@](#): > > Are you going to force them to work? What if they don’t want to? Then they aren’t allowed on board. The privilege of having the family on board demands participation in the ship. Why is this so hard to fathom? What else are these spouses doing all day, lounging around? Are you really saying that there were adults on board that don’t play a role in the ship’s activities and never have? > [@](#): > > Right. But it didn’t shake up those who knew of the Playboy thing, because we assumed Paramount was reacting (negatively) to Mrs. Crosby’s extra-curricular activities. That’s too bad. I’m sorry you missed out by being one of the tiny percentage of folks who were, at the time, aware of what happened. Or what may have happened. Or what you thought may have happened. For the rest of us it was pretty damn cool. ---
**Author:** ![Jolly\_Roger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Jolly\_Roger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jolly_Roger)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tng-so-it-makes-sense-or-at-least-is-less-stupid/485235/96 "2009-02-12T22:02:07Z")
> [@choie](#): > > It’s pretty risky but I don’t think it’s akin to the Green Zone. Starfleet isn’t a military unit. > > . For various reasons thats one of the stupidest things in Trekdom. I believe it was Roddenberry’s idea, and well, its a bad one. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tng-so-it-makes-sense-or-at-least-is-less-stupid/485235/97 "2009-02-12T22:12:18Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Oooh, burn! I seem to have stepped on a fanboy toe. My apologies. Look, the Federation was usually not at war, and most missions were peaceful. Equating life on board the Enterprise with active service in the Iraq war seems off to me. “Fanboy toes”? Heh. Sure, a little hyperbole, but not by much. Consider: [http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Federation](http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Federation) > [@Memory Alpha](#): > > Although the Federation’s intentions were peaceful, around it were other, more belligerent powers such as the Klingon and Romulan Empires. As it expanded through the admittance of more and more worlds, it came into conflict with these powers. In the 23rd century, its main adversary was the Klingon Empire, with war briefly erupting between the two in 2267, before being halted by the Organians. (TOS: “Errand of Mercy”) However, tensions eased considerably towards the end of the century, with the Khitomer Conference of 2293 being a substantial turning point. (Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country) This conference saw the signing of to the Khitomer Accords, which effectively ended hostile relations. > > At the start of the 24th century, the Federation began an unprecedented period of peaceful exploration of the galaxy, free of major conflicts, as its main adversary of the previous century, the Klingon Empire, was now at peace with it. However, relations with the Romulans remained hostile, albeit at a low, ‘cold war’ level. There was also a series of local conflicts in the late 2340s, as the Federation came into contact with other militant races such as the Cardassians, the Talarians, the Tholians and the Tzenkethi. > > Starfleet forces engaging the Borg.Then, however, the period of peaceful exploration came to an abrupt end. In 2365, the Federation encountered its single worst threat in the cybernetic pseudo-race known as the Borg. One of the most powerful and destructive forces in the entire galaxy, the Borg twice invaded the Federation. They were unlike anything the Federation had ever encountered, and were only foiled by chance and Human resourcefulness. The Federation was thus schooled in the fact that, in the vast, unexplored reaches of the galaxy beyond what they knew, there were threats that they could not even imagine. (TNG: “Q Who”, “The Best of Both Worlds”, “The Best of Both Worlds, Part II”; Star Trek: First Contact) > > The Breen hit the heart of Starfleet.Then, in 2370, contact was made with the Dominion, the predominant ruling power over much of the Gamma Quadrant. After numerous skirmishes, misfortunes suffered by the Cardassian Union allowed for their eventual incorporation into the Dominion, and the subsequent Dominion invasion of the Alpha Quadrant. The Dominion/Cardassian forces were also joined by the reclusive but immensely powerful race known as the Breen. The ensuing war was the greatest crisis to be faced by the Federation, with the Federation forming an alliance with the Klingons and Romulans to defeat the Dominion. Although the Alliance eventually emerged victorious, many of the Federation’s important member worlds, such as Betazed, Coridan, and Benzar, had been temporarily occupied before the Dominion’s offensive could be turned back. Thousands of Federation Starfleet vessels and millions of lives were lost, in what turned out be, as of the late 24th century, the bloodiest conflict in Federation history. (DS9: “By Inferno’s Light”, et al.) The most devastating and demoralizing offensive occurred in 2375, when the Breen hit the Federation at its heart, with a surprise attack on Starfleet Headquarters on Earth. (DS9: “The Changing Face of Evil”) > > However, the war and its aftermath allowed the Federation to establish new relations with many of its former adversaries, the Romulans in particular. In 2379, cooperation took place between the crew of a Federation Starfleet vessel, the USS Enterprise-E, and Romulan forces to defeat the Romulan Praetor Shinzon, whose actions would have destroyed both Earth and the Romulan Star Empire. It was hoped that this would mark the beginning of and end to hostility between the Federation and the Romulan Star Empire, marking the beginnings of détente with a traditional enemy of the Federation. (Star Trek Nemesis) I will grant you that during the period in question (the start of the TNG period), there may have been hope and optimism that the future would be free from war, but before (or after), it was most definately not. And that doesn’t count all those spatial time warps, supergodlike beings (“Q”), exotic viruses & space bacteria, and technical malfunctions that seems to threaten the crew every week. > [@choie](#): > > Then they aren’t allowed on board. The privilege of having the family on board demands participation in the ship. Why is this so hard to fathom? What else are these spouses doing all day, lounging around? Are you really saying that there were adults on board that don’t play a role in the ship’s activities and never have? I don’t know, actually. I have never seen a full ship’s roster. Let’s put it your way: Anyone who accepts assignment to a ship destined for exploration deployment (as a dependent of a member of Star Fleet) must agree to “work” in some capacity on board. Really? Do they get training, too, and SF expense? I suppose the spouse of crewman Johanson would be _happy_ to do whatever menial task the Captain or XO feels needs done (like feeding the Captains fish), eager to expand his/her horizons, meet personal challenges, etc etc etc. > [@](#): > > That’s too bad. I’m sorry you missed out by being one of the tiny percentage of folks who were, at the time, aware of what happened. Or what may have happened. Or what you thought may have happened. For the rest of us it was pretty damn cool. Sucks to be me, I guess. Would you believe that I am not jealous that I missed out on your excitement? Would you believe that I am surprised it is/was not common knowledge (aka “open secret”)? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2009, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tng-so-it-makes-sense-or-at-least-is-less-stupid/485235/98 "2009-02-12T23:47:09Z")
> [@Jolly\_Roger](#): > > For various reasons thats one of the stupidest things in Trekdom. I believe it was Roddenberry’s idea, and well, its a bad one. Heck, in the second movie David Marcus has no problem describing Starfleet as “the military” without so much as a raised eyebrow among the other scientists in the room. So I guess the key to properly redoing TNG is to keep Gene Roddenberry as far from it as possible. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tng-so-it-makes-sense-or-at-least-is-less-stupid/485235/99 "2009-02-13T00:12:25Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Heck, in the second movie David Marcus has no problem describing Starfleet as “the military” without so much as a raised eyebrow among the other scientists in the room. > > So I guess the key to properly redoing TNG is to keep Gene Roddenberry as far from it as possible. Star Fleet has a very rigid “rank” structure, with titles pulled straight out of the wet Navy’s of Earth. Compare that to Dr. Marcus’ civilian scientist group, which seemed a lot “looser”. (Remember the arguing going on when her team received that message from Chekov?) The SF officers appear to be subject to a “Courts Martial” (as opposed to a regular court that civilians may answer to, I presume). Still, I guess SF covers a broad range of missions: defense (military), search and rescue and safety (Coast Guard), diplomatic (US State Department), exploration (NASA & Dept. of Energy). ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2009, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tng-so-it-makes-sense-or-at-least-is-less-stupid/485235/100 "2009-02-13T01:09:31Z")
Haven’t read all this thread, but here are my suggestions: 1. Deanna Troi needs to be off the bridge and reassigned to the closet in the boiler room. While they’re at it, they need to take her red stapler as well. 😉 2. I would’ve liked to have seen some actual repair work (or actual physical labor, for that matter). Standing at a computer hacking at the keyboard while the Romulans (or whoever) are blowing big chunks of the ship infrastructure into space _doesn’t fix anything_. Somebody is going to have to weld something together - the computer ain’t gonna do it. 3. Worf needs to kick some ass. Poor Worf. ☹ ETA: 4. A ban on the word “anomaly”. Thanks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tng-so-it-makes-sense-or-at-least-is-less-stupid/485235.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tng-so-it-makes-sense-or-at-least-is-less-stupid/485235.md?page=6)