# Redo Star Trek TOS with more guts **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 24, 2011, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tos-with-more-guts/579593 "2011-04-24T22:26:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tos-with-more-guts/579593/181 "2011-04-29T10:42:26Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > By mistake! :smack: LSD, Superglue, Uranus. Some of the best discoveries are by mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tos-with-more-guts/579593/182 "2011-04-29T14:31:16Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > - 'course, since we’ve got an entirely new continuity to work with, have we considered adding [Julie Newmar](http://www.myconfinedspace.com/2011/03/07/julie/) to the cast ? She could just crawl through a Jefferies tube every week and it would make for memorable TV. Not yet – but I like the way you think. With Uhura as a major character (I like making her xenolinguistics talents an essential part of all first-contact landing parties), a second good female character would be a very good thing. Ms Newmar could play some recurring supporting character… maybe the assistant chief engineer? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tos-with-more-guts/579593/183 "2011-04-29T14:38:12Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > LSD, Superglue, Uranus. Some of the best discoveries are by mistake. And best not associated with each other. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tos-with-more-guts/579593/184 "2011-04-29T14:40:10Z")
> [@Scuba\_Ben](#): > > Not yet – but I like the way you think. With Uhura as a major character (I like making her xenolinguistics talents an essential part of all first-contact landing parties), a second good female character would be a very good thing. Ms Newmar could play some recurring supporting character… maybe the assistant chief engineer? I dunno. No matter how gutsy we try to make it, this is still the 23rd Century **as imagined in 1966.** Just having women in the crew at all is pushing the envelope. But shengineers?! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tos-with-more-guts/579593/185 "2011-04-30T16:04:22Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I dunno. No matter how gutsy we try to make it, this is still the 23rd Century **as imagined in 1966.** Just having women in the crew at all is pushing the envelope. But shengineers?! :eek: If she crawls out of a Jeffries tube with a disheveled uniform an a dirty smudge on her cheek\*, rating would soar. \*having saved the ship ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tos-with-more-guts/579593/186 "2011-04-30T16:25:30Z")
I think any version of Trek is improved by more mudd … Harcourt Fenton Mudd!!! What a fun guy! Always slipping around in dangerous territory doing things he shouldn’t, breaking laws of every planet he comes to and trying to make a little change on the side while he’s at it. He and the Orion slave girls would make an interesting combination … ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2011, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tos-with-more-guts/579593/187 "2011-04-30T23:35:56Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > We could get plenty of in-between ideas from [_Barlowe’s Guide to Extraterrestrials_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barlowe%27s_Guide_to_Extraterrestrials) – not suggesting copyright infringement, just that this SF TV show’s writers should look at the work of the field’s print writers, and the kinds of lifeforms they dreamed up when they did **not** expect to have to bring their creations off the page and into a rubber suit or something You know, if the show runs long enough, you could actually get _Barlowe_ to work on the show. Barlowe’s Guide was published in 79, when he was 21. And the man’s done [his own work](http://www.rudyrucker.com/blog/images/barlowe.jpg). That could actually be a plot/arc point, when you think about it…by the time Barlowe’d be old enough to come onboard, the show would be nearing the end of it’s run. A lot of the ideas would have been done, stories been told, the cast is getting older, America and the audience would be different from the ones that started watching the show. Work that in—the _Enterprise_ is on an extended long-range exploration mission, really really scraping back the borders of the galactic map deep in the Beta quadrant, beyond the reaches of even the Klingons or Romulans. The strange new worlds they’re encountering really are increasingly _alien_ (damned if I know why…local conditions affecting the formation of life? Precursor aliens? Sheer dumb odds? Some kind of “little bang” theory I think I read in _Blue Mars_ when I was a kid? Who knows, maybe it won’t even come up), and the characters can’t help but feeling the sense of (no pun intended) alienation, of being past their prime, out of their element. A worry that the galaxy [read: world] has passed them by. Both as a spacefaring civilization…and as individual officers in a starfleet full of up-and-coming young faces. Yep, a generational fear of growing old, and of a world that’s changed almost beyond recognition. Appropriate, I think, for a cutting-edge show that would have started in the mid-60s and is set to last almost until the Reagan years. And the execution likely _still_ involves delivering a two-handed punch to an alien that looks like a Larynx. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tos-with-more-guts/579593/188 "2011-05-02T13:48:00Z")
I’d watch BrainGlutton’s hard ST show, but with 3 provisos: 1. Flint still shows up. Maybe no robot wife, but he’s still out there and he can be a human enemy, perhaps the founder of Section 31. We could even have an intelligence officer on board the Enterprise to provide a little political tension. This guy can be killed eventually in some cliff-hanger down the line. 2. More Gorn. In “Arena” Kirk will be beamed down with 5 redshirts, maybe also Spock. One Gorn officer is beamed down. This is considered to be _a fair fight_ in a physical sense. The Gorn should be big, nasty bastards, perhaps later recruited by Section 31 as their muscle. Not evil, though. I’m tired of anti-reptile prejudice. 3. Sneak a TARDIS in somewhere. Just a glimpse on some alien world, just for a millisecond? Pleeease? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tos-with-more-guts/579593/189 "2011-05-02T14:10:47Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > 1. Sneak a TARDIS in somewhere. Just a glimpse on some alien world, just for a millisecond? Pleeease? They’re running down a hall in an alien facility. There is a blue police box sitting there. They’re in a hurry, so they merely do a double take as they run past it. Later, they see a glimpse of the back of a man wearing a long scarf running another direction, followed by a woman. When they pass the hall again, the box is not there. A confused look and they continue on. No mention of it is made anywhere by anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tos-with-more-guts/579593/190 "2011-05-02T15:03:05Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > They’re running down a hall in an alien facility. There is a blue police box sitting there. They’re in a hurry, so they merely do a double take as they run past it. > > Later, they see a glimpse of the back of a man wearing a long scarf running another direction, followed by a woman. > > When they pass the hall again, the box is not there. A confused look and they continue on. > > No mention of it is made anywhere by anyone. Yes, exactly. Well, maybe not that Doctor, but I’ll take what I can get. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tos-with-more-guts/579593/191 "2011-05-02T15:55:41Z")
I’d keep the Q, but recast them as hyperdimensional beings. Yes, they can do things that cannot ordinarily be done, but they’re not omnipotent. Basically take some multidemensional theory and run with it. I’d also keep the Organians as a super-powerful civilisation but recast their civilisation as Melniboneans. Super-powerful when roused but indolent. They really want to be left alone. The odd Organian adventurer may have super-powerful technology, but unlike the Q is flesh and blood. And there should definitely be a shout to Doctor Who. Just a young girl called Susan appearing and calling out for her grandfather… ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tos-with-more-guts/579593/192 "2011-05-02T16:08:30Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I’d keep the Q, but recast them as hyperdimensional beings. Yes, they can do things that cannot ordinarily be done, but they’re not omnipotent. Basically take some multidemensional theory and run with it. Well, I don’t think they were using the word _omnipotent_ in the sense _able to do anything that can be expressed in words_ when it came to the Q. The simple fact that there was more than one of them made it impossible for more than one of them to be omnipotent. After all, if the John de Lancie Q is omnipotent, then he can defeat the Suzie Plakson Q in battle without any effort, which makes it impossible for her to be omnipotent as well. _Omnipotent_ in this sense is just shorthand for _awesomely powerful_. Likewise they weren’t truly immortal, since it was possible to remove their powers and kill them. Also, I think the basic concept of them was that they _were_ hyperdimensional beings. Whatt Picard & his officers (and the audience) saw was merely what they could comprehend, not their true selves. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tos-with-more-guts/579593/193 "2011-05-02T16:52:59Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Also, I think the basic concept of them was that they _were_ hyperdimensional beings. Whatt Picard & his officers (and the audience) saw was merely what they could comprehend, not their true selves. That is my argument for the firearms used in _The Q and the Gray._ ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2011, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tos-with-more-guts/579593/194 "2011-05-02T16:57:49Z")
[QUOTE=Skald the Rhymer] Also, I think the basic concept of them was that they _were_ hyperdimensional beings. Whatt Picard & his officers (and the audience) saw was merely what they could comprehend, not their true selves. [/QUOTE] 😃 One of the few good lines to come out of the _The Day the Earth Stood Still_ remake: **Helen Benson:** What were you before you were human? **Klaatu:** Different. **Helen Benson:** Different how? **Klaatu:** It would only frighten you. ---
**Author:** ![Find\_Friends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@Find\_Friends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Find_Friends)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tos-with-more-guts/579593/195 "2011-05-04T16:38:54Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Have you seen _Friday’s Child_ ? > > “Let’s see if he’s got the belly for it.” Let’s not forget _A Taste of Armageddon._ “… but \*\*I’ll not \*\*drop my shields!” Seems that he was also willing to devastate an entire planet if Kirk wasn’t released. Now, that may be a bit of bad writing. It implies that our crew has leaders just as willing to commit genocide against the uncooperative as the Empire in _Mirror, Mirror_; they just have better taste in material for an ultimatum. But in any event it shows that Scotty was never, for one moment, protrayed as being too timid for the job. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2011, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tos-with-more-guts/579593/196 "2011-05-06T08:58:10Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Well, I don’t think they were using the word _omnipotent_ in the sense _able to do anything that can be expressed in words_ when it came to the Q. The simple fact that there was more than one of them made it impossible for more than one of them to be omnipotent. After all, if the John de Lancie Q is omnipotent, then he can defeat the Suzie Plakson Q in battle without any effort, which makes it impossible for her to be omnipotent as well. _Omnipotent_ in this sense is just shorthand for _awesomely powerful_. Likewise they weren’t truly immortal, since it was possible to remove their powers and kill them. > > Also, I think the basic concept of them was that they _were_ hyperdimensional beings. Whatt Picard & his officers (and the audience) saw was merely what they could comprehend, not their true selves. I always took it as, since Q can manipulate matter and even create people, that he just creates a material person who happens to look like John de Lancie. The scarecrow bit in the Q-suicide episode of Voyager was just a representation. The guns in the next Q episode, however, just don’t make sense–why design them where real humans can use them? I can buy that Q and Suzie Q were translating the continuum into things we could comprehend. I can’t buy the Q design weapons that any lower lifeform can use. If they are going to do that, why not just manipulate matter to make a bunch of non-Q soldiers to do all the fighting? And, if they could do taht, then why would bringing in a few real humans accomplish anything? No, I believe the design changed to De Lancie actually being the true form of Q, and that the species was more like Mr. Mxyzptlk, only powerful in our dimension. In the continuum, they are just normal humans. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tos-with-more-guts/579593.md?page=9)