# Redo Star Trek TOS with more guts **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 24, 2011, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tos-with-more-guts/579593 "2011-04-24T22:26:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tos-with-more-guts/579593/161 "2011-04-28T19:22:25Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Spock is in no way wistful about regaining his emotional control in "Amok Time."Losing it was humiliating, and the fact that he is vulnerable to the humiliation makes it worse. > > I think the most apt example is “This Side of Paradise” (assuming that’s the one with Jill Ireland, whom I mention mostly so I have an excuse to link to a picture of her in a [bikini](http://images.easyart.com/i/prints/rw/lg/2/3/Celebrity-Image-Jill-Ireland-237058.jpg). HIs control was ripped from him by an external force (the spores) and once he was freed of their influence, he wasn’t remotely tempted to go back. His attitude was like that of a man committed to his wife who is presented with a hot chick who wants to sleep with him just once and whom he trusts never to rat him out. Yes, that would be pleasant, but it’s not the sort of guy he wants to be. Definitely not wistful after Amok Time, though he did have an emotional reaction which brought the house down upon finding Kirk alive. TSOP was indeed the one with Jill Ireland (and I will carefully study your evidence when I get back from work). I am not sure he wasn’t tempted, but his strong sense of duty to his culture certainly kept him from doing it. But my point was that Spock, unlike Data, knew very well what was on the emotional side of the divide. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tos-with-more-guts/579593/162 "2011-04-28T19:26:38Z")
At the beginning, I will make some effort to relate the general frame of Hard SF Trek to the real universe, so far as that is possible. Before writing a single script, we will look at some star maps of the Milky Way and decide just what is the extent of the Federation. This will be decided based on application of the Drake Equation to guesstimate how many civilized species might be located within a given volume of space within the Milky Way galaxy. Figure out, very roughly, how many species/races we want to be in the Federation, and make it big enough to hold them. Then calculate how far it would take the Enterprise-HSF to get from Earth to the Political Frontier in x number of days, x being whatever length of time we judge, in general plotting terms, to be the longest acceptable for getting that done. Whatever speed, however prosperous, allows that will be specified as the nearly-top-speed of the ship and something below it will be the ship’s normal cruising speed. Similar calculations will be made as to the actual distances two spaceships would need to be from each other to exchange fire effectively, and how they could maneuver relative to each other (notably different from the maneuvering of airplanes, etc.). Relevant tables will be drawn up and drilled into the heads of the writers and posted in the storystorming room. They will be made to clearly understand that **these are the physical limits of what the Enterprise or any other spaceship can do,** allowing exceptions only for clearly expressed instances of Applied Phlebotinum or Handwavium as the story requires, which we’ll try to avoid, but we’ll discuss that as it comes up, case-by-case. E.g.: Within Federation space, there is a short list of planets that are Federation member species’ homeworlds, all orbiting known and named (in 1966) stars, and an only slightly longer list of various species’ colonies on Goldilocks Planets also orbiting named stars, and the distances between any two of them are on this table and you will write the travel-times accordingly. It will also be mentioned, casually and periodically, how “empty” the Federation is, and that most stars in Federation space, as in all space, are orbited by nothing capable of bearing life in any form. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tos-with-more-guts/579593/163 "2011-04-28T19:31:50Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > In TOS, we never see anyone’s quarter’s but Kirk, Spock’s, Uhura’s, and maybe McCoy’s. Uhura has to give up her quarters temporarily for Elaan of Troyius, and when the latter complains Kirk says that there are none better on the ship. And what we saw wasn’t luxiurious: about a hundred square feet with a partition in the middle. > > I’d not be surprised if only the captain, first officer, and a few of the department heads had separate quarters. Most of the crew were double-bunking methinks. > > The above is, of course, contradicted by the fact that Rand appears to have her own quarters. But then she was doing the captain. 🙂 Plus they needed to show her in a nightie. I don’t know. I seem to remember reading something about how the excess space in the Enterprise is a reflection of the advanced engineering of the day. There is wasted space all over the shii - just make the corridors a bit narrower, and you’d have all sorts of room. Perhaps there is some sort of engineering reason why the diameter of the saucer section must be roughly the same as the length of the warp nacelles. That would give them all sorts of room. Now the real submarine (the Romulan ship in “Balance of Terror” was quite cramped. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tos-with-more-guts/579593/164 "2011-04-28T19:33:40Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Hmm. You’re refuting my own nitpicking of my own argument. 😉 > > I was thinking of that scene in Charlie X; I thought Rand had a solo room, which seemed odd given her rank. I suppose I could look at it, as I have all of TOS on this computer, but I’m too lazy. I think I’m wrong, sorry. The characters name was Tina Lawton, but she didn’t room with Rand. She was the girl that Rand tried to distract Charlie with. She got changed into an iguana, too. Mrs. Skin Face was an unnamed crewwoman who was down a side passage, chatting it up with other crew members when a grumpy Charlie stomps past. ---
**Author:** ![Daerlyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Daerlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daerlyn)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tos-with-more-guts/579593/165 "2011-04-28T19:42:57Z")
How have we gone four pages without mentioning Diane Duane’s work in the ST expanded universe? It’s a pity she wasn’t born about a decade earlier or she’d be the right age to write for TOS. In any case, I’m bringing a copy of _Spock’s World_ back to the 60s with me and making that shit canon. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tos-with-more-guts/579593/166 "2011-04-28T19:45:06Z")
> [@Daerlyn](#): > > How have we gone four pages without mentioning Diane Duane’s work in the ST expanded universe? It’s a pity she wasn’t born about a decade earlier or she’d be the right age to write for TOS. In any case, I’m bringing a copy of _Spock’s World_ back to the 60s with me and making that shit canon. I’d not make ALL of it canon – I don’t like the idea of Sarek ever being reduced to hysterical laughter – but she’s spot on in many ways. I like her stuff on the universal translator, for instance. And I think she implies that the Romulan Commander from “The Enterprise Incident” had her life ruined by Kirk & Spock’s actions (and her own glands). ---
**Author:** ![Daerlyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Daerlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daerlyn)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tos-with-more-guts/579593/167 "2011-04-28T20:14:25Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I’d not make ALL of it canon – I don’t like the idea of Sarek ever being reduced to hysterical laughter – but she’s spot on in many ways. I like her stuff on the universal translator, for instance. And I think she implies that the Romulan Commander from “The Enterprise Incident” had her life ruined by Kirk & Spock’s actions (and her own glands). I did really like the idea of Sarek being able to find things funny without abandoning logic, but I will grant your dissent may be valid. The bit about the Romulan Commander came up in _The Romulan Way_, which seemed to start out as an attempt at a companion to _Spock’s World_, but quickly became something completely different. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tos-with-more-guts/579593/168 "2011-04-28T20:19:06Z")
> [@Daerlyn](#): > > I did really like the idea of Sarek being able to find things funny without abandoning logic, but I will grant your dissent may be valid. The bit about the Romulan Commander came up in _The Romulan Way_, which seemed to start out as an attempt at a companion to _Spock’s World_, but quickly became something completely different. It was always clear that Spock had a sense of humor. And, if you think about it, humor is more intellectual than emotional. As Horace Walpole said right before I kneecapped him, stole his wallet, burned down his house, and shot his dog, “Life is a comedy to the man who thinks, a tragedy to the man who steals.” Anyway, it doesn’t bother me that Vulcans find things amusing and make subtle jokes; I just don’t think they should ever laugh hysterically. Duane was right to opine that Vulcans seek to master their passions, not eliminate their emotions, and the idea that they want to be like Data is a translation problem. Blaming Amanda Greyson was simply gravy. Also the bit about the first female Romulan Commander starts in _My Enemy, My Ally_, which precedes both books you named. I think. Again I’m too lazy to wiki. Anyway there’s an exchange between the Big Three and that book’s Romulan Commander, who is aunt to the other, in which one of the Three comments that they would expect her to want vengeance on them. Her reply is something like, “Yeah, I do, but I’m busy. Gotta save the galaxy and all that shit. I’ll slit all your throats one at a time as soon as we’re done with that.” ---
**Author:** ![Saltire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saltire/32/553_2.png) [@Saltire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saltire)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tos-with-more-guts/579593/169 "2011-04-28T22:35:36Z")
Someone earlier on suggested more gender equality, and we’d all like more Uhura in the general course of episodes. So here’s my suggestion: Make Uhura the First Officer. Generally, since Kirk is the adventurous type and the nominal diplomatic representative of the Federation, he’d go ashore on most major missions. He’d generally take the Science Officer, Spock, who would probably be third in command. Uhura would command the ship whenever Kirk was away, unless there was a really good reason for them both to go somewhere. In TOS as it stands, I think Uhura was fifth, after Kirk, Spock, Scotty, and Sulu. But they never wrote a situation where she got into the chair. I always wanted to see them do that in one of the films. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tos-with-more-guts/579593/170 "2011-04-28T22:43:32Z")
> [@Saltire](#): > > Someone earlier on suggested more gender equality, and we’d all like more Uhura in the general course of episodes. So here’s my suggestion: > > Make Uhura the First Officer. > > Generally, since Kirk is the adventurous type and the nominal diplomatic representative of the Federation, he’d go ashore on most major missions. He’d generally take the Science Officer, Spock, who would probably be third in command. Uhura would command the ship whenever Kirk was away, unless there was a really good reason for them both to go somewhere. > > In TOS as it stands, I think Uhura was fifth, after Kirk, Spock, Scotty, and Sulu. But they never wrote a situation where she got into the chair. I always wanted to see them do that in one of the films. This is a good idea. I’d watch this. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tos-with-more-guts/579593/171 "2011-04-28T22:54:15Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > This is a good idea. I’d watch this. It was the _original_ idea. Not with Uhura, of course, but with Number One. And since 60s!Nichelle Nichols was hotter than 60s!Majel Barret, we’ll have to go with that one. I don’t think anyone will object to her crossing those legs in the center seat. 🙂 My only problem here is that there’s a reason Spock goes less and less on away missions as the series proceeds. With his combination of enhanced strength & telepathy, he’s sometimes a storybreaker. Plus I simply like him as first officer. I wouldn’t object to there being a specific, noted regulation that the captain and first officer are ordinarily not to be on the same landing party, and giving the role of Kirk’s usual away team companion to Uhura. In fact, if she’d been treated like Hoshi Sato was later, and if the universal translator is less magic as a lot of people suggest, one could argue that her job reqires her to be a great number of away missions. You could even have some conflict with an overprotective Kirk not liking the idea of her being on some missions and her telling her that he cannot do his job without her, and she cannot do her job long distance. And Kirk absolutely cannot stay on the bridge. He is Kirk; we must find ways to rip his shirt and for him to boink hot alien chicks. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tos-with-more-guts/579593/172 "2011-04-28T23:34:50Z")
> [@Saltire](#): > > Make Uhura the First Officer. She can’t sit in the chair. Not with that skirt. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2011, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tos-with-more-guts/579593/173 "2011-04-28T23:41:50Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > He was a farm boy in Kansas. They had to make their own fun, okay? Don’t be judgmental. Iowa ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tos-with-more-guts/579593/174 "2011-04-29T00:25:12Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > She can’t sit in the chair. > Not with that skirt. Oh yeah, she can sit in that chair better than anybody. \* - 'course, since we’ve got an entirely new continuity to work with, have we considered adding [Julie Newmar](http://www.myconfinedspace.com/2011/03/07/julie/) to the cast ? She could just crawl through a Jefferies tube every week and it would make for memorable TV. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tos-with-more-guts/579593/175 "2011-04-29T00:28:10Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > Iowa Looks like [Smallville](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallville_%28DC_Comics%29) has been moving around. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tos-with-more-guts/579593/176 "2011-04-29T00:29:30Z")
Yeoman Colt on Risa. The Planet of Kens and Barbies (from TNG) in a dark crime thriller (Redjac!). ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tos-with-more-guts/579593/177 "2011-04-29T00:31:14Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > Looks like [Smallville](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallville_%28DC_Comics%29) has been moving around. I thought he meant James T Kirk. oops :)😕:eek::mad::rolleyes:🆒:p;):D:o:dubious::(:smack: (smilies all wanted to see what was happening) ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tos-with-more-guts/579593/178 "2011-04-29T01:11:54Z")
You are really weird, Noclue. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tos-with-more-guts/579593/179 "2011-04-29T01:17:50Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > I thought he meant James T Kirk. oops > > :)😕:eek::mad::rolleyes:🆒:p;):D:o:dubious::(:smack: > (smilies all wanted to see what was happening) No, I was surprised to see that Supes’ hometown has moved around. According to the Wiki page it was in Iowa in the radio show, and on the east coast later, only coalescing in Kansas more recently. I had always thought it was Kansas-canon from the get go. Thanks, ignorance fought. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2011, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tos-with-more-guts/579593/180 "2011-04-29T02:40:37Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > Thanks, ignorance fought. By mistake! :smack: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tos-with-more-guts/579593.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redo-star-trek-tos-with-more-guts/579593.md?page=10)