# Redpill, you are a loathsome Neanderthal **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 4, 2010, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redpill-you-are-a-loathsome-neanderthal/559517 "2010-11-04T22:26:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redpill-you-are-a-loathsome-neanderthal/559517/21 "2010-11-05T03:06:50Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Second-hand crazy is still crazy. And how is it “crazy”? Do you believe that no rapist anywhere is disinterested in gender politics? Every single rapist is Out To Get women; not a single one just wants sex and doesn’t care if they hurt someone to get it? I’m not the one making ridiculous claims here. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redpill-you-are-a-loathsome-neanderthal/559517/22 "2010-11-05T03:09:56Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > And all this time I thought you were serious. Only when I’m sober. ---
**Author:** ![Peeta\_Mellark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bc8723/32.png) [@Peeta\_Mellark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peeta_Mellark)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redpill-you-are-a-loathsome-neanderthal/559517/23 "2010-11-05T03:32:41Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And how is it “crazy”? Do you believe that no rapist anywhere is disinterested in gender politics? Every single rapist is Out To Get women; not a single one just wants sex and doesn’t care if they hurt someone to get it? > > I’m not the one making ridiculous claims here. I know what **Der Trihs** is talking about and I agree with him. The insistence on seeing the motive for any rape to be domination horribly simplifies things. Men like sex. Some men are willing to ignore consent in order to gain sex. They may be dominating and taking power, but that is simply a means to the end. In fact, with some men, I’d say consent is entirely incidental. Their focus is sex. If the other person agrees that makes it simpler, but it’s just a big hunt for an orgasm. The actual feelings or experience of the victim doesn’t matter. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redpill-you-are-a-loathsome-neanderthal/559517/24 "2010-11-05T03:35:19Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And how is it “crazy”? Do you believe that no rapist anywhere is disinterested in gender politics? Every single rapist is Out To Get women; not a single one just wants sex and doesn’t care if they hurt someone to get it? The existence of “a single one” using rape just to satisfy his need for sex doesn’t invalidate the thesis that most individuals who rape are doing it to satisfy other, non-sexual, impulses. I’m not getting “gender politics” either. That suggests (to me) that the rapists would be open with (one another, at least) about having an agenda of some sort. You don’t need that to have a LOT of psychologically screwed-up men having inadequacy issues that they feel can only be addressed by dominating a woman sexually against her will. No time to elaborate. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redpill-you-are-a-loathsome-neanderthal/559517/25 "2010-11-05T03:49:49Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > The existence of “a single one” using rape just to satisfy his need for sex doesn’t invalidate the thesis that most individuals who rape are doing it to satisfy other, non-sexual, impulses. It does however invalidate the claim that “rape is about power”. Not “often about power”, not “sometimes also about power”; the claim is that it is only about power. And the claim is that men never rape just for sex, ever. > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I’m not getting “gender politics” either. That’s what the claim is; that all rapists have an agenda. That none of them are simply ruthless and indulging their sex drive; that they are subordinating their sex drive to the goal of oppressing women. That they will rape women they find unattractive because they aren’t motivated by sexual desire at all. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redpill-you-are-a-loathsome-neanderthal/559517/26 "2010-11-05T03:51:37Z")
What **Der Trihs** refuses to acknowledge is that the claim “rape is about power” arises out of a particular context, and isn’t intended to be fucking Newtonian in its application. When a 19 year old puts a lot of pressure on his 17 year old prom date to have a few drinks, and employs a little more physical coercion to eventually finagle sex out of the encounter, that’s an assault that derives its significance from the very human and rather normal sexual desires of the offender in question. Since that happens sometimes and is still included under the umbrella of rape, obviously, it disproves the statement “rape is about power” to the extent that anybody thinks that statement applies to every coerced sexual encounter. Of course, nobody fucking thinks that – rather, the idea that rape is about power is a response to the trend towards trivializing the violence and severity of rape by making it _exclusively_ about sex and chalking it up to either the conduct or the victim or the simple sexual imperative of a man, for which he bears at least diminished or maybe even no responsibility at all – a point which has been suggested to **Der Trihs** repeatedly, but which he has no interest in crediting. Something something agenda something. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redpill-you-are-a-loathsome-neanderthal/559517/27 "2010-11-05T03:53:43Z")
Isn’t the majority of rape in America date rape or “acquaintance” rape? I’m sure that in most of these cases, the rapist would _prefer_ that the woman go along with him willingly, but if not, will force themselves on her to get what they want. That kind of rape to me is not about “power” any more than a bank robbery is about “power.” I’m sure the robbers would rather just be able to have millions of dollars magically granted to them if they could. But they can’t, so they take what they want by force. The force is a means to an end, not the end. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redpill-you-are-a-loathsome-neanderthal/559517/28 "2010-11-05T04:04:05Z")
Usually in the case of date rape, it seems the rapist doesn’t give a shit one way or the other. If it’s consentual, fine. If not, well, no big deal. Otherwise there wouldn’t be a big deal about the “date rape drug”. Most rapes are usually committed by someone the victim knows. Which makes **Redpill** ’s bullshit spewing even dumber. ---
**Author:** ![Redpill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/58956e/32.png) [@Redpill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Redpill)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redpill-you-are-a-loathsome-neanderthal/559517/29 "2010-11-05T04:09:46Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > … the idea that rape is about power is a response to the trend towards trivializing the violence and severity of rape by making it _exclusively_ about sex and chalking it up to either the conduct or the victim or the simple sexual imperative of a man, for which he bears at least diminished or maybe even no responsibility at all The problem with this line of thinking is a) Its false, rape is not motivated by power but sex instead. b) It removes all responsibility from the victim. (eg drunk with strangers, taking drugs, leading on etc). It comes from the dangerous human tendency to assign total blame on one party or the other and looking at the world as a simplistic black and white. ---
**Author:** ![Fried\_Dough\_Ho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Fried\_Dough\_Ho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fried_Dough_Ho)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redpill-you-are-a-loathsome-neanderthal/559517/30 "2010-11-05T04:10:57Z")
1 in 6 women and 1 in 33 men will be assaulted in their lifetime. College-aged women are four times more likely to be assaulted. 73% of those assaulted know their assailants. Every two minutes, someone is sexually assaulted. 60% of the assaults are not reported to the police. Only 6% of the rapists will ever spend one day in jail. [Cite](http://www.rainn.org/) ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redpill-you-are-a-loathsome-neanderthal/559517/31 "2010-11-05T04:11:09Z")
> [@Redpill](#): > > The problem with this line of thinking is > > a) Its false, rape is not motivated by power but sex instead. > > b) It removes all responsibility from the victim. (eg drunk with strangers, taking drugs, leading on etc). > > It comes from the dangerous human tendency to assign total blame on one party or the other and **looking at the world as a simplistic black and white.** Which you just did. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redpill-you-are-a-loathsome-neanderthal/559517/32 "2010-11-05T04:13:08Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > When a 19 year old puts a lot of pressure on his 17 year old prom date to have a few drinks, and employs a little more physical coercion to eventually finagle sex out of the encounter, that’s an assault that derives its significance from the very human and rather normal sexual desires of the offender in question. Since that happens sometimes and is still included under the umbrella of rape, obviously, it disproves the statement “rape is about power” to the extent that anybody thinks that statement applies to every coerced sexual encounter. > > Of course, nobody fucking thinks that – rather, the idea that rape is about power is a response to the trend towards trivializing the violence and severity of rape by making it _exclusively_ about sex and chalking it up to either the conduct or the victim or the simple sexual imperative of a man, for which he bears at least diminished or maybe even no responsibility at all – a point which has been suggested to **Der Trihs** repeatedly, but which he has no interest in crediting. On the contrary, I’m told over and over that rape is only about power, that sexual attraction has nothing to do with it, _ever_. “Rape is about power” is an idea that originated from the wing of the feminist movement that thinks that all sex involving males is about power. The people the “sex positive” feminists had to set out to oppose. It had little if anything to do with an attempt to avoid the “trivializing” of rape; not something that is a problem in modern America anyway, a nation that positively foams at the mouth about it these days. This isn’t the 1950s, you know. We don’t live ina country where rape is trivialized; we live in one where it’s regarded as pretty close to the Ultimate Evil, and one where even the mere baseless accusation of it can ruin a man. ---
**Author:** ![Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleeps_With_Butterflies)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redpill-you-are-a-loathsome-neanderthal/559517/33 "2010-11-05T04:14:50Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > He spouts so much froth someone should use him as a milkshake machine. Very nice. Me likie. ---
**Author:** ![Redpill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/58956e/32.png) [@Redpill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Redpill)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redpill-you-are-a-loathsome-neanderthal/559517/34 "2010-11-05T04:21:13Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Which you just did. How so? ---
**Author:** ![Palooka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/palooka/32/2902_2.png) [@Palooka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palooka)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redpill-you-are-a-loathsome-neanderthal/559517/35 "2010-11-05T04:30:04Z")
Rape is complex. Rape occurs for a variety of reasons, in no way limited to one of opportunity, lust, or ability. It can’t be reduced to black and white terms like “It’s about power.” or “It’s about sex.” The guy who stalks a woman for three months is probably different from the guy who rapes the elderly woman he cares for after a night of heavy drinking. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redpill-you-are-a-loathsome-neanderthal/559517/36 "2010-11-05T06:13:58Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And how is it “crazy”? I’d explain it to you, but… you’re crazy. Can’t rationalize with crazy. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redpill-you-are-a-loathsome-neanderthal/559517/37 "2010-11-05T06:48:51Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I’d explain it to you, but… you’re crazy. Can’t rationalize with crazy. Of course, what that really means is that I’m not crazy, or even close to it. Calling me “crazy” over and over without any actual argument as to _why_ I’m crazy - not even just wrong or ignorant, but _crazy_ - is just an attempt to shout me down without actually trying to argue against me. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redpill-you-are-a-loathsome-neanderthal/559517/38 "2010-11-05T07:19:36Z")
Of course I’m not trying to argue with you - you’re crazy. I thought I’d explained that in my last post. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redpill-you-are-a-loathsome-neanderthal/559517/39 "2010-11-05T07:49:52Z")
> [@Redpill](#): > > The problem with this line of thinking is > b) It removes all responsibility from the victim. (eg drunk with strangers, taking drugs, leading on etc). I hear you, every time I get drunk around strangers or toke up I’m turning on my “please rape me” sign, but sadly it doesn’t always work. I mean I’m asking for it, but potential rapists don’t see it sometimes, the eunuchs. If they were real men they’d whip it out and rape me. /sarcasm Lord, it really is too easy for trolls to be taken seriously on this board. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redpill-you-are-a-loathsome-neanderthal/559517/40 "2010-11-05T08:44:20Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Of course I’m not trying to argue with you - you’re crazy. I thought I’d explained that in my last post. Repeating that claim over and over doesn’t make it true. And I doubt that even you actually believe it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redpill-you-are-a-loathsome-neanderthal/559517.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redpill-you-are-a-loathsome-neanderthal/559517.md?page=3)