# Redpill, you are a loathsome Neanderthal **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 4, 2010, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redpill-you-are-a-loathsome-neanderthal/559517 "2010-11-04T22:26:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@Hero\_From\_Sector\_7G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hero_From_Sector_7G)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2010, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redpill-you-are-a-loathsome-neanderthal/559517/161 "2010-11-07T18:18:08Z")
> [@rachelellogram](#): > > The best way to prevent rapes is to prevent rapists from raping women, you dumb victim-blaming fucks (I’m looking at you, MeanOldLady). By what mechanism? As a society how do we get together and stop a crime before it happens? Is it possible to accept that people have good intentions and everyone in this thread wishes rape would go away? Frankly, the name calling does little to reinforce anyone’s argument. I don’t think Mean Old Lady or Redpill wish women to get raped, nor would refuse sympathy and compassion to a victim. There is nothing demonic or evil about _trying_ to figure out a way to stop rape. > [@](#): > > In the past, I didn’t understand why a woman in this day/age could possibly blame female victims of rape for not properly protecting themselves. Now I see that it’s a smokescreen to make themselves feel invincible according to the just-world hypothesis. There are a lot of types of rape, not all male on female. It might serve you better if you step back from that limited scope and look at the whole picture. Is telling a child not to let anyone touch their private parts victim blaming or compassionate parenting? > [@](#): > > The best way of looking at it, in my opinion, is that there are two primary kinds of rapists. The stranger-raper, and the date-raper. Once a stranger-raper decides to rape someone… he’s going to rape someone. If he can’t find a drunk stumbler readily available, he’ll break into a house and rape the first woman he sees; he’ll hide in the gutter and ambush the first woman who comes by walking her dog. He’ll visit random ladies in the nursing home with the intent to rape them. ETC I disagree with your premise that someone sets their mind to rape. Rather, I think it is a person seizing an opportunity. Similar to how if I leave my wallet sitting on a counter I don’t think the person who steals it set out to steal a wallet when they woke up. Certainly each person has a proclivity towards that behavior, but neither was a rapist nor a wallet thief before the act happened. > [@](#): > > Conclusion: There is \*\*no \*\*reliable way to protect yourself from rape. This is why we must focus on stopping rapists, and anything else is 100% victim-blaming bullshit. Until you outline your mechanism for identifying rapists before the act happens I completely disagree with you. Surely there’s a better way to prevent rape, and part of prevention includes eliminating some of the opportunities for rape? For example. limit the amount of time prisoners are alone with each other. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2010, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redpill-you-are-a-loathsome-neanderthal/559517/162 "2010-11-07T18:37:32Z")
Let’s focus on physical assault in general. Being physically assaulted is crime that can happen in both relatively safer and less safe situations. A person putting themselves in less safe circumstances can increase the probability of that person being assaulted. This does not mean that assault cannot happen even in relatively safe circumstances, it simply means that more dangerous circumstances can increase that probability substantially. Just because you cannot precisely parse out the dividing line between “safe” and “less safe” does not mean we cannot make rational generalized determinations about a person’s responsibility to themselves for not putting themselves at higher risk of being assaulted through engaging in higher risk behaviors. The notion that you cannot ever tell a victim of assault who behaved in a high risk fashion that this behavior quite probably meaningfully contributed to their being assaulted, and to not behave that way in the future, defies common sense. Re “victim blaming” victims are blamed all the time, and sometimes with good reason. People who give money to Nigerian scammers are blamed for foolish behavior. People who drink till they blackout in bars, and are robbed and assaulted are blamed. People who leave their keys in their cars and have their cars stolen are blamed. Even if the victims of the majority of rapes are utterly blameless to draw a special circle around _all_ rape as a special protected class of assault, and say “under no circumstances can you assign any degree of responsibility to this rape victim for _anything_ they did predicate to being raped that might have placed them at higher risk of assault” is nonsensical. The response that you can’t tell precisely where “reasonable” and “risky” behavior diverge might well be true if we’re applying an analytical micrometer to all the interval steps between these two points, but this is not Zeno’s Paradox, this is real life, and some generalised behaviors and actions will put a person at considerably higher risk of being assaulted. That’s it’s an anathema to recognize this is not just irrational, it’s dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2010, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redpill-you-are-a-loathsome-neanderthal/559517/163 "2010-11-07T20:10:22Z")
I would venture a guess that nobody’s surprised by [your](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=536517) [amateur](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10607882&postcount=6)[interest](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=509552) [in](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11180365&postcount=92) [the](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4769783&postcount=78) [subject](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4767647&postcount=24), or your [perspective](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4768342&postcount=40), **astro** , and probably only slightly more than that give a damn at this point. This post could be a lot longer, but I’m thirsty. You sick fuck. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2010, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redpill-you-are-a-loathsome-neanderthal/559517/164 "2010-11-07T20:29:30Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > I would venture a guess that nobody’s surprised by [your](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=536517) [amateur](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10607882&postcount=6)[interest](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=509552) [in](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11180365&postcount=92) [the](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4769783&postcount=78) [subject](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4767647&postcount=24), or your [perspective](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4768342&postcount=40), **astro** , and probably only slightly more than that give a damn at this point. > > This post could be a lot longer, but I’m thirsty. You sick fuck. I’ve got over 24,000 SDMB posts across 11 years on more or less every topic under the sun, it’d be quite a job to identity my “amateur interest”, but good effort and all that! ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2010, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redpill-you-are-a-loathsome-neanderthal/559517/165 "2010-11-07T21:05:48Z")
Not [much of a job](http://www.google.com/search?q=boards.straightdope.com+astro+victim&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#sclient=psy&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=E9C&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&q=+site:boards.straightdope.com+%22astro%22+victim&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=2289185d5cea093) at all, really. You did all the real work. Good point about how you shoot your mouth off about everything you don’t know about, though. I didn’t mean to pigeonhole you. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2010, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redpill-you-are-a-loathsome-neanderthal/559517/166 "2010-11-07T21:12:53Z")
Dude, all you did was Google his name and the word “victim.” I can do the same thing for [you](http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&safe=off&site=&source=hp&q=site:boards.straightdope.com+%22jimmy+chitwood%22+victim&aq=&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=2289185d5cea093), or myself, or anyone else here. ---
**Author:** ![Peeta\_Mellark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bc8723/32.png) [@Peeta\_Mellark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peeta_Mellark)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2010, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redpill-you-are-a-loathsome-neanderthal/559517/167 "2010-11-07T21:41:01Z")
I got 314 hits when I searched my name. I don’t even have that many posts. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2010, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redpill-you-are-a-loathsome-neanderthal/559517/168 "2010-11-07T21:47:28Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > Not [much of a job](http://www.google.com/search?q=boards.straightdope.com+astro+victim&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#sclient=psy&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=E9C&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&q=+site:boards.straightdope.com+%22astro%22+victim&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=2289185d5cea093) at all, really. You did all the real work. > > Good point about how you shoot your mouth off about everything you don’t know about, though. I didn’t mean to pigeonhole you. Well then… apparently I gave you more “e” for effort credit than you deserved. My bad. Are you going to keep going with the ad hominem or at some point will you direct your attention to the specifics of my post that you find most irrational. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2010, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redpill-you-are-a-loathsome-neanderthal/559517/169 "2010-11-07T23:48:38Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Dude, all you did was Google his name and the word “victim.” I can do the same thing for [you](http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&safe=off&site=&source=hp&q=site:boards.straightdope.com+%22jimmy+chitwood%22+victim&aq=&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=2289185d5cea093), or myself, or anyone else here. Er. Yes. That is pretty obviously what I did. I wasn’t exactly trying to keep it a fucking secret by posting that link to Google with the search terms, now was I. Before I did that, I read the results of the search. And then I linked to a handful of threads to point out **astro** ’s historical fascination with victimhood and denying the seriousness of a variety of related issues. It isn’t like that search was supposed to support any conclusion other than the amount of effort I had invested. Dude likes to talk about rapes and roofies and shit. When he does, it’s always the same angle. I’m not sure what my googleability has to do with that. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2010, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redpill-you-are-a-loathsome-neanderthal/559517/170 "2010-11-07T23:53:38Z")
Ah. I thought you thought that search was supposed to prove astro’s pet hobby of blaming rape victims. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2010, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redpill-you-are-a-loathsome-neanderthal/559517/171 "2010-11-07T23:59:30Z")
No, his [post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=477024)(s) is my cite for his fascination: > [@](#): > > Could a fully grown chimpanzee or gorilla rape a human female? ---
**Author:** ![Ostrya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/35a633/32.png) [@Ostrya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ostrya)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redpill-you-are-a-loathsome-neanderthal/559517/172 "2010-11-08T01:08:30Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > No, his [post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=477024)(s) is my cite for his fascination: Your fascination is digging dirt on others. It’s your style. What would motivate someone to be googling all around on a nice Sunday afternoon in attempt to discredit the sensible content of someones posts in the SDMB Barbeque Pit forum? Life suck much, Mr. Catwood? ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redpill-you-are-a-loathsome-neanderthal/559517/173 "2010-11-08T01:14:55Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > No, his [post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=477024)(s) is my cite for his fascination: Your desire to smear this guy because he has a different point-of-view than you on how to prevent rape has gone from sad to fucked up in the space of two pages. The most brutish view presented here shows that everyone is on the same page on this subject, thanks in a large part to the efforts of advocates in the 70s. Quit being an ass. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redpill-you-are-a-loathsome-neanderthal/559517/174 "2010-11-08T10:59:35Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Don’t go heckling my fan club. Membership is at an all time low! Well maybe if the membership fees weren’t so high… ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redpill-you-are-a-loathsome-neanderthal/559517/175 "2010-11-08T17:41:39Z")
Cheapskate. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redpill-you-are-a-loathsome-neanderthal/559517/176 "2010-11-08T19:41:10Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > Your desire to smear this guy because he has a different point-of-view than you on how to prevent rape has gone from sad to fucked up in the space of two pages. Actually, I was just having some fun because the idiots who used to be arguing with me seem to have done a scarper rather than responding. Seen any of’em? ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redpill-you-are-a-loathsome-neanderthal/559517/177 "2010-11-08T19:52:40Z")
Ha ha, it’s true. Every time someone is tired of having a conversation, it’s because they’ve been run off by your madd skillz. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redpill-you-are-a-loathsome-neanderthal/559517/178 "2010-11-08T22:06:00Z")
I’m sickened by people like astro and MOL who are perpetuating the rape culture in the US. Shame on you. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redpill-you-are-a-loathsome-neanderthal/559517/179 "2010-11-08T22:14:17Z")
We’ve done this one before a few times. I think I’m inclined to answer it from a different angle than what I probably responded wtih in previous iterations. Meaning — of anything — is meaning _to someone_. When discussing whether rape is about sex or (only) about power, what we’re discussing is meaning. What rape MEANS. And therefore what it means _to_ someone. Let us stipulate that it is possible for rape to mean something sexual _to the perpetrator_, that the perpetrator experiences rape as a sexual thing. Even if true, that does not, in some fashion, make it OK to suggest that rape victims could prevent or reduce their risk of rape by doing things to be less sexually interesting. Such a suggestion is NOT OK. If you do not understand why it is not OK, let us resort to analogy. Pick the ones you like. They’ll _all fall somewhat short because all analogies do_ but hopefully you’ll get the gist of what I’m driving at here, OK? Analogy A: Lynching victims in the deep south could have prevented or reduced their risk of being lynched by doing things to prevent being perceived as uppity. Analogy B: Cartoonists filmmakers and illustrators who have been physically attacked or killed by Islamic extremists for how they portray the Prophet Muhammed or Islam could have prevented or reduced their risk of being assaulted by censoring their art to avoid anything that might upset Islamic extremists. Analogy C: Gay males who have been attacked and killed by homophobic queer-bashers could have prevented or reduced their risk of being beaten up by those guys by staying in the closet and making sure they don’t exhibit any behaviors that might be considered insufficiently masculine. Keep in mind that rape victims have generally said that _to them_ rape was not about sex. That it was about violence. However much some rapist may say the victim was “being sexy”, the victim has tended to say she was merely “being female”. Male sexual behavior is not caused by females. It is caused by males. They’re the ones whose behavior it is. It doesn’t apepar that rape happens only, or even mainly, to the females who dress a certain way (mostly, instead, just to the most vulnerable females regardless of apparel and age) _but even if it did_, all indications are that if the… let’s say, sexiest-dressed 10% of women were to start dressing less provocatively, it would not make rape decline, not by 10% and not by some lesser figure, but rather instead rapists would simply target whoever they considered to be “dressed sexy”; SOME females would always be more so than some other females. And as I said, there’s no real evidence that this has anything to do with it. I could make a _somewhat_ similar point about “walking in unsafe places at unsafe hours by themselves or with only other women for company”. That’s more specifically a vulnerability factor and ameliorating vulnerability would (eventually at some point) have a bigger effect on the overall rate, but for quite some ways along the curve rapists would just switch their focus to slightly more cautious women if the women engaging in the 10% riskiest behavior suddenly got more cautious. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redpill-you-are-a-loathsome-neanderthal/559517/180 "2010-11-08T22:18:12Z")
> [@rachelellogram](#): > > I’m sickened by people like astro and MOL who are perpetuating the rape culture in the US. Shame on you. And with that, I am convinced this idiot bitch is a troll. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redpill-you-are-a-loathsome-neanderthal/559517.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redpill-you-are-a-loathsome-neanderthal/559517.md?page=10)