# Redundantly named places **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 12, 2022, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redundantly-named-places/957623 "2022-01-12T01:41:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![RickG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rickg/32/5174_2.png) [@RickG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickG)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2022, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redundantly-named-places/957623/61 "2022-01-13T16:24:39Z")
There’s [Street Road (PA 132)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsylvania_Route_132) in Bucks County, PA. Apparently it was named that when “street” and “road” were not precisely synonymous. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2022, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redundantly-named-places/957623/62 "2022-01-13T19:14:37Z")
> [@RickG](#): > > There’s [Street Road (PA 132)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsylvania_Route_132) in Bucks County, PA. That one was mentioned in the OP. One of two with that name in Pennsylvania. The other is [Street Road (PA 926)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsylvania_Route_926). ---
**Author:** ![UDS1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e47774/32.png) [@UDS1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS1)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2022, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redundantly-named-places/957623/63 "2022-01-14T00:36:04Z")
> [@Treppenwitz](#): > > But Avon and Ouse are English words. Not, I’ll grant you, particularly modern English words, but English words none the less. _Avon_ is not an English word, except as a proper noun, the name of various rivers. _Ouse_ is an English word with several documented senses, but none of them would be redundant when bracketed with “river”. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2022, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redundantly-named-places/957623/64 "2022-01-14T02:05:50Z")
I will add, _pace_ Darryl Francis, that _pen_ does not mean hill in Welsh. It means “head.” Because it means “head,” it often metaphorically means “top” or “summit” or the “end” of something, and by extension can mean “headland” or “promontory,” but it really never means “hill” or “mountain” on its own, though there are certainly plenty of hills with “pen” in the name (e.g. Pen Dinas, named for the _dinas_ on the _pen_ of the hill). ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Downtown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Mr\_Downtown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Downtown)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2022, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redundantly-named-places/957623/65 "2022-01-14T05:13:49Z")
Chicago’s Promontory Point (part of Burnham Park) seems to qualify. In Kane County, in the Chicago exurbs west of Batavia, there’s Main Street Road. I suspect quite a few of these are hidden around the country, where a town’s main street was extended into the countryside, or connected with a previously unnamed road. In the Atlanta suburbs, namely the Marietta area, the popular name for US 41 for many years was Four-Lane Highway, which no longer seems terribly unique. Probably was never officially designated that, however. Arcadia, Fla., has Cul-de-Sac Road. Even better, West Point, Miss., has Cul de Sac Street—which connects to streets at both ends. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2022, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redundantly-named-places/957623/66 "2022-01-14T06:17:14Z")
> [@Mr\_Downtown](#): > > Chicago’s Promontory Point (part of Burnham Park) seems to qualify. Certainly does. > [@](#): > > In Kane County, in the Chicago exurbs west of Batavia, there’s Main Street Road. I suspect quite a few of these are hidden around the country, where a town’s main street was extended into the countryside, or connected with a previously unnamed road. It turns out there’s lots of redundantly named streets and roads. After reviewing the Wiki list of tautological places, I thought there were enough to create a separate section for them. Then got ambitious and, through much googling and streetviewing, found a whole bunch more: an Avenue du Boulevard; more Avenue Road’s; several Boulevard Avenue’s; more Boulevard Road’s; some Boulevard Street’s; and lots more. You can see the results here: [Streets and Roads](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tautological_place_names#Streets_and_Roads) There were so many, in fact, that I skipped all the ones with another word or number in front of the redundant words, such as the Main Street Rd you found. The list would have been at least 5 times longer if I hadn’t. I wasn’t that ambitious. > [@](#): > > Arcadia, Fla., has Cul-de-Sac Road. Even better, West Point, Miss., has Cul de Sac Street—which connects to streets at both ends. The first one is not quite redundant; the second is horribly misnamed. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2022, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redundantly-named-places/957623/67 "2022-01-14T13:11:29Z")
Not really relevant, but here’s Landland, some teenager’s invented microstate: [https://micronations.wiki/wiki/Landland](https://micronations.wiki/wiki/Landland) ---
**Author:** ![RickG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rickg/32/5174_2.png) [@RickG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickG)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2022, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redundantly-named-places/957623/68 "2022-01-14T16:22:34Z")
Oh, whoops. I _promise_ I read the thread. Memory of a goldfish, I have. ---
**Author:** ![Treppenwitz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treppenwitz/32/3445_2.png) [@Treppenwitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treppenwitz)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2022, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redundantly-named-places/957623/69 "2022-01-14T17:23:17Z")
All I said was that you pronounce it Tropennah. I come from Cumbria, not Cambria, so I’m not qualified to comment on whether it’s correct use of the Welsh or not. BTW I see that Wikipedia says “Pen(n)” is from the (old) Welsh - but I’m not sure why that would be as Wales is a fair distance away. (Wiki also says that the “How” bit comes from old Norse; I get that because the Vikings certainly raided and settled the area, but I wasn’t aware that the Welsh did.) j ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2022, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redundantly-named-places/957623/70 "2022-01-14T17:44:10Z")
I replied to your post because you were the latest to mention it, not to counter what you said. “Cumbria” and “Cambria” are etymologically the same word: Old Welsh was probably still spoken in the region when the Norse began settling: it was certainly spoken to the north (Strathclyde) until the 11th century at least. Penrith (“head” + “ford”) is another “pen(n)-” name in Cumbria: outside of Cornwall and the border towns in Hereford, Cumbria was probably the last Brythonic-speaking place in England. ---
**Author:** ![Treppenwitz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treppenwitz/32/3445_2.png) [@Treppenwitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treppenwitz)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2022, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redundantly-named-places/957623/71 "2022-01-14T18:02:31Z")
Now you’ve got me googling Common Brittonic, Welsh and Cumbric. Fascinating, but I’ll end this hijack right here. Thanks j ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2022, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redundantly-named-places/957623/72 "2022-01-14T20:03:39Z")
Kayaderosseras Creek in Saratoga County, NY. Kayaderosseras\* translates into "Valley of the Crooked Stream,’ so it’s “Valley of the Crooked Stream Creek.” (In the US, a creek is usually a name of a stream; in the UK, it’s an estuary.) ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2022, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redundantly-named-places/957623/73 "2022-01-14T21:05:05Z")
> [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > I know the OP said English, but I’ve always liked Baden-Baden, which means Bath-Bath. I was under the impression that that was like New York, New York. Baden in the state of Baden, to distinguish from Baden, Argau, which is in the Swiss canton of Argau. Yeah, I know there are commas, but still. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2022, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redundantly-named-places/957623/74 "2022-01-14T21:36:51Z")
Suburban Rochester has the magnificently named Boulevard Parkway. It is a side street two blocks long. ---
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2022, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redundantly-named-places/957623/75 "2022-01-14T21:37:06Z")
The U.K. offers several “River Rivers” because Avon (welsh) means river. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2022, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redundantly-named-places/957623/76 "2022-01-14T23:04:31Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > I was under the impression that that was like New York, New York. Baden in the state of Baden, to distinguish from Baden, Argau, which is in the Swiss canton of Argau. Yeah, I know there are commas, but still. I don’t think that’s the same as “New York, New York”. First, the land Baden was named after the city of Baden, not the other way around, and Baden-Baden in that form is the official name of the city, like New York is the official name of the city. The analogous expression to New York, New York would be Baden-Baden, Baden-Württemberg. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2022, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redundantly-named-places/957623/77 "2022-01-14T23:24:44Z")
Not to be confused with Baden-Baden-Baden, where P.D.Q. Bach spent his final years. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2022, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redundantly-named-places/957623/78 "2022-01-15T03:26:24Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Suburban Rochester has the magnificently named Boulevard Parkway. ‘Boulevard’ seems to be the most common word making up redundant names for streets. Besides that one, there’s Boulevard Avenue, Boulevard Drive, Boulevard Road, Boulevard Street; in French, there’s Avenue du Boulevard; in Spanish, there’s Calle Boulevard and Avenida Boulevard. Most of those in multiple towns. I haven’t checked for it combined with any other synonyms for street yet, but I expect more. Perhaps even a Boulevard Boulevard or a Boulevard du Boulevard. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2022, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redundantly-named-places/957623/79 "2022-01-15T03:53:15Z")
What’s so weird about Boulevard Parkway is that both names are normally reserved for major, tree-lined, multi-laned, conspicuous show-off thoroughfares. Why anyone would stick it on a nondescript suburban side street is beyond me. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2022, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redundantly-named-places/957623/80 "2022-01-15T04:10:19Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > What’s so weird about Boulevard Parkway is that both names are normally reserved for major, tree-lined, multi-laned, conspicuous show-off thoroughfares. That doesn’t surprise me at all. Not after all the googling/streetviewing I did for various other Boulevard-streets. Some of them were just dirt tracks, not even properly graveled. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redundantly-named-places/957623.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/redundantly-named-places/957623.md?page=5)