# Reexamining Star Wars 50 years later **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [January 19, 2026, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reexamining-star-wars-50-years-later/1026810 "2026-01-19T00:48:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2026, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reexamining-star-wars-50-years-later/1026810/281 "2026-01-29T00:45:19Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > We’ll never know of it was a sound strategy or not, what mattered was that Vader didn’t like being undermined. I think that that’s the crux of it; Ozzel chose a tactic that went against Vader’s orders. Ozzel had already tried to argue Vader out of sending the fleet to Hoth, on the basis of a “fragment” return from a probe droid, which had undoubtedly put him on thin ice with the Dark Lord. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2026, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reexamining-star-wars-50-years-later/1026810/282 "2026-01-29T00:46:47Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Ozzel had already tried to argue Vader out of sending the fleet to Hoth, on the basis of a “fragment” return from a probe droid, which had undoubtedly put him on thin ice with the Dark Lord. To be fair, if it had been a false lead, Ozzel would’ve paid the price, not Vader. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2026, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reexamining-star-wars-50-years-later/1026810/283 "2026-01-29T00:47:38Z")
Going back through quotes on IMDB, there’s this exchange between Vader and General Veers, which indicates that Ozzel’s tactic was, in fact, meant to provide them with “the element of surprise”: - [Darth Vader](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000469/?ref_=ttch_qu): What is it, General? - [General Veers](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0002103/?ref_=ttch_qu): My Lord, the fleet has moved out of lightspeed. Com-Scan has detected an energy shield protecting a small area on Hoth VI. The shield is strong enough to deflect any bombardment. - [Darth Vader](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000469/?ref_=ttch_qu): [_getting angry_] The Rebels are alerted to our presence. Admiral Ozzel came out of lightspeed too close to the system. - [General Veers](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0002103/?ref_=ttch_qu): … He felt surprise was wiser… - [Darth Vader](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000469/?ref_=ttch_qu): He is as clumsy as he is stupid. General, prepare your troops for a surface attack. - [General Veers](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0002103/?ref_=ttch_qu): Yes, my Lord. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2026, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reexamining-star-wars-50-years-later/1026810/284 "2026-01-29T00:56:39Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > I think that that’s the crux of it; Ozzel chose a tactic that went against Vader’s orders. I suspect he didn’t so much “go against orders” as “fail to read Vader’s mind.” I don’t think Vader’s order were any more specific than, “Take us to Hoth and destroy the rebels.” Ozzel and his command staff spend hours in strategy sessions that Vader does not attend, because he’s Darth fucking Vader, and he has important brooding to do. Then Ozzel executes the plan, it’s not the one Vader had in his head but didn’t tell anyone about, and Ozzel gets choked out. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2026, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reexamining-star-wars-50-years-later/1026810/285 "2026-01-29T00:58:25Z")
Yep. Arbitrary exercise of arbitrary power. Totally Rulevof Cool for 10yo boys and psychopathic CEOs worldwide. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2026, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reexamining-star-wars-50-years-later/1026810/286 "2026-01-29T01:03:35Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I suspect he didn’t so much “go against orders” as “fail to read Vader’s mind.” Good point. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2026, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reexamining-star-wars-50-years-later/1026810/287 "2026-01-29T01:08:11Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Conversely, doing the opposite – come out of hyperspace some distance away – doesn’t seem to me any more strategically sound. It’s a fleet consisting of a massive Super Star Destroyer, and several Star Destroyers; they don’t have cloaking devices, and they are damned hard to hide. Coming out of hyperspace further away – and then having to approach the planet at sublight speed – seemingly would have given the Rebels _more_ time to pick up the Imperial ships on their sensors, before they got into firing range. Alternately, if the fleet had come out of hyperspace further away, they could have just bombarded the base into oblivion with their turbolasers without having to get any closer. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2026, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reexamining-star-wars-50-years-later/1026810/288 "2026-01-29T01:43:48Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > they could have just bombarded the base into oblivion with their turbolasers without having to get any closer. Though, that would get back to the line about the base’s shields being strong enough to withstand any bombardment. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2026, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reexamining-star-wars-50-years-later/1026810/289 "2026-01-29T02:05:09Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > that would get back to the line about the base’s shields being strong enough to withstand any bombardment. The shields which wouldn’t be up, because the fleet isn’t close enough to be detected. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2026, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reexamining-star-wars-50-years-later/1026810/290 "2026-01-29T02:07:03Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The shields which wouldn’t be up, because the fleet isn’t close enough to be detected. Too far away to be detected, but close enough to blast a base with turbolasers? I suppose that could be a thing if the plot demands it… ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2026, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reexamining-star-wars-50-years-later/1026810/291 "2026-01-29T02:21:58Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Too far away to be detected, but close enough to blast a base with turbolasers? It’s space. A turbolaser’s range is theoretically constrained only by the speed of light, even by crazy Star Wars magic space physics where spaceships go whoosh and make banking turns and stop moving if they run out of fuel and “lightspeed” means something completely different than the speed at which light travels. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2026, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reexamining-star-wars-50-years-later/1026810/292 "2026-01-29T02:27:31Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > It’s space. A turbolaser’s range is theoretically constrained only by the speed of light But if the Star Destroyer is so far away from Hoth that the Rebels’ sensors can’t pick it up, how are the gunners on the Star Destroyer targeting the base? This all gets into fan-wanking, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2026, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reexamining-star-wars-50-years-later/1026810/293 "2026-01-29T02:35:58Z")
You’re right, but since we’re having fun here, I suppose the simplest answer is that the Imperial Starfleet probably has access to better long-range sensors than a rebel base that’s trying to keep a low profile and avoid being found, so they’d be able to see the rebels from farther away than the rebels could see them. Alternately, a scout ship could move ahead of the fleet and relay targeting coordinates back to them, since a single TIE fighter would probably be harder to spot than an entire fleet. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2026, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reexamining-star-wars-50-years-later/1026810/294 "2026-01-29T15:34:32Z")
How big do you all think the shield is? Just over the base? Large but not too big? Extends into space? Over the entire planet? Because if it isn’t the entire planet, the Empire could just blast the entire rest of the planet to bedrock and wait. Have fun under your dome, rebel scum. I know, I know…not that kind of movie. But it is part of the reason I don’t consider _Empire_ to be the best movie. Too many nonsensical actions, too much plot confusion\*, too many giant space slugs\*\*, not enough wonder, not enough _fun_. \*What was Luke’s “failure in the cave?” \*\*One is too many 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2026, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reexamining-star-wars-50-years-later/1026810/295 "2026-01-29T15:38:07Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > How big do you all think the shield is? Just over the base, obviously, otherwise the landing wouldn’t have worked. > [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Because if it isn’t the entire planet, the Empire could just blast the entire rest of the planet to bedrock and wait. Have fun under your dome, rebel scum. I… guess? If they just spent a couple months firing turbo lasers at it? They probably wanted a quicker solution, though. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2026, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reexamining-star-wars-50-years-later/1026810/296 "2026-01-29T15:46:32Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > They probably wanted a quicker solution, though. Vader probably does, because that’s the way he is. But a siege gets the same result, at less cost. Neutralize the rebels. Trapped or dead, the result is the same. And if you create an ecological holocaust on Hoth, then the rebels will be dead soon anyway. Of course, the rebels going to all that trouble to make a base, and then it wasn’t even finished before they were forced to leave: not a smart decision, either. ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2026, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reexamining-star-wars-50-years-later/1026810/297 "2026-01-29T16:04:33Z")
I mean, they don’t have the Death Star anymore. Just Star Destroyers. And I have it on very good authority that the entire Starfleet couldn’t destroy a whole planet. It would take a thousand ships with more firepower than… My source was interrupted before he could explain further. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2026, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reexamining-star-wars-50-years-later/1026810/298 "2026-01-29T16:07:57Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Vader probably does, because that’s the way he is. But a siege gets the same result, at less cost. What does the Empire care about “cost?” > [@](#): > > Of course, the rebels going to all that trouble to make a base, and then it wasn’t even finished before they were forced to leave: not a smart decision, either. I don’t think the Rebels “decided” to still be building the base when they got caught. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2026, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reexamining-star-wars-50-years-later/1026810/299 "2026-01-29T16:13:45Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > By emerging close, the fleet caused a detectably large and close spacequake that let the rebels aim all their sensors and defenses directly at their attackers. Yes, this. Let’s remember that these guys are the Rebel _underdogs_ of the story. They’ve been chased all over the galaxy by Vader, and keep having to retreat. Hell, that’s their whole plan for Hoth, “Vader’s here! GTFO!!!” Hell, it was just a day or two earlier they were still trying to get their speeders to work in the cold. They don’t have world-spanning detection systems like the US had during the Cold War. They have guys on tauntauns, who ride around looking at stuff. The chances of them seeing Vader’s fleet with optical or radar-type sensors is unlikely, unless they know where to aim their limited capacity. The hyperspace exit too close to their base is what gives them that chance. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2026, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reexamining-star-wars-50-years-later/1026810/300 "2026-01-29T16:16:42Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I don’t think the Rebels “decided” to still be building the base when they got caugh My point being that _any_ base is vulnerable. Have they not learned the Yavin Lesson? So the Death Star is gone. But, at the time of the film, number 2 is nearing completion. Or maybe the Empire scientists found a way to make a star go nova. Call it the Star Death. 🙂 > [@MrAtoz](#): > > And I have it on very good authority that the entire Starfleet couldn’t destroy a whole planet. It would take a thousand ships with more firepower than… Blow it to bits, true. Sterilize the surface? Make the rebels have to hide under their shield, unable to come out? We can almost do that now. I’m sure a couple Star Destroyers can make a planet a living hell. You think Hoth is cold now, wait until trillions of tons of ice and top soil are blastered into the stratosphere. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reexamining-star-wars-50-years-later/1026810.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reexamining-star-wars-50-years-later/1026810.md?page=16)