# Reexamining Star Wars 50 years later **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [January 19, 2026, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reexamining-star-wars-50-years-later/1026810 "2026-01-19T00:48:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2026, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reexamining-star-wars-50-years-later/1026810/301 "2026-01-29T16:17:10Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > They don’t have world-spanning detection systems like the US had during the Cold War. They have guys on tauntauns, who ride around looking at stuff. > > The chances of them seeing Vader’s fleet with optical or radar-type sensors is unlikely, unless they know where to aim their limited capacity. The hyperspace exit too close to their base is what gives them that chance. I’m Kenobi, and I endorse this fanwank. ---
**Author:** ![icon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c6cbf5/32.png) [@icon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/icon)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2026, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reexamining-star-wars-50-years-later/1026810/302 "2026-01-29T16:27:01Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > The chances of them seeing Vader’s fleet with optical or radar-type sensors is unlikely, unless they know where to aim their limited capacity. The hyperspace exit too close to their base is what gives them that chance. At the beginning of the movie they are talking about setting up sensors, specifically for life forms, but it makes sense that they were also in the process of setting up sensors to monitor things further out. It is possible that they had not finished that process and would not have detected the star destroyers if they were further away. We also don’t know if there are moons or other celestial bodies around that could have allowed the imperial fleet to remain undetected. `//i\\` ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2026, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reexamining-star-wars-50-years-later/1026810/303 "2026-01-29T16:30:30Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Too many nonsensical actions, too much plot confusion\*, too many giant space slugs\*\*, not enough wonder, not enough _fun_. > > \*What was Luke’s “failure in the cave?” Wait, what?! Luke in the Dark Side cave is one of the better scenes in the movie. It’s very much “show, not tell”. Here’s the dialogue: > LUKE: There’s something not right here. > LUKE: I feel cold, death. > YODA: That place… is strong with the dark side of the Force. A domain of evil it is. In you must go. > LUKE: What’s in there? > YODA: Only what you take with you. > YODA: Your weapons… you will not need them. We then see Luke take his weapons, react to Vader by drawing his light saber first, parry an attack, and then launch his own lethal attack. Thus revealing his own fate of becoming like Vader. All by cinematically showing us instead of talking at us. This scene is excellent movie making. Here’s a clip. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/HNpTvwfG_Ak/maxresdefault.jpg "The Cave Vision | The Empire Strikes Back") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNpTvwfG_Ak) ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2026, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reexamining-star-wars-50-years-later/1026810/304 "2026-01-29T16:33:37Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > All by cinematically showing us instead of talking at us. This scene is excellent movie making. As an adult, I understand (and appreciate) this scene now. As a 15-year-old, seeing the film for the first time, it confused me. “What do you mean, ‘failure’? He won!” ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2026, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reexamining-star-wars-50-years-later/1026810/305 "2026-01-29T16:33:44Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > All by cinematically showing us instead of talking at us. This scene is excellent movie making. Yes, but the problem is, what of that would be considered a “failure”? Luke gets hints of his true heritage, he learns the danger he’s under of succumbing to the Dark Side, and learns that just swinging away with his lightsaber maybe isn’t the best plan for confronting Vader. If anything was a failure, it was when he ignored Yoda telling him not to got to Cloud City, knowing that he wasn’t fully trained yet. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2026, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reexamining-star-wars-50-years-later/1026810/306 "2026-01-29T16:38:39Z")
> [@icon](#): > > We also don’t know if there are moons or other celestial bodies around that could have allowed the imperial fleet to remain undetected. We don’t even know how their sensors work. “You can’t track in hyperspace”, until the plot says you can. You can spot the death star and track it on the other side of a gas giant, but you can’t track it in empty space a couple minutes away until you see it with your eyeballs. The movies only inspire threads like this when they try _too_ hard to be scientific. Especially as the franchise is really more space fantasy that science fiction, they should just go with how ST\* handles the transporter. “It works. Move on”. Internal consistency is more important that scientific rigor. If you can’t do something today, you can’t do it tomorrow. And if your hyperdrive is out, you’re not going anywhere! \*Star Trek fails this a lot, too. Just watched Cause and Effect, and Ro announces a “disturbance 20K kilometers away”. At any speed they would be traveling they’d be past it before she finished her sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2026, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reexamining-star-wars-50-years-later/1026810/307 "2026-01-29T16:41:30Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Yes, but the problem is, what of that would be considered a “failure”? Yoda, the one who called it a failure, is trying to teach Luke to become a Jedi. Yoda considers becoming like Vader a failure. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2026, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reexamining-star-wars-50-years-later/1026810/308 "2026-01-29T18:03:40Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > My point being that _any_ base is vulnerable. Have they not learned the Yavin Lesson? So the Death Star is gone. But, at the time of the film, number 2 is nearing completion. Or maybe the Empire scientists found a way to make a star go nova. Call it the Star Death. Sorry, genuinely no idea what you’re trying to say here. What lesson were they supposed to learn from Yavin? > [@](#): > > You can spot the death star and track it on the other side of a gas giant, but you can’t track it in empty space a couple minutes away until you see it with your eyeballs. What scene is this in reference to? > [@kenobi\_65](#): > > As an adult, I understand (and appreciate) this scene now. As a 15-year-old, seeing the film for the first time, it confused me. “What do you mean, ‘failure’? He won!” I was five or six when Empire came out, and I remember not understanding that scene at all, because I didn’t recognize Mark Hamil’s face after the helmet’s faceplate exploded. I recall thinking it was one of the bridge officers from earlier in the film, and couldn’t figure out why he was hanging out on Dagobah disguised as Darth Vader. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2026, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reexamining-star-wars-50-years-later/1026810/309 "2026-01-29T18:42:41Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Sorry, genuinely no idea what you’re trying to say here. What lesson were they supposed to learn from Yavin? Not building a base on a planet that the Empire can attack. Planets are vulnerable, especially when you don’t have ships of your own like Star Destroyers. One thing going differently in Star Wars and the rebels would have been destroyed in one fell swoop. > [@Miller](#): > > What scene is this in reference to? They track the death star as it approached the 4th moon of Yavin from the far side. (Which puts a lie to vader’s bitch at Ozzel in Empire about “coming out too close”. Because if the DS had come out of hyperspace on the moon-side of Yavin, the rebels would be destroyed in about 30 seconds.) But Han can’t ID a “small moon” at Alderaan in empty space (they’re past the rubble by this point)? > [@Miller](#): > > because I didn’t recognize Mark Hamil’s face after the helmet’s faceplate exploded I did, too. he only “failure” I see was Luke not listening to Yoda. Defeating the ersatz Vader didn’t seem like a failure. > [@kenobi\_65](#): > > “What do you mean, ‘failure’? He won!” Maybe a warning. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2026, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reexamining-star-wars-50-years-later/1026810/310 "2026-01-29T18:55:43Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Not building a base on a planet that the Empire can attack. Planets are vulnerable, especially when you don’t have ships of your own like Star Destroyers. One thing going differently in Star Wars and the rebels would have been destroyed in one fell swoop. What should they have done instead? They need some place to service and re-arm their fighters, and at this point, they still don’t really have any capital ships that can serve as moving hangar bays. > [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > They track the death star as it approached the 4th moon of Yavin from the far side. (Which puts a lie to vader’s bitch at Ozzel in Empire about “coming out too close”. Because if the DS had come out of hyperspace on the moon-side of Yavin, the rebels would be destroyed in about 30 seconds.) But Han can’t ID a “small moon” at Alderaan in empty space (they’re past the rubble by this point)? The Rebels at Yavin know the Death Star exists, and are expecting it to show up, so when the system they’re in suddenly has a new planetoid, it’s pretty obvious that it’s the Death Star. Han has no idea something like the Death Star is even possible. He’s not looking for it at all, and he doesn’t know how many moons and planets the Alderaan system should have off the top of his head, so the presence of a spare moon doesn’t register as unusual to him until his attention is called to it. I’d also suggest that the tactics behind using a capital ship versus using a planet-size super weapon are a tad different, and best practice for one probably isn’t going to be the same for the other. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2026, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reexamining-star-wars-50-years-later/1026810/311 "2026-01-29T19:25:49Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > \*What was Luke’s “failure in the cave?” Yoda told him he didn’t need his lightsaber, nothing could hurt him. When he saw Vader, he reacted out of anger and fear. That was his failure. In other words, he did the same thing Han did - react on emotion, strike out. > [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > , not enough wonder, not enough _fun_. Well it is supposed to be darker. It’s supposed to be a downturn for the heros. I thought it had plenty of fun and wonder, but clearly YMDV. > [@Miller](#): > > I was five or six when Empire came out, and I remember not understanding that scene at all, because I didn’t recognize Mark Hamil’s face after the helmet’s faceplate exploded. I had the same issue, but I had siblings that did get it and explained it to me. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2026, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reexamining-star-wars-50-years-later/1026810/312 "2026-01-29T19:44:31Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > > [@Miller](#): > > > > I remember not understanding that scene at all, because I didn’t recognize Mark Hamil’s face after the helmet’s faceplate exploded. > > I had the same issue, but I had siblings that did get it and explained it to me. I had the benefit of knowing the paternity spoiler before seeing ESB and the cave scene still confused me. I didn’t recognize Luke’s face either. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2026, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reexamining-star-wars-50-years-later/1026810/313 "2026-01-29T19:53:28Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > My point being that _any_ base is vulnerable. I think you overestimate their chances. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2026, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reexamining-star-wars-50-years-later/1026810/314 "2026-01-29T20:06:15Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Sterilize the surface? Make the rebels have to hide under their shield, unable to come out? We can almost do that now. I’m sure a couple Star Destroyers can make a planet a living hell. You think Hoth is cold now, wait until trillions of tons of ice and top soil are blastered into the stratosphere. In the extended canon, that’s called a Base Delta Zero. [https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Base\_Delta\_Zero/Legends](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Base_Delta_Zero/Legends) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2026, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reexamining-star-wars-50-years-later/1026810/315 "2026-01-29T20:11:02Z")
It’s also worth considering that both the Emperor and Vader knew about Luke at this point, and both wanted to capture him for their own ends, so just glassing the whole planet wouldn’t have been acceptable to them, unless they could be sure Luke wasn’t on planet at the time. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2026, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reexamining-star-wars-50-years-later/1026810/316 "2026-01-29T20:18:31Z")
For anyone who hasn’t seen this (or those who have, that haven’t watched it in awhile), this is really great, and worth setting aside an hour for: https://www.youtube.com/embed/videoseries?list=PL8s6sSjUyaxUk3mCUqiNuJiMNxs9QdthO&wmode=transparent&rel=0&autohide=1&showinfo=1&enablejsapi=1 ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2026, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reexamining-star-wars-50-years-later/1026810/317 "2026-01-29T20:23:55Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > I think you overestimate their chances. There’s a small thermal vent right next to the magma vent. The shaft leads directly to the planet’s core. A precise hit will start a chain reaction which should destroy the planet. It’s about two meters wide. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2026, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reexamining-star-wars-50-years-later/1026810/318 "2026-01-29T21:16:54Z")
Two meters?! That’s impossible! ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2026, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reexamining-star-wars-50-years-later/1026810/319 "2026-01-29T22:18:55Z")
It’s not impossible. I used to bullseye _womp rats_ in my T-16 back home, they’re not much bigger than two meters. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2026, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reexamining-star-wars-50-years-later/1026810/320 "2026-01-29T22:19:14Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > That’s impossible! Only a Sith Mod deals in absolutes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reexamining-star-wars-50-years-later/1026810.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reexamining-star-wars-50-years-later/1026810.md?page=17)