# Referring to the President by number (45). Is this a new thing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 10, 2017, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/referring-to-the-president-by-number-45-is-this-a-new-thing/790930 "2017-07-10T15:36:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/referring-to-the-president-by-number-45-is-this-a-new-thing/790930/1 "2017-07-10T15:36:37Z")
I don’t remember it for past administrations and certainly not to the degree that it is being used now. ISTM that it was used somewhat to distinguish the Presidents Bush but that at least made sense. Is it supposed to be an insult? ---
**Author:** ![skdo23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@skdo23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/skdo23)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/referring-to-the-president-by-number-45-is-this-a-new-thing/790930/2 "2017-07-10T15:44:12Z")
I remember Reagan being referred to as the 40th President more often than his successors were referred to by their numbers. My WAG is that it is similar to birthdays where people tend to consider ones that are multiples of 5 as “milestones” and make a bigger deal out of them. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/referring-to-the-president-by-number-45-is-this-a-new-thing/790930/3 "2017-07-10T15:47:21Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > I don’t remember it for past administrations and certainly not to the degree that it is being used now. ISTM that it was used somewhat to distinguish the Presidents Bush but that at least made sense. > > Is it supposed to be an insult? I used to say “Papa Bush” and “Baby Bush” to distinguish between them. Yes, it is supposed to be an insult 🙂 Or maybe people are afraid that, like Voldemort, if you say “Trump” he will hear it and get into your head. Or something. It’s silliness - part of Trump Derangement Syndrome. I don’t remember people refusing to say “Obama”. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/referring-to-the-president-by-number-45-is-this-a-new-thing/790930/4 "2017-07-10T15:55:41Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > . > > It’s silliness - part of Trump Derangement Syndrome. I don’t remember people refusing to say “Obama”. Obama was an intelligent and honorable man. Why would people refuse to say “Obama?” Surely you don’t believe Trump is simply the flip side of a moderate Democrat? Perhaps you’ve missed the past 20 years or so, (or six months) of news about Trump. He’s grossly unfit in every possible way to serve as President of the United States. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/referring-to-the-president-by-number-45-is-this-a-new-thing/790930/5 "2017-07-10T16:08:56Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > I don’t remember people refusing to say “Obama”. True. No one on the Right ever failed to address the former president by his name, Barack _ **HUSSEIN** _ Obama, or one of its many variants, e.g. “Obozo,” “Obummer,” “Obambi,” “Barry Soetoro,” et cetera. We should all aspire to such gentility. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/referring-to-the-president-by-number-45-is-this-a-new-thing/790930/6 "2017-07-10T16:12:43Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > … > > Is it supposed to be an insult? Yeah, in a way. It’s a way to refer to Trump without saying his name. As Vinyl Turnip points out, it’s only insulting a little bit compared to the way other presidents were referred to. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/referring-to-the-president-by-number-45-is-this-a-new-thing/790930/7 "2017-07-10T16:34:23Z")
I first noticed it on Politico. Their section on the Obama administration was “44.” I reckon it started as an inside-the-beltway thing, and has now hit the mainstream. ---
**Author:** ![YamatoTwinkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/cc9497/32.png) [@YamatoTwinkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YamatoTwinkie)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/referring-to-the-president-by-number-45-is-this-a-new-thing/790930/8 "2017-07-10T16:47:36Z")
I think it was primarily used to distinguish between the two Bush Presidencies, but it continued as a political-nerd shorthand. I’ve never seen it used with malice. If anything, I would have thought that it’d be an honor to be on the same list as “1” “3” “16”, “26” and “32”. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/referring-to-the-president-by-number-45-is-this-a-new-thing/790930/9 "2017-07-10T17:30:22Z")
I apparently have been missing this. The only time I remember seeing a President being called by a number was George W. Bush being called 43. Which makes sense with a previous President having shared his name. I wasn’t around back in the 1820’s so I don’t know if people were talking about what 6 was doing. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/referring-to-the-president-by-number-45-is-this-a-new-thing/790930/10 "2017-07-10T17:31:37Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > I first noticed it on Politico. Their section on the Obama administration was “44.” > > I reckon it started as an inside-the-beltway thing, and has now hit the mainstream. Here’s an example: [44 to reverse 43s executive orders.](http://www.politico.com/story/2009/01/44-to-reverse-43s-executive-orders-017365) ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/referring-to-the-president-by-number-45-is-this-a-new-thing/790930/11 "2017-07-10T17:35:35Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I apparently have been missing this. The only time I remember seeing a President being called by a number was George W. Bush being called 43. Which makes sense with a previous President having shared his name. > > I wasn’t around back in the 1820’s so I don’t know if people were talking about what 6 was doing. Oh, it’s a thing alright. > [@](#): > > “The Van Buren Boys” is the 148th episode of the sitcom Seinfeld, and name of a fictional New York street gang. Their sign is one hand with all the fingers and thumb ‘up’ and spread out. The other hand has all but the thumb and pointer finger up, for a total of eight (8). The gang is named for the 8th President of the United States, Martin Van Buren (who was the first president from New York). ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/referring-to-the-president-by-number-45-is-this-a-new-thing/790930/12 "2017-07-10T17:51:56Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I apparently have been missing this. The only time I remember seeing a President being called by a number was George W. Bush being called 43. Which makes sense with a previous President having shared his name. > > I wasn’t around back in the 1820’s so I don’t know if people were talking about what 6 was doing. His father said: _I am number 2._ To which the son replied: _Who is number 1?_ And the father responded: _You are number 6._ That’s how it all started. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/referring-to-the-president-by-number-45-is-this-a-new-thing/790930/13 "2017-07-10T18:20:32Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I apparently have been missing this. The only time I remember seeing a President being called by a number was George W. Bush being called 43. Which makes sense with a previous President having shared his name. > > I wasn’t around back in the 1820’s so I don’t know if people were talking about what 6 was doing. It may be subtle in some cases but it is pretty wide spread. [CNN Politics](http://www.cnn.com/politics) The menu across the top of the page reads, “45, CONGRESS, SECURITY, THE NINE, TRUMPMERICA, STATE.” ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/referring-to-the-president-by-number-45-is-this-a-new-thing/790930/14 "2017-07-10T18:29:21Z")
I think it started becoming widespread to distinguish the Bushes. 41 and 43. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/referring-to-the-president-by-number-45-is-this-a-new-thing/790930/15 "2017-07-10T18:35:45Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > I think it started becoming widespread to distinguish the Bushes. 41 and 43. Yes. But it was still used occasionally as far back as I recall, which is basically Kennedy. It was mostly used in the news for elections, inaugurations, or deaths that I recall. I doubt anyone but the Bushes were known by their numbers, except George as the first. I assume still kids all get some intro to them by number in history classes also, so I remember the first few, and that Lincoln was the 16th. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/referring-to-the-president-by-number-45-is-this-a-new-thing/790930/16 "2017-07-10T19:57:09Z")
It has been an inside the Beltway thing for as long as I’ve followed politics. It’s probably similar to how some athletes are sometimes referred to by their uniform number. It started coming into more popular use around the time of George W Bush, which also saw the rise of a lot of political blogs aimed at more wonky readership. I’d say it is similar to the use of POTUS and SCOTUS. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/referring-to-the-president-by-number-45-is-this-a-new-thing/790930/17 "2017-07-10T20:18:14Z")
It was a thing back in the late 19th century to distinguish between Grover Cleveland’s non-consecutive terms. “When was Augustus Garland the Attorney General?” “GC-22.” By the way, the symmetry of having an AG whose initials are A.G. is the kind of thing more presidents should strive for. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/referring-to-the-president-by-number-45-is-this-a-new-thing/790930/18 "2017-07-11T01:54:10Z")
It started as a means of separating the Bushes. It was short and catchy. It works well in headlines. People started using for Obama. People continue using it for Trump. People will continue using it for the next President. I’m sure it can be used as an insult. Anything can be used as an insult. Does the OP have any examples at all of its being used as an insult? One. How about one, to start. Then we can see whether this is a thing. Until it’s a thing it isn’t a thing. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/referring-to-the-president-by-number-45-is-this-a-new-thing/790930/19 "2017-07-11T01:59:17Z")
I don’t use the number to diminish the current occupant of the White House. I diminish him by not capitalizing his last name. My feeling is that most of the time we’ve seen it over the many years that he’s been a public eyesore the ENTIRE name was capitalized. I’m just trying to restore a little balance to the universe. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Downtown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Mr\_Downtown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Downtown)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/referring-to-the-president-by-number-45-is-this-a-new-thing/790930/20 "2017-07-11T04:09:57Z")
I first began to see it used, on other forums, as a way to avoid rewarding a narcissist. Sort of the modern version of referring to FDR only as “that man in the White House.” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/referring-to-the-president-by-number-45-is-this-a-new-thing/790930.md?page=2)