# Refinements to Top TV Show Polling **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 9, 2010, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refinements-to-top-tv-show-polling/538812 "2010-05-09T15:22:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refinements-to-top-tv-show-polling/538812/1 "2010-05-09T15:22:18Z")
Starting with [Your Favorite All-Time TV Shows](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=556753) and following up with [The Best All-Time TV Show [vote for up to 10]](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=562451) over 60 unique Dopers have contributed ideas and lists of shows to be considered in a “Top TV Shows Of All Time” poll. Along the way various suggestions for refinements to the list(s) and the way they are presented have come up, starting with [AuntiePam](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12431394&postcount=10) and followed up by [silenus](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12431468&postcount=13)and others. After a day to think about it, I decided to start this thread so more ideas can be shared and discussed. If the genre approach makes good sense to you, please post (in this thread) a minimum of 5 shows each in whatever genres you feel are relevant. Use your own criteria, whether Best or Favorite or some other method of judging shows. If another approach makes better sense to you, describe it and give examples. At this moment over 120 voters have voted in the latest effort at a comprehensive poll. Where we go from there is up to the Dopers who want to express an opinion about the issues. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refinements-to-top-tv-show-polling/538812/2 "2010-05-09T16:27:09Z")
Maybe there should be a separate thread for each genre? And maybe the number of genres could be limited: [ul] [li]Drama[/li][li]Comedy[/li][li]Reality[/li][/ul] This leaves out documentaries, science, talk shows, etc., but it’s the dramas, sitcoms, and reality shows that have regular separate threads here, so that’s probably what most of us are watching. Cooking and fashion shows would fall under Reality. ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refinements-to-top-tv-show-polling/538812/3 "2010-05-09T21:05:07Z")
Just so we can discuss some specifics, here’s a sorted view of the “Top 20” voting after 130 votes. Included are the 113 and 120 results, and the sort is on the 130 column: ```auto Voters: 113 Voters: 120 Voters: 130 The Simpsons 38 33.63% 42 35.00% 45 34.62% All In The Family 25 22.12% 26 21.67% 29 22.31% Seinfeld 22 19.47% 24 20.00% 29 22.31% The Daily Show with Jon Stewart 24 21.24% 26 21.67% 28 21.54% The Wire 27 23.89% 27 22.50% 27 20.77% The Twilight Zone 24 21.24% 26 21.67% 27 20.77% Firefly 24 21.24% 25 20.83% 27 20.77% M*A*S*H 24 21.24% 25 20.83% 27 20.77% Cheers 23 20.35% 25 20.83% 26 20.00% The Sopranos 22 19.47% 24 20.00% 26 20.00% Monty Python's Flying Circus 20 17.70% 22 18.33% 25 19.23% Buffy 21 18.58% 22 18.33% 24 18.46% The West Wing 16 14.16% 18 15.00% 20 15.38% Dick Van Dyke Show 16 14.16% 17 14.17% 20 15.38% Fawlty Towers 11 9.73% 13 10.83% 19 14.62% NOVA 17 15.04% 18 15.00% 18 13.85% Northern Exposure 15 13.27% 17 14.17% 18 13.85% Arrested Development 15 13.27% 16 13.33% 18 13.85% Six Feet Under 13 11.50% 16 13.33% 17 13.08% WKRP In Cincinnati 14 12.39% 14 11.67% 17 13.08% ``` Unless a new process of collecting likely candidates is greatly different in its results, I’d say the Comedy category is well represented in this Top 20 grouping. _The Wire_ is the highest (so far) ranking Drama and it’s #4 on the current list. I’m not familiar with some of these shows but the Drama genre is poorly represented here with for sure 5 and maybe a few more out of 20. _NOVA_ is the only non-Drama and non-Comedy I see, and even in the entire Top 51 there are only a few shows that fit that category. Based on the runaway nature of _The Simpsons_ I wouldn’t predict much more than a shuffling about of the Top Ten or so. A case could be made for a run-off of the Top 12 if genres are ignored. Otherwise the Drama section would need to pull in some shows from lower down. These observations are likely to change the more votes we get, and there have been some startling changes in ranking as snapshots are made. The only thing “clear” to me at this point is that unless there’s some major dropoff, _The Simpsons_ is a clear #1 and anything else would be to determine #2 and others. Just my view at this stage. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refinements-to-top-tv-show-polling/538812/4 "2010-05-09T21:24:49Z")
Personally, I’d ask people rank stuff by factors: Depth Humor Production Quality Acting Writing Fun The one with the highest product of values or the highest 6D [n-agonal](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_diagonal) would be the “Best”. “Favorite” can, of course, simply be calculated from viewership. It’s not a very meaningful statistic. ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refinements-to-top-tv-show-polling/538812/5 "2010-05-09T21:27:04Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Personally, I’d ask people rank stuff by factors: > > Depth > Humor > Production Quality > Acting > Writing > Fun Would you provide the list of shows or ask them to? ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2010, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refinements-to-top-tv-show-polling/538812/6 "2010-05-09T23:56:30Z")
Here are the snapshots for 113, 129, 130, 139 and 140 votes, for all 51 items in the poll. Sorted on 140. ```auto Voters: 113 Voters: 120 Voters: 130 Voters: 139 Voters: 140 The Simpsons 38 33.63% 42 35.00% 45 34.62% 51 36.69% 52 37.14% The Twilight Zone 24 21.24% 26 21.67% 27 20.77% 31 22.30% 32 22.86% M*A*S*H 24 21.24% 25 20.83% 27 20.77% 31 22.30% 32 22.86% Seinfeld 22 19.47% 24 20.00% 29 22.31% 31 22.30% 31 22.14% The Daily Show with Jon Stewart 24 21.24% 26 21.67% 28 21.54% 30 21.58% 30 21.43% The Wire 27 23.89% 27 22.50% 27 20.77% 30 21.58% 30 21.43% All In The Family 25 22.12% 26 21.67% 29 22.31% 29 20.86% 29 20.71% Firefly 24 21.24% 25 20.83% 27 20.77% 29 20.86% 29 20.71% The Sopranos 22 19.47% 24 20.00% 26 20.00% 28 20.14% 28 20.00% Monty Python's Flying Circus 20 17.70% 22 18.33% 25 19.23% 28 20.14% 28 20.00% Cheers 23 20.35% 25 20.83% 26 20.00% 27 19.42% 27 19.29% Buffy 21 18.58% 22 18.33% 24 18.46% 25 17.99% 25 17.86% Dick Van Dyke Show 16 14.16% 17 14.17% 20 15.38% 22 15.83% 22 15.71% The West Wing 16 14.16% 18 15.00% 20 15.38% 21 15.11% 22 15.71% NOVA 17 15.04% 18 15.00% 18 13.85% 20 14.39% 21 15.00% Fawlty Towers 11 9.73% 13 10.83% 19 14.62% 20 14.39% 20 14.29% Arrested Development 15 13.27% 16 13.33% 18 13.85% 19 13.67% 19 13.57% WKRP In Cincinnati 14 12.39% 14 11.67% 17 13.08% 19 13.67% 19 13.57% Futurama 13 11.50% 15 12.50% 16 12.31% 19 13.67% 19 13.57% Northern Exposure 15 13.27% 17 14.17% 18 13.85% 18 12.95% 18 12.86% The Bob Newhart Show 12 10.62% 13 10.83% 16 12.31% 18 12.95% 18 12.86% Doctor Who 13 11.50% 13 10.83% 15 11.54% 18 12.95% 18 12.86% Star Trek: TOS 13 11.50% 14 11.67% 15 11.54% 17 12.23% 18 12.86% Six Feet Under 13 11.50% 16 13.33% 17 13.08% 17 12.23% 17 12.14% Star Trek: TNG 14 12.39% 15 12.50% 16 12.31% 17 12.23% 17 12.14% Barney Miller 13 11.50% 14 11.67% 15 11.54% 17 12.23% 17 12.14% Battlestar Galactica 14 12.39% 14 11.67% 14 10.77% 15 10.79% 16 11.43% Lost 12 10.62% 12 10.00% 12 9.23% 14 10.07% 15 10.71% Whose Line Is It Anyway? 11 9.73% 13 10.83% 13 10.00% 13 9.35% 13 9.29% Good Eats 12 10.62% 12 10.00% 13 10.00% 13 9.35% 13 9.29% Deadwood 9 7.96% 10 8.33% 10 7.69% 12 8.63% 12 8.57% Band of Brothers 11 9.73% 11 9.17% 11 8.46% 11 7.91% 12 8.57% News Radio 11 9.73% 11 9.17% 11 8.46% 11 7.91% 11 7.86% Freaks & Geeks 8 7.08% 9 7.50% 10 7.69% 10 7.19% 10 7.14% The Office (Original -- UK) 6 5.31% 8 6.67% 10 7.69% 10 7.19% 10 7.14% House 9 7.96% 9 7.50% 9 6.92% 10 7.19% 10 7.14% Angel 8 7.08% 9 7.50% 9 6.92% 10 7.19% 10 7.14% Rome 6 5.31% 7 5.83% 8 6.15% 10 7.19% 10 7.14% Twin Peaks 8 7.08% 8 6.67% 9 6.92% 9 6.47% 9 6.43% The Shield 8 7.08% 8 6.67% 8 6.15% 8 5.76% 8 5.71% The Golden Girls 8 7.08% 8 6.67% 8 6.15% 8 5.76% 8 5.71% Breaking Bad 7 6.19% 8 6.67% 8 6.15% 8 5.76% 8 5.71% NCIS 6 5.31% 6 5.00% 6 4.62% 7 5.04% 7 5.00% Family Guy 5 4.42% 6 5.00% 6 4.62% 7 5.04% 7 5.00% ER 5 4.42% 5 4.17% 5 3.85% 6 4.32% 7 5.00% Mad Men 2 1.77% 5 4.17% 5 3.85% 5 3.60% 5 3.57% I Claudius 4 3.54% 4 3.33% 5 3.85% 5 3.60% 5 3.57% The Avengers 3 2.65% 3 2.50% 3 2.31% 3 2.16% 3 2.14% Gilligan's Island 3 2.65% 3 2.50% 3 2.31% 3 2.16% 3 2.14% Carnivale 3 2.65% 3 2.50% 3 2.31% 3 2.16% 3 2.14% My Name Is Earl 2 1.77% 3 2.50% 3 2.31% 3 2.16% 3 2.14% Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 113 Voters: 120 Voters: 130 Voters: 139 Voters: 140 ``` ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refinements-to-top-tv-show-polling/538812/7 "2010-05-10T04:10:01Z")
> [@Zeldar](#): > > Would you provide the list of shows or ask them to? First, you’d probably have everyone rank each show they’ve seen on say a scale of 0 to 9 for each of the 6 factors. Then you could either cull shows with too little data, or apply some sort of function that lessened the result of shows with very little data. As an example of the latter case, if you had two shows, A and B, and A had 3 response: Factor 1: 5 Factor 2: 3 Factor 3: 7 And B had three responses: Factor 1: 4 Factor 2: 6 Factor 3: 5 Factor 1: 6 Factor 2: 2 Factor 3: 7 Factor 1: 8 Factor 2: 4 Factor 3: 1 Then you have a function f(n) = -1/(n + 0.5) + 1 where n is the number of reviewers, and where as n grows, the function approaches but never equals 1. f(1) = 0.33 f(3) = 0.71 Show A’s factors, after multiplying by the result of the function (where n = 1) would be: Factor 1: 1.65 Factor 2: 1.32 Factor 3: 0.33 Show B’s factors, after multiplying by the result of the function (where n = 3) would be: Factor 1: 2.84 Factor 2: 4.26 Factor 3: 3.55 Factor 1: 4.26 Factor 2: 1.42 Factor 3: 4.97 Factor 1: 5.68 Factor 2: 2.84 Factor 3: 0.71 Now we average together the results of B: Factor 1: 4.26 Factor 2: 2.84 Factor 3: 3.08 Now for determination of Best we can either add the factors: A total: 3.3 B total: 10.18 Or take the [distance from (0, 0, 0) in a 3D cube](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euclidean_distance): A distance: 2.14 B distance: 5.97 The second method gives a slight lead to shows that excel at particular factors, rather than being mediocre at everything. (I had a job where this sort of math was important, in case you haven’t noticed) ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2010, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refinements-to-top-tv-show-polling/538812/8 "2010-05-10T22:46:48Z")
Here’s an update on the poll’s progress: ```auto Voters: 113 Voters: 146 Voters: 164 The Simpsons 38 33.63% 55 37.67% 63 38.41% Seinfeld 22 19.47% 32 21.92% 41 25.00% M*A*S*H 24 21.24% 33 22.60% 40 24.39% The Wire 27 23.89% 32 21.92% 38 23.17% The Twilight Zone 24 21.24% 33 22.60% 36 21.95% The Sopranos 22 19.47% 30 20.55% 36 21.95% Firefly 24 21.24% 31 21.23% 35 21.34% Monty Python's Flying Circus 20 17.70% 30 20.55% 35 21.34% The Daily Show with Jon Stewart 24 21.24% 31 21.23% 34 20.73% Cheers 23 20.35% 28 19.18% 33 20.12% All In The Family 25 22.12% 30 20.55% 30 18.29% Buffy 21 18.58% 25 17.12% 28 17.07% Arrested Development 15 13.27% 21 14.38% 28 17.07% The West Wing 16 14.16% 23 15.75% 27 16.46% NOVA 17 15.04% 23 15.75% 26 15.85% Fawlty Towers 11 9.73% 22 15.07% 25 15.24% Six Feet Under 13 11.50% 20 13.70% 23 14.02% Star Trek: TNG 14 12.39% 19 13.01% 23 14.02% Star Trek: TOS 13 11.50% 19 13.01% 23 14.02% Dick Van Dyke Show 16 14.16% 22 15.07% 22 13.41% Futurama 13 11.50% 19 13.01% 22 13.41% Northern Exposure 15 13.27% 19 13.01% 21 12.80% WKRP In Cincinnati 14 12.39% 19 13.01% 20 12.20% Doctor Who 13 11.50% 18 12.33% 20 12.20% The Bob Newhart Show 12 10.62% 18 12.33% 19 11.59% Battlestar Galactica 14 12.39% 17 11.64% 19 11.59% Barney Miller 13 11.50% 17 11.64% 19 11.59% Lost 12 10.62% 17 11.64% 19 11.59% Deadwood 9 7.96% 13 8.90% 16 9.76% Band of Brothers 11 9.73% 12 8.22% 16 9.76% Freaks & Geeks 8 7.08% 11 7.53% 15 9.15% Whose Line Is It Anyway? 11 9.73% 14 9.59% 14 8.54% House 9 7.96% 14 9.59% 14 8.54% Good Eats 12 10.62% 13 8.90% 13 7.93% News Radio 11 9.73% 11 7.53% 13 7.93% Rome 6 5.31% 11 7.53% 12 7.32% The Office (Original -- UK) 6 5.31% 11 7.53% 12 7.32% Twin Peaks 8 7.08% 10 6.85% 12 7.32% Breaking Bad 7 6.19% 9 6.16% 12 7.32% Family Guy 5 4.42% 9 6.16% 11 6.71% Angel 8 7.08% 10 6.85% 10 6.10% The Shield 8 7.08% 9 6.16% 10 6.10% The Golden Girls 8 7.08% 9 6.16% 9 5.49% ER 5 4.42% 8 5.48% 9 5.49% NCIS 6 5.31% 7 4.79% 7 4.27% Mad Men 2 1.77% 6 4.11% 7 4.27% The Avengers 3 2.65% 3 2.05% 6 3.66% I Claudius 4 3.54% 5 3.42% 5 3.05% My Name Is Earl 2 1.77% 3 2.05% 5 3.05% Carnivale 3 2.65% 4 2.74% 4 2.44% Gilligan's Island 3 2.65% 3 2.05% 3 1.83% Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 113 Voters: 146 Voters: 164 ```