# Refugees **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 28, 2001, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refugees/78489 "2001-08-28T07:21:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2001, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refugees/78489/41 "2001-09-11T05:23:14Z")
The Australian Federal Government has lost the case before the Federal Court. North J has ruled that those aboard the Tampa were illegally detained and that they be brought to the mainland. The Commonwealth will appeal. ---
**Author:** ![LinoleumInnocence](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@LinoleumInnocence](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinoleumInnocence)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2001, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refugees/78489/42 "2001-09-11T10:23:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by picmr \* > \*\*The Australian Federal Government has lost the case before the Federal Court. North J has ruled that those aboard the Tampa were illegally detained and that they be brought to the mainland. The Commonwealth will appeal. \*\* Ah crap. Appeal, Appeal!!! Well I guess this thread will be around for quite a while. So are the refugees stuck aboard the Manoora or do they get to get shipped on to Nauru and NZ? Li I haven’t seen a paper in a couple of days, or the news or even a radio. Been working too hard. Heh. ---
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2001, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refugees/78489/43 "2001-09-11T14:57:40Z")
The _Manoora_ is now not going to stop in Port Moresby. It will instead proceed straight to Nauru. The government has now announced it will appeal (and the ALP says it backs the government in its appeal). For those intested, the judgement can be found [here.](http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/cth/federal_ct/2001/1297.html) The judgement is interesting. Liberty Victoria was arguing that the rescuees _were_ lawfully detained under the _Migration Act_, but lost on this (and almost everything else, including standing). North J found that they were unlawfully detained. The government is in a _very_ tricky legal position, almost a Catch 22. They could not argue that they had exercised their “very broad powers” to detain, expel etc. because those powers also confer certain rights on illegal immigrants (to apply for protection visas and to be subject to due process). So the Commonwealth had to argue that the rescuees were _not detained_ on the MV Tampa _even after_ the ship was immobilised by the Captain and boarded by the SAS. North found that they _were_ detained (IMHO duh) and that if the Commonwealth _hadn’t_ been acting under the provisions of _Migration Act_ then they were detaining the rescuees unlawfully. [take this precis with a pillar of salt, IANAL] ---
**Author:** ![LinoleumInnocence](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@LinoleumInnocence](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinoleumInnocence)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2001, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refugees/78489/44 "2001-09-17T11:40:14Z")
The opinion was reversed on appeal. Which I think was great!!! Courts should not be making policy, that’s for our elected officials. Well that is one mess sorted out. Now we just have to deal with Ansett, the support we will be lending the US and what everyone should get me for a Christmas present. It isn’t too early to start shopping. Li ---
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2001, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refugees/78489/45 "2001-09-17T14:15:53Z")
☹ Yes, the decision has been overturned on appeal to the Full Federal Court, with the Chief Justice dissenting. The next (and final) level of appeal would be to the High Court (like the US Supreme Court and the UK House of Lords). Civil liberties groups seem at present unlikely to appeal, partly because the government are coming after them for costs (I’m advised by my wife that I should only be a little bit worried about this). A report can be found [here](http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/2001/09/18/FFX6OQ30QRC.html) and the summary delivered by the Court [here.](http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/cth/federal_ct/2001/1329.html). The opinion of the majority was > [@](#): > > The majority judges have concluded that the Commonwealth was acting within its executive power under s 61 of the Constitution in the steps it took to prevent the landing of the rescuees. The closure of the Christmas Island port was done under a statutory authority which was not challenged. **The majority has also concluded that the rescuees were not detained by the Commonwealth or their freedom restricted by anything that the Commonwealth did.** (emphasis added) whereas the Chief Justice found the Commonwealth trapped in the way I outlined in my earlier post: > [@](#): > > He has taken the view that whilst the power to expel people entering Australia illegally is undoubted, it is a power that derives only from laws made by the Parliament and not from powers otherwise exercisable by the executive government. He has taken the view that since the powers provided in the Migration Act 1958 have not been relied upon, the Commonwealth government had no power to detain those rescued from the Tampa. He considers that on the facts of the case there was a detention by the Commonwealth and that since it was not justified by the powers conferred by the Parliament under the Migration Act it was not justified by law. He would therefore dismiss the appeals. To reply to > [@](#): > > _Posted by LinoleumInnocence_ > Courts should not be making policy, that’s for our elected officials. I agree of course, but I disagree that this was what this is all about. The question is whether the government acted lawfully. The executive may exercise powers granted to it by the legislature or under the Constitution. It is still my view that they did not have the power to act the way they did. ---
**Author:** ![buddy1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6a8cbe/32.png) [@buddy1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddy1)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2001, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refugees/78489/46 "2001-09-17T14:28:59Z")
This story illustrates why Islam is not what it claims to be. First, Indonisia is a MOSLEM country-and the Afghans are muslim-why are they interested in entering a christian country? If mercy were really an attribute of Indonisia, then why didn’t their fellow muslims welcome them with open arms?These people (the “refugees”) are economic migrants. This is proven by the fact that they were able to afford the roughly $10,000 fare to get to Autralia. Isn’t it strange that orthodox Islam condemns the “degenerate” west, and scorns western culture-yet moslems invariably want to go to western countries! I would belive these people if they actually wanted to go to Algeria,or Saudi Arabia instead-they travel halfway around the world! ---
**Author:** ![woolly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ebca7d/32.png) [@woolly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woolly)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2001, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refugees/78489/47 "2001-09-17T14:51:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by buddy1 \* > \*\*This story illustrates why Islam is not what it claims to be. First, Indonisia is a MOSLEM country-and the Afghans are muslim-why are they interested in entering a christian country? \*\* Maybe having fled one ethnically divided/sectarian country then another one even if less radically fundamental isn’t particularly attractive. And the notion that there aren’t profound differences between the various Islamic sects is patently wrong. For example the Sh’ite and Sunni (apologies if the spelling is wrong). Iran has been on the brink of war with the Taliban regime for some time. As to their status as economic refugees, well I’m comfortable to wait the results of processing their applications before making any further judgements. What I do know is that if I was in the position of having my family threatened by the ruling body in the manner occurring in Afghanistan, then I’d find the 10K somehow and get out as fast as possible, and as far away as possible and bugger the paperwork. BTW picmr What is your view on reports that some of the asylum seekers on the Manoora are refusing to disembark on Naru and pressuring others to do the same? ---
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2001, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refugees/78489/48 "2001-09-17T15:31:13Z")
The story to which **woolly** refers can be found [here.](http://www.abc.net.au/news/newslink/nat/newsnat-17sep2001-91.htm) Other than that it’s not very surprising, I don’t have much to say about it. I do have confidence that the navy will deal with the situation as best they can, but these are pretty desperate people and might be expected to make things very trying on board the _Manoora_. The ructions with the Nauruan landholders and the subsequent withdrawal of the original accommodation is a worry too. That little speck of bird shit in the Sth Pacific is in plenty of turmoil already. I doubt their capacity to cope with this, even if we are footing the bill. ---
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2001, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refugees/78489/49 "2001-09-19T14:03:20Z")
The Australian government is to pass, with support from the opposition, legislation that retrospectively declares their actions legal and makes court appeals illegal. I don’t have a link to the new Bill yet, but it is said to be considerably less offensive and more properly drafted than the one I previously linked to.[The main civil liberties group is dropping its action (as it now appears fruitless),](http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/2001/09/19/FFXT48N0SRC.html) but one independent lawyer says he intends to proceed. don’t know how, but he is a brave man. Some members of the government are following **buddy1** ’s lead and whipping up hysteria about the rescuees, saying that [y’know, wink wink, they’re Afghans…](http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/2001/09/19/FFXOYKG0SRC.html) On a brighter note, the first group has been greeted with [garlands of flowers](http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/2001/09/19/FFX1V8N0SRC.html) on Nauru. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refugees/78489.md?page=2)