# Refurbishing the Image of Walt Disney? (Harlan Ellison and Mary Poppins). **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 20, 2013, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refurbishing-the-image-of-walt-disney-harlan-ellison-and-mary-poppins/676785 "2013-12-20T01:42:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refurbishing-the-image-of-walt-disney-harlan-ellison-and-mary-poppins/676785/101 "2013-12-24T18:17:58Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Well, “everybody dies miserably” IS a tough sales pitch. > > Hugo \*himself \*rewrote a happy (ok, happier) ending for the opera version, which is kind of unexpected given that opera tends to end up with dead people all over the stage. Wonder what Ellison would have said about that. I can’t see any reason why he would say anything at all about a writer adapting his own work. ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2013, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refurbishing-the-image-of-walt-disney-harlan-ellison-and-mary-poppins/676785/102 "2013-12-25T19:38:47Z")
Well, I don’t know enough about Ellison to know what he might think, but I can think of some reasons why an advocate of creative control for writers might be leery of a major adaptation for a different format, even if done by the author him or herself: If Hugo got strong encouragement to revise a certain way from the opera producers (“hey, victor, a nice big check awaits if you…” Could easily be construed as selling out. If Hugo made a major change for the money, that’s compromising a creative vision. Boo Radley could be the senator next door who saves scout and Jem. HoldenCaulfield could vow to turn his life around in the final three pages. Those would be very different books with different narratives and different tones. A sad ending changed to a happy ending…I can easily see that being a real concern for someone like Ellison from this perspective. And if Victor does it, for whatever reason, that just makes it more difficult for other writers to resist the pressure on them to do the same. As I said, no idea if this would be an issue for Ellison himself. But I can see it for someone who thinks that way. ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2013, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refurbishing-the-image-of-walt-disney-harlan-ellison-and-mary-poppins/676785/103 "2013-12-26T11:34:10Z")
And don’t forget, Dickens changed the ending of Great Expectations after one of his friends read the original not-happily-married-ever-after one and said, “You know, Chuck, this isn’t very satisfying.” Little known fact: Peppermint Patty was good friends with Dickens. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2013, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refurbishing-the-image-of-walt-disney-harlan-ellison-and-mary-poppins/676785/104 "2013-12-27T21:09:39Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Another example to consider: _ **101 Dalmatians** _. Who among us who has seen the movie _and read the book_ can honestly say that Disney didn’t do a _better_ job of telling the story? I can’t! I’ll add _Bedknobs and Broomsticks_ to the list. The movie wasn’t very close to the book (_Bed-knob and Broom-stick_) but the movie was watchable entertainment while the book was a difficult slog. Be that as it may, _Mary Poppins_ the movie was almost unwatchable as far as I’m concerned. Try watching it while skipping past all the musical numbers and there’s almost no there there. Over 60% of the “plot” is just a segue to get to the next song and doesn’t forward the trajectory of the story in the slightest. And what’s left is about 22 minutes’ worth of movie. ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2013, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refurbishing-the-image-of-walt-disney-harlan-ellison-and-mary-poppins/676785/105 "2013-12-28T17:17:46Z")
And the book is even more episodic than the movie…there’s very little in the way of overarching storyline. Each chapter is its own little short story with not much to connect it to the rest of the book. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2013, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refurbishing-the-image-of-walt-disney-harlan-ellison-and-mary-poppins/676785/106 "2013-12-28T21:31:34Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Even in the Charles Laughton film, everyone lived happily ever after, as I recall. 🙂 Well, Mauren O’Hara’s Esmerelda doesn’t die, and neither does Laughton’s Quasi… but Quasi isn’t happy at the end. He has to watch the love of his life depart with another man, and as the movie ends, he’s weeping to the gargoyles that he wishes he too were made of stone. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2013, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refurbishing-the-image-of-walt-disney-harlan-ellison-and-mary-poppins/676785/107 "2013-12-28T22:12:23Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Well, Mauren O’Hara’s Esmerelda doesn’t die, and neither does Laughton’s Quasi… but Quasi isn’t happy at the end. He has to watch the love of his life depart with another man, and as the movie ends, he’s weeping to the gargoyles that he wishes he too were made of stone. To that extent, it indeed keeps the theme of Hugo’s novel: if you are ugly, you’re screwed. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2013, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refurbishing-the-image-of-walt-disney-harlan-ellison-and-mary-poppins/676785/108 "2013-12-29T05:06:45Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > I’ll add _Bedknobs and Broomsticks_ to the list. The movie wasn’t very close to the book (_Bed-knob and Broom-stick_) but the movie was watchable entertainment while the book was a difficult slog. > > Be that as it may, _Mary Poppins_ the movie was almost unwatchable as far as I’m concerned. Try watching it while skipping past all the musical numbers and there’s almost no there there. Over 60% of the “plot” is just a segue to get to the next song and doesn’t forward the trajectory of the story in the slightest. And what’s left is about 22 minutes’ worth of movie. Wait, what? You preferred _Bedknobs and Broomsticks_ to _Mary Poppins_? You’re literally the first person ever that I’ve heard of with this opinion. To each their own, but I find B&B a pretty weak attempt to replicate MP. It has its moments, but really doesn’t work. ---
**Author:** ![Eutychus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Eutychus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eutychus)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2013, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refurbishing-the-image-of-walt-disney-harlan-ellison-and-mary-poppins/676785/109 "2013-12-29T13:41:01Z")
> [@Yookeroo](#): > > Wait, what? You preferred _Bedknobs and Broomsticks_ to _Mary Poppins_? You’re literally the first person ever that I’ve heard of with this opinion. To each their own, but I find B&B a pretty weak attempt to replicate MP. It has its moments, but really doesn’t work. [Um …](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=168929) ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2013, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refurbishing-the-image-of-walt-disney-harlan-ellison-and-mary-poppins/676785/110 "2013-12-29T14:30:31Z")
It would make for an interesting WWII trilogy, in between **Schindler’s List** and **Come and See** ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refurbishing-the-image-of-walt-disney-harlan-ellison-and-mary-poppins/676785/111 "2013-12-30T12:59:06Z")
Back to the original topic for a moment… As I said earlier, I have seen the movie version of Mary Poppins, and liked it (but didn’t love it), despite its corniness and Dick Van Dyke’s atrocious hamming and awful Cockney accent. I have never read any of P.L. Travers’ stories. I have no dog in this fight. I don’t know if she was right to consider Disney a sleazy liar, if he was right to view her as an unreasonable pain in the rear, or if the truth lies elsewhere. The only thing I WILL say is that the ending was dishonest, and the (allegedly) real-life ending would have made for a better movie ending! P.L. Travers DIDN’T like the movie, despite what _ **Saving Mr. Banks** _ shows. It would have been much better, more honest and more dramatic to show Emma Thompson approaching Tom Hanks at the end, demanding that the animation be removed, and to have Hanks tell her, “Pamela, that ship has sailed.” ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refurbishing-the-image-of-walt-disney-harlan-ellison-and-mary-poppins/676785/112 "2013-12-30T15:27:33Z")
> [@Uncle\_Jocko](#): > > Walt actually grew up in Marceline, Missouri. As a native of southern Iowa, about as far south as one can go with actually being in Missouri\*, I can assure you that accents in that part of the world can sound very Southern indeed. Probably not Cajun, exactly, but drawling, yes… Hijack - where are you from? - I have friends in Bedford and my husband spent his summers in Mt. Ayr. Its really stunningly beautiful down there. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refurbishing-the-image-of-walt-disney-harlan-ellison-and-mary-poppins/676785/113 "2013-12-30T16:24:59Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > Didn’t he say he knew he was dying some years ago, not from a medical diagnosis, but akin to a dog knowing it’s dying and going somewhere to die in peace? Went to see him and Peter David signing books (and talking non-stop, which was ok because he was hilarious). I waited in line and as I shuffled past him he croaked _“What? You’re too cheap to buy a Harlan Ellison book? You know I’m dying, and this could be your last chance…”_ “Sorry, but I’m just here to get Mr. David to sign a comic book.” _“You do realize that I’m ready to just keel over and die any minute, don’t you? And you, YOU, could own Harlan Ellison’s last autograph! But, no, now it’ll be that little old lady behind you…Ma’m! If I shuffle off this mortal coil right after I sign your book, promise me you won’t keep it-- get it up on eBay right away, make some money off me!”_ ---
**Author:** ![Slade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@Slade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slade)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2013, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refurbishing-the-image-of-walt-disney-harlan-ellison-and-mary-poppins/676785/114 "2013-12-30T16:27:53Z")
> [@Uncle\_Jocko](#): > > - Which brings to mind the old joke, if only Iowa would give its southern row of counties to Missouri, it would end up raising the total IQ of both states. Average IQ, not total. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refurbishing-the-image-of-walt-disney-harlan-ellison-and-mary-poppins/676785/115 "2014-02-18T13:44:34Z")
Reviving this thread because I just re-watched **Song of the South** last night. Despite all the controversy about the film, it really did offer a situation in which Disney’s interaction with one of the folks involved shows him in an extraordinarily good light. Actor James Baskett was an accomplished performer with several films to his credit, and who already had done voice work for Disney in Dumbo, when he decided to audition for another voice part in the upcoming Song of the South. Disney reportedly heard the voice, wanted to meet him, and signed him up for the Uncle Remus part (although he ended up doing a couple of cartoon voices in the film as well). His work was almost universally praised, but the story is that he could not attend the opening in Atlanta because of racial segregation in the city. (I have read accounts claiming that this was true, and others calling it a legend. It could be that they feared difficulty with some of the festivities, and with getting a room for the actor and so decided to avoid the entire scene) He nevertheless won an Oscar for his role (albeit a special one), the first black performer to be so honored. To quote Wikipedia on this: > [@](#): > > Walt Disney liked Baskett, and told his sister, Ruth Disney, that Baskett was “the best actor, I believe, to be discovered in years.” Even after the film’s release, Walt stayed in contact with Baskett.[2] Disney also campaigned for Baskett to be given an Academy Award for his performance, saying that he had worked “almost wholly without direction” and had devised the characterization of Remus himself. Thanks to Disney’s efforts, Baskett won an honorary Oscar in 1948.[2][6] After Baskett’s death, his widow wrote Disney and told him that he had been a “friend indeed and [we] certainly have been in need.”[2] > **[Song of the South](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Song_of_the_South)** > > Song of the South is a 1946 American live-action/animated musical comedy-drama film directed by Harve Foster and Wilfred Jackson, produced by Walt Disney, and released by RKO Radio Pictures. It is based on the Uncle Remus stories as adapted by Joel Chandler Harris, stars James Baskett in his final film role, and features the voices of Johnny Lee, Baskett, and Nick Stewart. The film takes place in the U.S. state of Georgia during the Reconstruction era, a period of American history after the e... They could’ve made a film about Baskett and Disney and their relationship, and have a genuine feel-good ending that is true. But it would also dredge up the controversy about the film all over again, so it probably wouldn’t be a net win. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refurbishing-the-image-of-walt-disney-harlan-ellison-and-mary-poppins/676785/116 "2014-02-18T14:15:18Z")
Hattie McDaniel won an Oscar in 1939 for _Gone With the Wind_, becoming the first African-American to win a statuette in any category. Baskett was likely the first African-American _Disney_ player to win the award. Other than that, good story, **Cal**. I actually saw most of SOTS in the theater in 1980. Purchased tickets for the Dyan Cannon _Smokey and the Bandit_ ripoff _Coast to Coast_, which sucked so bad it pulled me into the other theater, showing SOTS. I think that is the only time I have ever done that. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refurbishing-the-image-of-walt-disney-harlan-ellison-and-mary-poppins/676785/117 "2014-02-18T15:04:29Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Hattie McDaniel won an Oscar in 1939 for _Gone With the Wind_, becoming the first African-American to win a statuette in any category. Baskett was likely the first African-American _Disney_ player to win the award. > > Other than that, good story, **Cal**. > > I actually saw most of SOTS in the theater in 1980. Purchased tickets for the Dyan Cannon _Smokey and the Bandit_ ripoff _Coast to Coast_, which sucked so bad it pulled me into the other theater, showing SOTS. I think that is the only time I have ever done that. I was mislead by my reading – it said that Baskett was the first black _man_ to win an Oscar. The sources didn’t mention that a black woman had already won one. ---
**Author:** ![nevadaexile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb8c5e/32.png) [@nevadaexile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nevadaexile)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refurbishing-the-image-of-walt-disney-harlan-ellison-and-mary-poppins/676785/118 "2014-02-18T16:32:12Z")
Several things: [ol] [li] **PL Travers was an exceptionally unpleasant woman in real life** - Any film with her as a major character would have to include that fact. This is a woman who adopted an orphan but not his sibling because her astrologer told her not to and who routinely lied about her past, even to people who knew differently[/li][li] **Disney is trying to rehabilitate Wal** t - The task is so dofficult that they seem to being trying to do it by taking a circutious route like the Hank’s film. But you can see that they are attempting it. Unfortunately, he’s greedniess and anti-Semitism are really going make that a difficult task[/li][li] **Song of The South is the worst Disney film ever made** - It is so racist that it is inconceivable that there would be a time when Disney would feel comfortable again releasing it. I saw it in 1974 at the theater and as a young Black kid I was offended by the themes. As an adult I have seen it on bootlegs and I can see where it would “problematic” to release such a film to any audience in the future.[/li][li] **Harlan Ellison has unfortunately reduced his legacy to that of being a crank** - Ellison worked in entertainment industry long enough to know that what you write is rarely what gets filmed. He was (and is) handsomely paid for his his efforts (far more than greater writers than him ever were) and yet he is still whining about how reality intruded upon how he thought things should have gone.[/li][/ol] ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refurbishing-the-image-of-walt-disney-harlan-ellison-and-mary-poppins/676785/119 "2014-02-18T18:48:27Z")
> [@nevadaexile](#): > > Song of The South is the worst Disney film ever made\*\* - It is so racist that it is inconceivable that there would be a time when Disney would feel comfortable again releasing it. I saw it in 1974 at the theater and as a young Black kid I was offended by the themes. As a White kid, I am surprised. Is it offensive in the way Jews might resent the portrayal of Shylock in Shakespeare? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refurbishing-the-image-of-walt-disney-harlan-ellison-and-mary-poppins/676785/120 "2014-02-18T19:12:30Z")
> [@nevadaexile](#): > > Several things: > > [ol] > [li] **PL Travers was an exceptionally unpleasant woman in real life** - Any film with her as a major character would have to include that fact. This is a woman who adopted an orphan but not his sibling because her astrologer told her not to and who routinely lied about her past, even to people who knew differently[/li][li] **Disney is trying to rehabilitate Wal** t - The task is so dofficult that they seem to being trying to do it by taking a circutious route like the Hank’s film. But you can see that they are attempting it. Unfortunately, he’s greedniess and anti-Semitism are really going make that a difficult task[/li][li] **Song of The South is the worst Disney film ever made** - It is so racist that it is inconceivable that there would be a time when Disney would feel comfortable again releasing it. I saw it in 1974 at the theater and as a young Black kid I was offended by the themes. As an adult I have seen it on bootlegs and I can see where it would “problematic” to release such a film to any audience in the future.[/li][li] **Harlan Ellison has unfortunately reduced his legacy to that of being a crank** - Ellison worked in entertainment industry long enough to know that what you write is rarely what gets filmed. He was (and is) handsomely paid for his his efforts (far more than greater writers than him ever were) and yet he is still whining about how reality intruded upon how he thought things should have gone.[/li][/ol] It’s been released numerous times on VHS and DVD – just not in the United States. You also wouldn’t think it, but it was re-released to theaters after you saw it, in 1980 and 1986, according to Wikipedia. I could swear I last saw it theatrically in 1982 or 1983, not 1980. As for racist – well, it’s not even _close_ to the black stereotypes and minstrel shows that other studios produced in the 1940s. It Is based on black folktales as related (in often stultifying dialect) by a white guy who heard them growing up (but they are corroborated by “legitimate” folklorists 9rather than "literary’ ones like Harris), so they seem to be accurate. The story is post-Civil War, but it presents an idealized view of the South as seen by a white audience – he black folk are happy and sing, although they live in poverty, don’t seem concerned about their status, and are all concerned when Bobby Driscoll’s character gets hurt. And there’s no racial tension. It’s unrealistic and white-centered, but it’s a lot less offensive than some Warner Brothers cartoons of the period. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refurbishing-the-image-of-walt-disney-harlan-ellison-and-mary-poppins/676785.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refurbishing-the-image-of-walt-disney-harlan-ellison-and-mary-poppins/676785.md?page=7)