# Refuted memes that won't stay dead **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [July 4, 2025, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488 "2025-07-04T15:48:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2025, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/1 "2025-07-04T15:48:54Z")
I am somewhat irked that the Star Wars meme of “Stormtroopers can’t hit the broad side of a barn” was refuted _in the movie_ and by countless commentators ever since, and yet it simply will not die. Okay, so I could see people perpetuating the meme for its amusement value; obviously it harkens to the inexplicable plot armor that too many fictional protagonists have: > **[Imperial Stormtrooper Marksmanship Academy - TV Tropes](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ImperialStormtrooperMarksmanshipAcademy)** > > The good guys (the non-Red Shirt ones, at least — and sometimes even them, too) can stand in the middle of the firefight and never get hit, and can pick off any bad guy with even the most casually-aimed shot while the bad guys seem unable … But then you have people **complaining** about the meme, of how stupid it is that supposedly elite special forces can’t hit the broad side of a barn. It’s like Homer Simpson or Peter Griffin asserting something stupid, someone else refutes it– and then ten seconds later they assert it again with total amnesia of ever having heard differently. Any other examples come to mind? ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2025, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/2 "2025-07-04T16:11:16Z")
I’ve seen people say similar things about how the Stormtroopers just walk headlong into fire in the opening scene. But if you actually watch it they do as good as a job as anyone could, they use a breaching charge and flashbang on the door which temporarily blinds the rebels, then they charge in only losing 2 guys in the process and immediately take the hallway. I’d like to see you do better! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2025, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/3 "2025-07-04T16:26:04Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > I am somewhat irked that the Star Wars meme of “Stormtroopers can’t hit the broad side of a barn” was refuted _in the movie_ and by countless commentators ever since, and yet it simply will not die. People say in the movie that stormtroopers are really good marksman. But people say lots of things. What we actually see them doing is missing, a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2025, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/4 "2025-07-04T16:32:23Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > People say in the movie that stormtroopers are really good marksman. But people say lots of things. What we actually see them doing is missing, a lot. Except Princess Leia says “They let us go; it’s the only explanation for the ease of our escape”, and I don’t think she’s referring to just the TIE fighters. I mean she was trapped on a narrow ledge with Stormtroopers shooting at her and Luke and somehow they all missed. Leia isn’t stupid or naïve, she knew something was up. ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2025, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/5 "2025-07-04T16:33:28Z")
I think the stormtrooper meme is just a sub-meme of the bigger meme “good guys can’t miss and bad guys can’t hit” which is common in almost every movie or TV show with a hero or heroes. Whenever there is a gunfight, the hero/good guys always walk away unscathed while the bad guys, who often out number and outgun the good guys, are blown to bits. In Star Wars, the stormtroopers, who were the bad guys, couldn’t hit any of the heroes they were shooting at if they were standing still lined up against a wall. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2025, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/6 "2025-07-04T16:37:56Z")
The problem is that the Imperial Stormtroopers have given the trope its name, when they are one of the few examples of it being plausible why they’d miss. > [@dolphinboy](#): > > Whenever there is a gunfight, the hero/good guys always walk away unscathed while the bad guys, who often out number and outgun the good guys, are blown to bits. Yeah, this is especially egregious when the Hero is armed with a Glock and the mooks have submachine guns. ---
**Author:** ![colinfred](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colinfred/32/21338_2.png) [@colinfred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colinfred)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2025, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/7 "2025-07-04T16:38:16Z")
This exactly, I don’t know what Lumpy is referring to by it being refuted, but it certainly isn’t the movies themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2025, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/8 "2025-07-04T16:41:15Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Except Princess Leia says “They let us go; it’s the only explanation for the ease of our escape”, and I don’t think she’s referring to just the TIE fighters. I mean she was trapped on a narrow ledge with Stormtroopers shooting at her and Luke and somehow they all missed. Leia isn’t stupid or naïve, she knew something was up. I mean, maybe? But to really sell that, you need to show the stormtroopers taking, and making, really difficult shots. Like, have the Heroes show up with a retinue of, say, twenty rebel soldiers, and have a squad of five stormtroopers meticulously pick them all off one by one. Then, it would be notable that the Heroes managed to get away. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2025, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/9 "2025-07-04T16:42:42Z")
Anyway, any other examples of things that have been explained a thousand times and yet people still keep resurrecting the misunderstanding? **ETA** besides conspiracy theories, which is a whole other can of worms. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2025, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/10 "2025-07-04T16:47:22Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > But to really sell that, you need to show the stormtroopers taking, and making, really difficult shots. Or maybe during the storming of the blockade runner, instead of showing a hailstorm of suppressive fire show the rebel defenders being methodically taken out by single aimed shots. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2025, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/11 "2025-07-04T16:47:52Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I mean, maybe? But to really sell that, you need to show the stormtroopers taking, and making, really difficult shots. Like, have the Heroes show up with a retinue of, say, twenty rebel soldiers, and have a squad of five stormtroopers meticulously pick them all off one by one. Then, it would be notable that the Heroes managed to get away. But we do see that, on Endor, before the Teddy Bears mess things up. The Big Damn Heroes have lost the day, failed their assault on the shield generator, and are being held at gunpoint. And the Battle of Hoth? The rebels are on the run the whole time, and lose their whole base to the assaulting stormtroopers. Sure, their ships mostly get away, but there’s no way of spinning this as anything other than a massive loss for the rebellion. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2025, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/12 "2025-07-04T16:53:42Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > People say in the movie that stormtroopers are really good marksman. But people say lots of things. What we actually see them doing is missing, a lot. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/4ozpVkigBtM/maxresdefault.jpg "The mandalorian Stormtroopers bad aim") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ozpVkigBtM) The primary character who expresses an opinion about the accuracy of stormtroopers and incidentally a prejudicial bias regarding the marksmanship of Tusken Raiders (who he refers to by the ethnic slur “sandpeople”) is [Obi-Wan Kenobi](https://youtu.be/XgGnoZzVxs4?si=bnZu6AmJVF4FUejA) who is well establish in canon as [an inveterate liar and gaslighter.](https://youtu.be/EY1HzoTjOR0?si=emGzWKIqwE7jse5K) Refutation refuted. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2025, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/13 "2025-07-04T16:59:28Z")
This thread in turn follows the SDMB trope: “Using an example in your OP will result in everyone focusing on debating the example itself.” ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2025, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/14 "2025-07-04T17:10:34Z")
The crane kick that ends the All Valley Karate Tournament is not illegal. The only rule we’re ever given is “anything above the waist is a point.” That’s it. And guys are getting punched and kicked in the head and face the entire “You’re the Best” montage and no one ever loses a point. If you’re going to have an issue with the scoring check out the exchange before Johnny goes after Daniel’s knee. Multiple strikes by each and no points are awarded to anyone. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2025, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/15 "2025-07-04T17:23:31Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > I am somewhat irked that the Star Wars meme of “Stormtroopers can’t hit the broad side of a barn” was refuted _in the movie_ and by countless commentators ever since, and yet it simply will not die. Meh I’m not buying the revisionist take on this. The stormtroopers were incredibly crap shots. My personal fan theory is that when Obi Wan says “These blast points are too accurate for Sand People” he was in fact taking the piss. I was about to post that the “red shirts must die” meme from Star Trek has been pretty reliably refuted, but Google tells me otherwise: > This gives us 0.7 casualties per episode, or roughly one casualty every three weeks. 26 of those 55 killed men or women were wearing a red shirt or an equivalent red engineering/security uniform. Considering that the shirt color of 15 deceased crew members remains unknown (because they were killed off screen or were not wearing a standard uniform), redshirts easily make up more than 50% of all casualties. The myth that more redshirts than other colors are killed can be confirmed . > **[Ex Astris Scientia - Redshirt Deaths in TOS](https://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/database/redshirt_deaths.htm)** > > The complete statistics about all Enterprise crew members who died during TOS ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2025, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/16 "2025-07-04T17:51:39Z")
[![](https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aQojVP7_460s.jpg) ](https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aQojVP7_460s.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2025, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/17 "2025-07-04T18:01:42Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > I am somewhat irked that the Star Wars meme of “Stormtroopers can’t hit the broad side of a barn” was refuted _in the movie_ and by countless commentators ever since, and yet it simply will not die. It’s part of star wars cannon now. Bill Burr’s character made a comment about not being a Stormtrooper when someone made fun of his aim, and there is those two scout troopers that took Grogu that couldn’t hit a small cup a few feet away in several tries. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2025, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/18 "2025-07-04T18:25:20Z")
> [@Asuka](#): > > I’ve seen people say similar things about how the Stormtroopers just walk headlong into fire in the opening scene. I’ve never had a problem their tactics during the boarding, yeah like what else are they going to do? During battle of Hoth however their tactics make the British at the battle of the Somme look imaginative in comparison. In fact it’s the worst tactical understanding you’ll see in a film, other than the defenders at the battle of Hoth 🙂 And don’t get me started on the Ewoks, a bunch of poorly trained conscripts with bolt action rifles should have seen them off 😉 ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2025, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/19 "2025-07-04T18:33:21Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > I think the stormtrooper meme is just a sub-meme of the bigger meme “good guys can’t miss and bad guys can’t Yeah this is the real reason Stormtrooper marksmanship is so bad. It’s not because of the force or some other world building explanation in their back story. It’s because Star wars is at its heart a silly swashbuckling action adventure and in silly swashbuckling action adventures the bad guys shoot at the good guys a lot and miss every time. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2025, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/20 "2025-07-04T18:50:09Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > This thread in turn follows the SDMB trope: “Using an example in your OP will result in everyone focusing on debating the example itself.” Except the o.p. doesn’t cite a specific example; he lists the trope itself: > [@Lumpy](#): > > …the Star Wars meme of “Stormtroopers can’t hit the broad side of a barn”… In everything we see in the films this is largely true. Except for [mowing down small children and defenseless workers or shooting unaware Jedi in the back](https://youtu.be/xSN6BOgrSSU) the ‘vaunted’ Imperial Stormtroopers are all but helpless to hit a human-sized target with any constancy. And this is part and parcel of the larger problem that ‘The Galactic Empire’ is fundamentally inept. They make a massive planet-killing weapon with a critical vulnerability, and when informed about an analysis uncovering the weakness imminent to an attack the commander of the station brushes off the concerns as inconsequential. And then their subsequent plan is to build another, even more powerful station with an even bigger vulnerability _as a trap_ to lure in the Rebel Alliance forces and destroy them but puts the shield generator on Endor where a single relay station can disable it, again resulting in a total loss of this investment but also with the Emperor (overly confident in the success of this ‘plan’) on board, assuring a collapse of government. I think the general trope that the o.p. is obliquely trying to reference is [Plot Armor](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlotArmor), where the protagonists cannot be killed because it would break the narrative. To the extent that this trope is deployed across a wide variety of media, _Star Wars_ actually subverts it both by having Obi-Wan killed in a duel with Vader (although promising that if he is struck down “I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine,”) and the reason that the _Millennium Falcon_ escapes pursuit is because a tracking device was placed on it to lead Vader to the Rebel base. > [@DCnDC](#): > > The crane kick that ends the All Valley Karate Tournament is not illegal. The only rule we’re ever given is “anything above the waist is a point.” That’s it. And guys are getting punched and kicked in the head and face the entire “You’re the Best” montage and no one ever loses a point. No under-18 tournament is going to permit full force contact to any part of the body, much less to the head. Whether other competitors were getting away with violating rules or not, Daniel’s kick to the face was certainly illegal. The bigger question is how did this kid who has only received at most a few weeks of training and a montage culminating in crane kicking (a kick nobody would actually do in a tournament much less a fight because of how telegraphed it is) defeat a group of students who have been intensively studying martial arts for years to get to the championship, why the Okinawian Mr. Miyagi appears to be teaching a Chinese _gung fu_-style art while the Cobra Kai dojo is actually doing some kind of _Shotokan-ryū_ style (which originated in Okinawa), and exactly what cocktail of sedatives, pain-blockers, and methamphetamines did Daniel take to fight through the pain of a disabling knee injury? Stranger [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488.md?page=2)