# Refuted memes that won't stay dead **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [July 4, 2025, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488 "2025-07-04T15:48:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2025, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/201 "2025-07-10T23:16:20Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > The CSA did make each state more sovereign. As seen in the Confederate constitution explicitly prohibiting secession. No, wait, that shows the other thing. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2025, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/202 "2025-07-10T23:34:32Z")
Hey, they were so committed to freedom that they instituted the first military draft on the continent, and instituted a tax-in-kind (requiring citizens to provide the government a cut of their agricultural output (instead of worthless Confederate dollars - which the Confederate government paid their own debts with)). ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2025, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/203 "2025-07-10T23:50:38Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > > [@DrDeth](#): > > > > The CSA did make each state more sovereign. > > As seen in the Confederate constitution explicitly prohibiting secession. No, wait, that shows the other thing. One thing I noticed was that that sovereignty did intervene in battle. When Lee decided to invade the North. I thought before that some leaders of some states complained and kept many of their troops defending their states, and Lee had to invade the North with less soldiers than it was needed. But it was reported that several soldiers from the south took sovereignty more seriously: > **[Maryland campaign](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryland_campaign)** > > The Maryland campaign (or Antietam campaign) occurred September 4–20, 1862, during the American Civil War. The campaign was Confederate General Robert E. Lee's first invasion of the North. It was repulsed by the Army of the Potomac under Maj. Gen. George B. McClellan, who moved to intercept Lee and his Army of Northern Virginia and eventually attacked it near Sharpsburg, Maryland. The resulting Battle of Antietam was the bloodiest day of battle in American history. > Following his victory in the n... > Lee’s invasion was fraught with difficulties from the beginning. The Confederate Army’s numerical strength suffered due to straggling and [desertion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_States_Army#Desertion). Although he started from Chantilly with 55,000 men, within 10 days this number had diminished to 45,000.[[24]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryland_campaign#cite_note-McP100-24) Some troops refused to cross the [Potomac River](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potomac_River) because an invasion of Union territory violated their beliefs that they were fighting only to defend their states from “Northern aggression”. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2025, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/204 "2025-07-11T00:26:37Z")
One meme that came up in another thread: All MCU movies, or in some versions of the meme all superhero movies, are resolved by a big fight. I refuted it there: > [@Superman (2025)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-2025/1011886/154): > > At least two of them (Dr. Strange and Thor: Ragnarok) involved the heroes resolving the problem by losing a big violent fight. And in Guardians of the Galaxy, they literally won through the Power of Friendship, and that after the attempt at winning through a dance-off didn’t work. And Black Panther has a big fight at the climax, but it’s not what resolves the problem: That comes when T’Challa realizes that the bad guy has a point, and implements (a sane version of) his agenda. And speaking of Black Panther, he’s also the one who made peace between the factions at the end of Captain America: Civil War, where the big punch-up was the problem that needed to be resolved. Sure, they all have big fights in them somewhere: That’s part of the superhero genre. And often, the big fight is, in fact, the resolution of the problem. But it’s certainly not all of them. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2025, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/205 "2025-07-11T01:00:11Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > Hey, they were so committed to freedom that they instituted the first military draft on the continent, Louis Wigfall, Texas’s senator to the Confederate congress, defended a draft for the duration on these grounds: “no man has any individual rights, which come into conflict with the welfare of the country”. Gee, not exactly a civil libertarian. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2025, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/206 "2025-07-11T03:02:31Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > All MCU movies, or in some versions of the meme all superhero movies, are resolved by a big fight. _Avengers: Infinity War_ ends with the heroes losing (and most of the ones whose contracts were not concluding in the subsequent film being ‘snapped’), although it was obviously a cliffhanger. Although _Avengers: Endgame_ culminates in a fight, the protagonists are being ground down until Tony Stark, the character previously accused by Steve Rogers of not being willing to “make the sacrifice play, to lay down on a wire and let the other guy crawl over you,” stops “pretending to be a hero” and literally sacrifices himself to eliminate Thanos and his army, completing the character arc starting in _Iron Man_ of going from selfish narcissist to altruistic (if still flawed) defender of humanity. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2025, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/207 "2025-07-11T03:34:11Z")
> [@Superman (2025)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-2025/1011886/154): > > At least two of them (Dr. Strange and Thor: Ragnarok) involved the heroes resolving the problem by losing a big violent fight. For bonus points, Strange’s sequel doesn’t involve a problem getting resolved by dint of the antagonist being zapped into a coma — or beaten to death, or trapped in some alternate realm, or whatever — but, in the end, by dint of getting her to realize the error of her ways. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2025, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/208 "2025-07-11T12:53:53Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > One meme that came up in another thread: All MCU movies, or in some versions of the meme all superhero movies, are resolved by a big fight. In the _She-Hulk_ limited series it was going to be ended with a big fight but that was averted by the destruction of the 4th wall. ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2025, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/209 "2025-07-11T16:53:11Z")
I really wish they would do a sequel/second season of the _She-Hulk_. I don’t care how they justify it, I just want to see more of the characters. ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2025, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/210 "2025-07-13T02:27:44Z")
Which is there more of in super hero movies? A climax that involves two groups of opposing forces running directly at each other, or a climax that involves a blue (or other color) laser or light emitting from the ground and pointing straight up? ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2025, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/211 "2025-07-13T02:50:49Z")
Years ago, a clip finally surfaced of the moment on _Newlywed Game_ when a female contestant answered “Where is the strangest place you’ve ever had the urge to ‘make whoopee’?” with “In the ass.” That hasn’t stopped people from insisting that the contestant was actually a Black woman who answered “DAT BE DA BUTT, BOB!” ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2025, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/212 "2025-07-13T19:35:06Z")
> [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](#): > > Years ago, a clip finally surfaced of the moment on _Newlywed Game_ when a female contestant answered “Where is the strangest place you’ve ever had the urge to ‘make whoopee’?” with “In the ass. Here is what Snopes says- > **['Up the Butt, Bob'](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/up-the-butt-bob/)** > > Rumor: A 'Newlywed Game' contestant said the 'weirdest place she'd ever made whoopee' was 'up the butt.' ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2025, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/213 "2025-07-14T01:06:29Z")
While “the plural of anecdote is not data” is a misquote, the point remains valid. An accumulation of anecdotes is _unreliable_ data. > [@](#): > > The idea that anecdotes confer low-quality scientific evidence is well established. Evidence-based health care [providers](https://cpa.ca/docs/File/Practice/Report_of_the_EBP_Task_Force_FINAL_Board_Approved_2012.pdf) are aware that there exists a hierarchy of evidence. While personal anecdotes are often a good starting point to generate research into the validity of health claims, an increasing number of anecdotes doesn’t strengthen the quality of evidence. Many people can be wrong. Anecdotes are not enough, especially when the scientific evidence base and theoretical rationale that underpins anecdotes have been thoroughly discredited by the broader scientific literature (e.g., in the case of [Reiki](https://www.nccih.nih.gov/health/reiki) and [homeopathy](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(05)67149-8/fulltext)). > **[The Plural of Anecdote Is Misinformation](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/writing-integrity/202011/the-plural-anecdote-is-misinformation)** > > Scientific expertise matters and lives are at stake. It’s time to park egos, politics, conjecture, pseudoscience, propaganda—and anecdotes. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2025, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/214 "2025-07-14T03:06:33Z")
> [@Superman (2025)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-2025/1011886/154): > > Thor: Ragnarok Though that’s hardly an argument against the idea of MCU movies always ending in a big fight as… - The thing (or one of them) that sets Thor Ragnarok apart from the other MCU films is it consciously subverts the MCU big fight at the end trope. The fact its possible for a Marvel movie to stand out simply by veering very slightly from the “superhero fights villain, villain gets upper hand at first, but hero beats them in the end” model, says how ingrained it is in the MCU - Just because it does things a bit differently it doesn’t mean that Thor Ragnarok doesn’t end in a big fight. Just like all the MCU examples you mention(that I’ve seen, and can remember the ending, at least) it absolutely gets resolved in a big fight. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2025, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/215 "2025-07-14T13:38:55Z")
So, I list five movies off the top of my head that break the trope, and one of them doesn’t count, because it’s set apart by breaking the trope? ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2025, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/216 "2025-07-14T14:18:07Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I list five movies off the top of my head that break the trope, Except they don’t break the trope. Thor Ragnarok is absolutely resolved in a big fight. The fact the big fight is a little bit different to other MCU big fight denouements doesn’t change that. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2025, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/217 "2025-07-18T20:25:35Z")
The observation that “MCU movies always end in a big fight” is accurate, but phrasing it as a criticism is a little ridiculous. Yes, the action movie is going to end with an action scene. That’s the genre. It’s like complaining about how musicals always end with a song-and-dance number. But the _actual_ criticism in the Superman thread, which @Chronos was originally responding to, wasn’t “always ends in a fight,” but more specifically: > [@Superman (2025)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/superman-2025/1011886/105): > > The “bad guy is a threat and good guy punches them until they are knocked out” story is kind of inherently bad anyway. Which was just a general comment on what kind of stories make good stories. A second poster said that described the MCU, and Chronos correctly pointed out that it’s wrong, and that a lot of MCU films _don’t_ end with the hero successfully overpowering the bad guy, even though there’s always a big action scene in the third act. (Because, again, they’re action movies.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488.md?page=10)