# Refuted memes that won't stay dead **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [July 4, 2025, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488 "2025-07-04T15:48:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2025, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/101 "2025-07-05T22:47:18Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > That also explains why Daniel didn’t recognize his chore motions as similar to karate moves. I mean, that’s an invention of the screenwriters to make for a memorable line. You aren’t going to learn effective blocks and strikes by ‘wax on, wax off’ arm movements. Making a powerful strike is about full body motion, from grounding the feet to developing power in the core, and blocking requires perception and timing. > [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Isn’t the tournament in December, after the skeleton-costume stuff is around Halloween? He had a training montage. According to all of the underdog sports film and man-whose-family-was-murdered-and-spent-five years-in-a-coma movies that I’ve seen, all you need is a good montage sequence and you are ready to go up against the Amenian Mafia’s most brutal enforcers armed with nothing more than a corkscrew and your flinty-eyed stare. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2025, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/102 "2025-07-05T22:49:15Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > I mean, that’s an invention of the screenwriters to make for a memorable line. You aren’t going to learn effective blocks and strikes by ‘wax on, wax off’ arm movements. Making a powerful strike is about full body motion, from grounding the feet to developing power in the core, and blocking requires perception and timing. Understood. It’s kind of an old trope - there’s an ancient Greek story about a wrestler who became mightly by picking up a calf every day, until the calf was full-grown and the wrestler could lift a ton. “Show me Calf Up!” ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2025, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/103 "2025-07-05T23:46:41Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > It’s like the one time in the entire franchise that James Bond actually does his job as an intelligence agent, and successfully convinces someone working for an enemy organization to covertly change sides. [By raping her out of her lesbianism?](https://youtu.be/1pUXH1Bye88?si=cFvlVbXZ7pidn1xw) But _Goldfinger_ has bigger problems than some just some light (by 'Sixties standards) sexual assault and Bond’s utter ineptitude of being repeatedly captured, getting both of the Masterson sisters killed, failing to get a message out or escape despite the tricked out Aston Martin and all of his gadgets. (Bond does at least effectively cheat Goldfinger at golf so at least he has that much although viewers were constantly worried that the mouthy caddy was going to clue in Goldfinger about the switch instead of just keeping his damn mouth shut.) Bond is originally sent to surveil Auric Goldfinger because the latter was suspected of some gold smuggling operation, and M sends him to play golf and try to lure with with the bar of Nazi gold despite the fact that they already know who Bond is from his ridiculous stunt in Miami where he used his distinctive Scottish burr to force Goldfinger to lose at cards and stole his paid arm-candy only to be ambushed in his suite later. That Goldfinger was actually engaged in a plot to smuggle a Chinese ‘atomic device’ and explode it in the US Bullion Depository next to Ft. Knox was only uncovered incidentally by Bond even though Goldfinger was clearly planning this for months, coordinating with the Chinese (who were, it is shown, rightly concerned about his ‘other activities’), the heads of Mafia families to perform the smuggling, and whomever they bought or stole the Delta-9 nerve agent from. Felix Leighter of the CIA sees that Bond is at Goldfinger’s Kentucky compound but is so unconcerned that he and his unnamed partner decide to knock off early to get some of the Colonel’s Finger Lickin’ Goodness. So, the entire United States and British intelligence apparatus was totally unaware of a plot to smuggle and detonate a Chinese weapon on US soil, and only found out about it because Goldfinger was so inept that he attracted the attention of MI-6 for smuggling gold into Switzerland, had an odd reluctance to kill Bond and dispose of the body when he had the chance, and his desire to show off his diorama skills by monologuing to the gangsters who smuggled the weapon right before he has them all gassed. _Everybody_ in this movie is totally incompetent. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2025, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/104 "2025-07-05T23:55:26Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > And if they were able to conceive of a clever women able to use strategy to beat men even when outnumbered, they probably would have liked that too. They just couldn’t think in terms of clever women because they didn’t educate women to solve problems. What? The Greek myths are full of War Goddess Athena defeating War God Ares because Athena was better at strategy than Ares. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2025, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/105 "2025-07-06T00:05:05Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > What? The Greek myths are full of War Goddess Athena defeating War God Ares because Athena was better at strategy than Ares Also, how about Penelope cleverly foiling the suitors via the ‘shroud’ trick long enough for Odysseus to get back, as well as devising a riddle with which to tell if the guy in front of her is the husband she hadn’t seen in twenty years? ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2025, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/106 "2025-07-06T01:52:39Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > _Everybody_ in this movie is totally incompetent. You let Goldfinger off entirely too easily in your summary. He violated the First Commandment of Villainy by not **killing the hero when he had the chance**. Not only did his hubris sign his own death warrant, but it ruined one of the great Villain lines of all time. Bond: Do you expect me to talk? Goldfinger: No Mr. Bond, I expect you to die." If only he had told one of the guards to just shoot 007 right then and there… ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2025, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/107 "2025-07-06T01:54:17Z")
> [@markn\_1](#): > > I’ve owned 23 pet rats over the past 15 years and in my experience, rats do like cheese but it’s not their favorite food. Cheez Its dipped in peanut butter was mine. They make great pets but they die too soon. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2025, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/108 "2025-07-06T02:04:38Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > > [@TreacherousCretin](#): > > > > > [@Velocity](#): > > > > > > Frankenstein was the scientist, not the monster. > > > > In context of the original novel I think that point can be argued. > > Frankenstein was not the _creature_, but point taken. Thank you. Your comment clarifies the point I was attempting to make. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2025, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/109 "2025-07-06T02:13:47Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Mice liking cheese Before the invention of modern shelf-stable food products, an old-fashioned wheel of cheese was one of the few things that might remain in a pantry long enough for the mice to make serious inroads to it. The outer rind protected the cheese from spoilage until it was cut into and then the exposed faces would be cut and eaten before they had a chance to go bad. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2025, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/110 "2025-07-06T03:05:24Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > What? The Greek myths are full of War Goddess Athena defeating War God Ares because Athena was better at strategy than Ares. Yeah basically Ares was god of the brave but futile frontal attack, Athena was the goddess of the brilliant surprise flanking maneuver. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2025, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/111 "2025-07-06T03:16:13Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > You let Goldfinger off entirely too easily in your summary. He violated the First Commandment of Villainy by not **killing the hero when he had the chance**. I noted it: > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > …only found out about it because Goldfinger was so inept that he attracted the attention of MI-6 for smuggling gold into Switzerland, had an odd reluctance to kill Bond and dispose of the body when he had the chance, and his desire to show off his diorama skills by monologuing to the gangsters who smuggled the weapon right before he has them all gassed. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![zbuzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zbuzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zbuzz)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2025, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/112 "2025-07-06T04:31:57Z")
> [@Asuka](#): > > But the film does explain this, Bennet tells the General that all of his men are untrained and that him and Arnold could easily destroy the entire base without a sweat. After one of the soldiers makes a stupid boast, Bennett says the soldiers are nothing and that he and Matrix could wipe them all out in the blink of an eye. So I don’t think he says they are untrained, or at least not in that scene. Is there another scene where he says they are untrained? I mean, I’m not saying they were competent, just that as far as I can tell, their inability to shoot Arnold wasn’t something that was explained in the story. The base is in the Channel Islands for some reason, maybe the Southern California sun kept getting in their eyes. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2025, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/113 "2025-07-06T04:46:03Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > BTW, for all of the imagery of the Storm Troopers, having the high-level Imperial leaders backstab and undermine each other would be the most authentic way of making the Empire Nazi-like Andor has what you seek, especially in season 2. Some of the parallels to Nazi Germany are very deliberate but I won’t spoil it. Edit: Stormtroopers in Andor have deadly aim as well although we also get a great example of how their armor isn’t good for shit: One character _headbutts_ a Stormtrooper and knocks him out! ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2025, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/114 "2025-07-06T06:07:31Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > and are wildly blasting away while terrified of being shot, Clint Eastwood is calmly aiming and shooting. The fact he is able to shoot two people once the shoot out starts without being shot himself, is lucky but in a “you make your own luck” kind of way, not Arnie in Commando. And thematically, this fits with the whole rest of the movie. The scene where Little Bill is talking to the writer is all about this - how _fast_ isn’t as important as _keeping your cool_. ---
**Author:** ![dorvann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df705f/32.png) [@dorvann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorvann)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2025, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/115 "2025-07-06T06:57:23Z")
One urban legend/meme that won’t seem to die is when Kitty Genovese was murdered in New York City in 1964-- **37** witnesses saw or heard the attack and did absolutely nothing. This has been refuted but apparently few people are aware of this: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder\_of\_Kitty\_Genovese#Inaccuracy\_of\_original\_reports](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kitty_Genovese#Inaccuracy_of_original_reports) ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2025, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/116 "2025-07-06T07:25:12Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > What? The Greek myths are full of War Goddess Athena defeating War God Ares because Athena was better at strategy than Ares. Of course most of the surviving mythology comes from _Athens,_ so of course they talk up _their_ favored goddess. Which bring up another “refuted meme”; there _is no unified canon_ for Greek mythology. It wasn’t even consistent when it was a living religion, much less now when what we have are the surviving scraps. They didn’t have modern media or a centralized church enforcing dogma, so it varied wildly by location. Greek mythology was a collection of related stories that varied according the which city, village and storyteller was telling them. Only later were the surviving myths collected. This is why it’s so inconsistent; the stories are different according to the prejudices and preferences of the people who told them, and the later people who collected them. So for example you have badass woman-warrior Amazons, self-mutilating Amazons, and Amazons conquered and raped by “manly men” depending on the attitude of the ancient writer who recorded that particular story of them. It’s kind of as if some culture in the far future took surviving scraps of, say, everything written about Star Trek from TV canon to the novels to random fanfics, mashed them al together and tried to pretend they were a single coherent canon. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2025, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/117 "2025-07-06T10:56:50Z")
> [@Asuka](#): > > In one of the original trilogy Star Wars films you do indeed see Stormtroopers standing OUTSIDE the Death Star hanger where the vacuum of space would be. Magnetic boots. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2025, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/118 "2025-07-06T11:10:16Z")
> [@dorvann](#): > > One urban legend/meme that won’t seem to die is when Kitty Genovese was murdered in New York City in 1964-- **37** witnesses saw or heard the attack and did absolutely nothing. > > This has been refuted but apparently few people are aware of this: It’s been refuted ad infinitum; however, the psychological phenomenon that that meme illustrates, the “Bystander Effect,” is real. The legend won’t die because it so perfectly illuminates this effect. I have heard the story used to illustrate the effect by people who acknowledge that it is a false story. I’m sure many people in the room who hear that lecture go home with the story resonating in their heads, and the bit about it being untrue falling off onto the shoulder. In fact, if I were required, for some reason, to write a psychology text, I would probably illustrate the Bystander Effect with a fictional (and nameless) story that were very much like the Kitty Genovese legend. I wonder if the failure of the meme to die illustrates some other psychological effect? ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2025, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/119 "2025-07-06T11:15:50Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > Yeah basically Ares was god of the brave but futile frontal attack, Athena was the goddess of the brilliant surprise flanking maneuver. True. Athena was clever. I will “give” that part of my post. But women non-goddesses weren’t clever in mythology, to my recollection: I was really hooked on reading it in high school, and took a class on it my senior year of college, then read more when _Xena_ was in its original run, but have not read much since. All the stories of a mortal “clevering” his way out of a god’s trap (or another man’s trap, like a commoner outsmarting a king) feature men. If I am still wrong, chalk it up to faulty memory after 40 years, menopause brain, or a bias in my original sources-- I was not savvy in finding biases in my sources back then. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2025, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/120 "2025-07-06T11:23:06Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > All the stories of a mortal “clevering” his way out of a god’s trap (or another man’s trap, like a commoner outsmarting a king) feature men. You know, in that context, Achilles looks even worse. “Quick, son! Disguise yourself thusly!” “Okay, mom.” “My plan is working!” “I’m now gonna fuck up, mom!” “Well, shit. Now he’s drafted.” “I’m off to war, mom!” “I’ve secured 95% invincibility for you, son!” “I’m gonna fuck up, mom!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488.md?page=7)