# Refuted memes that won't stay dead **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [July 4, 2025, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488 "2025-07-04T15:48:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2025, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/121 "2025-07-06T11:37:18Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Where one can see Flavoraid **AND** Kool-Aid. What it seems to me is that sure: Flavor-Aid was used, but chances are that Kool-Aid was **also** used in the Mass suicide at Jonestown in November 18, 1978. I was 11 years old in 1978. At that time, “Kool-aid” was used like “Kleenex,” “Band-Aid,” and “Jacuzzi.” You could make a pitcher of “Flavor Aid,” or even powdered Orange Crush, or Kroger brand powdered drink mix, and offer someone “Kool Aid,” and they’d get what they expected. Both Kool-Aid and Flavor Aid have campaigned in the interim to make people aware of brand vs. product. Jones used both Kool-Aid and Flavor Aid, probably because he couldn’t get enough of just one or the other at one time, and he didn’t care about the future legacy of the brand name. “Drank the Kool-Aid” has a resonance that “Drank the Flavor Aid,” just does not have. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2025, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/122 "2025-07-06T11:38:46Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > “I’m gonna fuck up, mom!” 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2025, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/123 "2025-07-06T11:49:10Z")
Of course, the point is that the narrative today, is that there was no Kool-Aid then, when it was. If that video and testimonials did not exist, I agree with the point that Kool-Aid was used like Kleenex. One can say that popularity overcame manipulation or misguided reporting. But, that does not explain why the meme that is going around (with many reliable sources I may add), is that “It was (just) Flavor-Aid all along.” ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2025, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/124 "2025-07-06T11:55:54Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > But, that does not explain why the meme that is going around (with many reliable sources I may add), is that “It was (just) Flavor-Aid all along.” I’m not really sure what your point is. Would you explain further? I thought the meme was about the phrase “Drank the Kool-Aid,” and people trying to debunk that by saying “It was Flavor Aid.” You are saying the meme is “It really **was** Flavor Aid!” if that is it, I’m unclear as to what the point is. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2025, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/125 "2025-07-06T12:28:41Z")
Oy! That is why I mentioned the cat that is both dead and alive, in this case I do wonder why is that when the evidence is there, that it was not just Falvor-Aid in the Jim Jones compound, the original reporting seems that it looked at Flavor-Aid bags that were open, and preferred to go with that, while videos and some testimonials said that there was Kool-Aid **too**. It was the people, in general, who came with “Drink the Kool-Aid” in the context of a cult, while many media sources (Who are keeping the refuted or incomplete meme alive) keep saying that ‘You knucklehead ignorant people, it was just Flavor-Aid!’ It was both. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2025, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/126 "2025-07-06T12:33:18Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > It was both. Yes, it was both; but since Kool-Aid can stand for Flavor Aid, but not the other way around, I think it is correct, colloquially, to say just “Kool-Aid.” ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2025, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/127 "2025-07-06T12:42:03Z")
Me too, what I pointed out is that, currently, among many media sources, the meme goes wrong. Although to be pedantic, the meme among the general public is a bit wrong for not mentioning **both**. In any case, since Flavor-Aid has not much of a presence nowadays, I think the “Drink the Kool-Aid” meme rather than the “It was just Flavor-Aid” remains more accurate. As an aside, in news of the weird: > **[The harrowing site where 900 people died now to become a dark tourism hotspot](https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/2077960/controversial-dark-tourism-site-900-dead)** > > The site of a horrific cult massacre, which saw the deaths of over 900 people, has been controversially opened to tourists. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2025, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/128 "2025-07-06T12:50:49Z")
The meme of “Drinking the Kool-aid” has another incorrect aspect over and above what brand of drink was involved. The phrase is used to imply unthinking obedience - but the victims at Jonestown had armed guards enforcing the drinking (and as mentioned above, might have believed that this was yet another harmless dry-run, not the real thing). ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2025, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/129 "2025-07-06T12:58:35Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > All the stories of a mortal “clevering” his way out of a god’s trap (or another man’s trap, like a commoner outsmarting a king) feature men As mentioned above, Penelope outsmarting the suitors is the obvious counter example ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2025, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/130 "2025-07-06T13:10:51Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Anyway, any other examples of things that have been explained a thousand times and yet people still keep resurrecting the misunderstanding? **ETA** besides conspiracy theories, which is a whole other can of worms. France and its reputation for being “cheese eating surrender monkeys”. It’s based on France’s quick surrender to Germany in 1940 after just a few weeks of active fighting. But that quick surrender was not typical of French fighting ability. Prior to 1940, the French had a reputation for being a strong military people and they fought prolonged wars without giving up. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2025, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/131 "2025-07-06T13:17:42Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > But that quick surrender was not typical of French fighting ability. Prior to 1940, the French had a reputation for being a strong military people and they fought prolonged wars without giving up. Heck, even then, the reputation was “French Resistance,” right? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2025, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/132 "2025-07-06T13:19:53Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > Penelope outsmarting the suitors is the obvious counter example IIRC, Medea had multiple feats of cleverness. I mean, yeah, she also had feats of ‘knows magic,’ which is a different kind of braininess — but she _also_ also had feats of cleverness. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2025, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/133 "2025-07-06T13:27:53Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > According to all of the underdog sports film and man-whose-family-was-murdered-and-spent-five years-in-a-coma movies that I’ve seen, all you need is a good montage sequence and you are ready to go up against the Amenian Mafia’s most brutal enforcers armed with nothing more than a corkscrew and your flinty-eyed stare. There’s nothing quite like a good montage [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/MrRP_wiFqJ8/hqdefault.jpg "Team America: montage scene") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrRP_wiFqJ8) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2025, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/134 "2025-07-06T13:37:05Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Heck, even then, the reputation was “French Resistance,” right? That one is more questionable. During the war, you had Petain and Laval and the Vichy regime working with Germany, even if they didn’t officially join the Axis. There were probably more French people collaborating with the Germans and Italians than there were resisting them. But you had de Gaulle and the Free French who were also active. And they wanted to present the idea that France was still a major power fighting alongside Britain, America, and Russia against the Axis. So they pushed the idea that everyone in France was working in the resistance. And after 1945, it was in every French person’s best interest to say that they had always supported the side that had now won. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2025, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/135 "2025-07-06T13:40:23Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > There’s nothing quite like a good montage Or this: > **[391 Eye of the Tiger, Baby - Giant in the Playground Games](https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0391.html)** ---
**Author:** ![FrenchDunadan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frenchdunadan/32/5449_2.png) [@FrenchDunadan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FrenchDunadan)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2025, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/136 "2025-07-06T17:24:35Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > France and its reputation for being “cheese eating surrender monkeys”. > > It’s based on France’s quick surrender to Germany in 1940 after just a few weeks of active fighting. And France was of all the European countries conquered by the Nazis in 39-41 the one that resisted longer. All others were down in 2 or 3 weeks (or even day like Denmark), France needed 6 weeks to fall. And took a sizeable portion of the Luftwaffe down. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2025, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/137 "2025-07-06T18:11:31Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > There’s nothing quite like a good montage > > [https://youtu.be/MrRP\_wiFqJ8?si=5vrLKqxnT-b4GnBo](https://youtu.be/MrRP_wiFqJ8?si=5vrLKqxnT-b4GnBo) I was about to post that exact scene. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2025, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/138 "2025-07-06T18:19:22Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Which bring up another “refuted meme”; there _is no unified canon_ for Greek mythology Has anyone ever claimed that? It’s one the defining characteristics of Greco-Roman mythology. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2025, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/139 "2025-07-06T18:34:37Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > [@Chronos](#): > > > > What? The Greek myths are full of War Goddess Athena defeating War God Ares because Athena was better at strategy than Ares. > > Of course most of the surviving mythology comes from _Athens,_ so of course they talk up _their_ favored goddess. > > Which bring up another “refuted meme”; there _is no unified canon_ for Greek mythology. It wasn’t even consistent when it was a living religion, much less now when what we have are the surviving scraps. They didn’t have modern media or a centralized church enforcing dogma, so it varied wildly by location. Greek mythology was a collection of related stories that varied according the which city, village and storyteller was telling them. Only later were the surviving myths collected. > > This is why it’s so inconsistent; the stories are different according to the prejudices and preferences of the people who told them, and the later people who collected them. So for example you have badass woman-warrior Amazons, self-mutilating Amazons, and Amazons conquered and raped by “manly men” depending on the attitude of the ancient writer who recorded that particular story of them. > > It’s kind of as if some culture in the far future took surviving scraps of, say, everything written about Star Trek from TV canon to the novels to random fanfics, mashed them al together and tried to pretend they were a single coherent canon. Or the canon for Superman or Spiderman; which btw I’m convinced that comic book heroes are the modern version of ancient myths. If the ancient Greeks had only had four-color process printing… ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2025, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488/140 "2025-07-06T18:37:24Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > Has anyone ever claimed that? It’s one the defining characteristics of Greco-Roman mythology. Oh, I often run into people who pick up on a version they like of a myth and claim that’s the one true canon. Mostly among fans of fiction when the myths are being used in a story, which probably has a lot to do with it. Fans can sometimes get _very_ insistent and arbitrary about what is and isn’t canon. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/refuted-memes-that-wont-stay-dead/1020488.md?page=8)