# Regarding "heaven is for real" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 29, 2011, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regarding-heaven-is-for-real/604472 "2011-11-29T18:27:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regarding-heaven-is-for-real/604472/21 "2011-11-29T23:47:40Z")
> [@GeddyClaypoolBurton](#): > > Personally, when I found out that his father is an evangelical pastor, I thought that that was suspicious, and was even more alarmed when I saw that it was co-written with Sarah Palin’s ghost writer. You couldn’t tell, just from the title? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regarding-heaven-is-for-real/604472/22 "2011-11-30T00:37:19Z")
> [@OpalCat](#): > > My dad just gave me this book. It’s sitting on my end table right now. I haven’t started reading it and I’m kind of scared to. He gave it to me because he thought it would “reassure me” about the miscarriage I had many years ago . . . . . . Maybe ya need to be a woman to understand, but I think I would find the prospect of encountering a stillborn child of mine in Heaven more disturbing than reassuring . . . or did he mean it some other way? (In your Dad’s faith, do miscarried babies even go to Heaven? They’re not baptized.) ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regarding-heaven-is-for-real/604472/23 "2011-11-30T00:39:23Z")
There is a whole genre of evangelical-visits-heaven-and-comes-back-with-a-book-deal, of which _Heaven Is For Real_ is but one example. _The Boy Who Came Back From Heaven_ is currently #18 on the NY Times Bestseller list and _90 Minutes in Heaven_ (which I believe kicked off the whole fad) is #34 but has previously been at the top. _Heaven Is For Real_ is currently #1, which tells me that a Christian and his money for glurgy inspiration “non-fiction” are soon parted. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regarding-heaven-is-for-real/604472/24 "2011-11-30T00:41:49Z")
Thank goodness someone has saved me the trouble, and written a parody, _Hell is for Real_: [http://www.amazon.com/Hell-Real-Little-Incredible-Journey/dp/0615487181](http://www.amazon.com/Hell-Real-Little-Incredible-Journey/dp/0615487181) ---
**Author:** ![PandaBear77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@PandaBear77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PandaBear77)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regarding-heaven-is-for-real/604472/25 "2011-11-30T00:43:44Z")
I skimmed it in Wal-Mart one night. It doesn’t really matter whether the book is true or not. Suppose it’s 100% true – those who won’t believe will _still_ refuse to believe, and those who believed to begin with were believers long before this little boy hit the scene. Suppose the family completely made up everything to turn a buck - that’s really shitty and they’ll have to answer to God for that someday. Even if it’s bogus, though, all it means is they’re lying; it doesn’t magically zap Heaven out of existence. Having only skimmed the book, I don’t have an opinion on it either way. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regarding-heaven-is-for-real/604472/26 "2011-11-30T00:45:44Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > There is a whole genre of evangelical-visits-heaven-and-comes-back-with-a-book-deal, of which _Heaven Is For Real_ is but one example. I wonder if there are Islamic equivalents to this? Or Mormon? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regarding-heaven-is-for-real/604472/27 "2011-11-30T00:48:50Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > Thank goodness someone has saved me the trouble, and written a parody, _Hell is for Real_: [Amazon.com](http://www.amazon.com/Hell-Real-Little-Incredible-Journey/dp/0615487181) I appreciate the “A PARODY” stamp on the cover. Poe’s Law pre-emption. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regarding-heaven-is-for-real/604472/28 "2011-11-30T00:53:36Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I wonder if there are Islamic equivalents to this? There was a medieval Islamic tradition of writing about Mohammad’s night-journey to Paradise. Granted thats not exactly the same thing as modern religious pop-lit. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regarding-heaven-is-for-real/604472/29 "2011-11-30T00:59:03Z")
> [@Esox\_Lucius](#): > > Evidence indicates the Holy Spirt is chameleon-like, able to shift his color to accomodate any flavor his followers want.😉 Amazing how that works, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regarding-heaven-is-for-real/604472/30 "2011-11-30T01:04:34Z")
> [@PandaBear77](#): > > Even if it’s bogus, though, all it means is they’re lying; To be fair, a lot of kids have pretty active fantasy lives. Presumably children of preachers hear a lot about Jesus, I can see where one would dream about him a lot and sharing the dream, his gullible parents might get excited, encouraging him to come up with more elaborate details to keep them happy (and “The Holy Spirit is blue and shoots down power to Dad” sounds like the sort of thing a four year old would come up with). And “imaginary sibilings” are a common fantasy amongst kids of a certain age. I can see the parents being blown away seeming to know about his miscarried sister, when really he was just making up an imaginary playmate. Or they’re just lying, who knows. ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regarding-heaven-is-for-real/604472/31 "2011-11-30T01:14:04Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I wonder if there are Islamic equivalents to this? > > Or Mormon? No, no Mormon equivalent, nor will there be. There is plenty of folk traditions about near-death-experiences, but a four-year-old expounding on the details of heaven would directly challenge the hierarchy of authority. Plus, Mormons are smart and most Mormon glurgy literature is published by subsidiaries of the Mormon Church. That way they can control what is published and reap the profits from what does get through. ---
**Author:** ![akennett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee59a6/32.png) [@akennett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akennett)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regarding-heaven-is-for-real/604472/32 "2011-11-30T01:22:37Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > Plus, Mormons are smart Really? Have you seen the crap they believe? Smart is not a word I’d use to describe anyone who could subscribe to it. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regarding-heaven-is-for-real/604472/33 "2011-11-30T01:40:40Z")
> [@akennett](#): > > Really? Have you seen the crap they believe? I don’t see anything in Mormon mythology that is any more outlandish than what can be found in Christianity, Judaism, Islam or any other mainstream religion. ---
**Author:** ![typoink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@typoink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/typoink)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regarding-heaven-is-for-real/604472/34 "2011-11-30T02:29:28Z")
> [@PandaBear77](#): > > Even if it’s bogus, though, all it means is they’re lying; it doesn’t magically zap Heaven out of existence. Well, of course not. But it is yet another example of how earnest religious beliefs can be based on the statements of liars. Or the self-deluded. I’m pretty sure the authors of this book fit one of the two camps. ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regarding-heaven-is-for-real/604472/35 "2011-11-30T03:03:01Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > No, no . . . the Holy Spirit has a very definite and unusual [colour.](http://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/fiction/cs.asp) Oh, _that_ color.🙂 > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Amazing how that works, isn’t it? He’s the [del]Lizard King[/del] Holy Spirit; he can do anything. > [@Eve](#): > > Thank goodness someone has saved me the trouble, and written a parody, _Hell is for Real_: [Amazon.com](http://www.amazon.com/Hell-Real-Little-Incredible-Journey/dp/0615487181) Or the rebuttal: _Lying is Real_. ---
**Author:** ![akennett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee59a6/32.png) [@akennett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akennett)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regarding-heaven-is-for-real/604472/36 "2011-11-30T03:05:03Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I don’t see anything in Mormon mythology that is any more outlandish than what can be found in Christianity, Judaism, Islam or any other mainstream religion. And I don’t see how that detracts from my post. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regarding-heaven-is-for-real/604472/37 "2011-11-30T03:13:23Z")
> [@akennett](#): > > Really? Have you seen the crap they believe? Smart is not a word I’d use to describe anyone who could subscribe to it. Perhaps what he meant was something more along the lines of savvy. The Mormon church is really good at PR, especially internally. When I was in 8th grade, part of our religion class was reading [Embraced by the Light](http://www.amazon.com/Embraced-Light-Betty-J-Eadie/dp/0553565915). My teacher thought it was just incontrovertible proof and clucked her tongue about all the misguided fools who persist in their disbelief. I mention it only to let rogerbox know that age is no barrier to money (manna?) from heaven. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regarding-heaven-is-for-real/604472/38 "2011-11-30T03:32:55Z")
I wouldn’t believe anyone claiming heaven is real unless they pinky-swore and crossed their heart. There are _standards_ of evidence, after all. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regarding-heaven-is-for-real/604472/39 "2011-11-30T03:38:43Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The most insipid creatures of **any** mythology. How did America get so fascinated with them?! Christianity’s take on them is rather crap, but the hot women with wings and swords are cool. ---
**Author:** ![Valteron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f17d59/32.png) [@Valteron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valteron)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2011, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regarding-heaven-is-for-real/604472/40 "2011-11-30T03:45:56Z")
I often wonder if the people who believe these so-called near-death experiences are real have ever heard of something called “dreams and imagination”. It is not a difficult concept to grasp. Every one of us dreams every night. Our minds take us to strange and wonderful places that could not possibly exist on Earth. Last night I dreamed I was somehow half-human and half-bicycle, and that I could somehow move over a beautiful countryside, and then I was a flying bicycle and then I turned into a bird, and I looked down on a sunlit world made up of happy, green people who were half plant and half human. Scientists tell us that we dream every night. Dreams usually begin abouty 90 minutes after we fall asleep and in most cases are forgotten before morning. The ones we remember are usually the ones we had a few minutes before waking. I remember arguing this point in a chat room with someone who claimed that while being operated upon, he had been to Heaven and spoken to his severely retarded aunt who had died a few years earlier. Do you know how he “proved” that this was a genuine trip to Heaven? Because his retarded aunt was no longer retarded in Heaven but spoke to him normally in his vision. “How could I possibly be seeing her and hearing her like that if it was not real?” he asked. It is as if this person had no idea that there is such a thing as the power of imagination. So I asked him to try an experiment. I asked him to close his eyes and imagine he is speaking to Adolph Hitler. Imagine the face, the uniform, the swastika armband. Imagine that he pounds on the table in front of you and says “Germany will not be denied the right to its own destiny!” Can you see him? Can you hear him? But wait a second! Hitler could never have said that because he did not speak a word of English. The whole scene is just a flight of imagination. Or again, close your eyes and imagine that your cat or dog can suddenly speak and they are saying “Hi there, is it time to eat?” Can you imagine it? I know I can. Why do these people have so little belief in the power of the imagination to create scenes that never existed? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regarding-heaven-is-for-real/604472.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regarding-heaven-is-for-real/604472.md?page=3)