# Regarding the blacks marching for reparations tomorrow... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 17, 2002, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regarding-the-blacks-marching-for-reparations-tomorrow/124303 "2002-08-17T05:30:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![watch\_the\_world\_burn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/278dde/32.png) [@watch\_the\_world\_burn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watch_the_world_burn)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2002, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regarding-the-blacks-marching-for-reparations-tomorrow/124303/1 "2002-08-17T05:30:30Z")
[http://www.millionsforreparations.com/](http://www.millionsforreparations.com/) How many of them are actually former slaves? Or just lazy freeloaders looking for a quick buck? ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2002, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regarding-the-blacks-marching-for-reparations-tomorrow/124303/2 "2002-08-17T05:37:12Z")
Thanks ever so much for taking the trouble to register. ---
**Author:** ![Squish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Squish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squish)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2002, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regarding-the-blacks-marching-for-reparations-tomorrow/124303/3 "2002-08-17T05:39:05Z")
The whole problem with the “reparations for slavery” movement is that there isn’t a clear-cut case of “all blacks currently in the US are the descendents of slaves owned by whites from whom all whites in the US are descended.” Blacks owned black slaves as well. Some blacks came to the US as free blacks from former English and French holdings in the Carribean. Many. many white people in the US came here long after slavery was abolished–our ancestors had nothing to do with it, so why should we be held liable and made to pay? ---
**Author:** ![watch\_the\_world\_burn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/278dde/32.png) [@watch\_the\_world\_burn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watch_the_world_burn)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2002, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regarding-the-blacks-marching-for-reparations-tomorrow/124303/4 "2002-08-17T05:46:17Z")
Thanks for the welcome, although next time please contribute to the thread along with the other adults. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by minty green \* > \*\*Thanks ever so much for taking the trouble to register. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2002, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regarding-the-blacks-marching-for-reparations-tomorrow/124303/5 "2002-08-17T05:57:48Z")
wtwb: You probably should’ve expected that response given the OP. Said OP was lacking in, shall we say, purt near anything approaching adulthood. Anyway, people can, and do, sue on behalf of the estates of those who have passed away. One side of this issue sees it in that light. One side of this issue sees it in the light of “Hey, we did everything the Feds said and Reconstruction was declared a done deal.” Yet another side sees that, if you go back far enough, plenty of Whites are also descendants of slaves. There was, after all, that whole bit with the Roman Empire. In other words: It’s more complex than you want to pretend it is. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2002, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regarding-the-blacks-marching-for-reparations-tomorrow/124303/6 "2002-08-17T06:02:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by watch the world burn \* > \*\*[http://www.millionsforreparations.com/](http://www.millionsforreparations.com/) > > How many of them are actually former slaves? Or just lazy freeloaders looking for a quick buck? \*\* Welcome to the board, **wtwb**. It goes without saying that none of them are former slaves, since the US ended slavery 130 years ago. (Conceivably the group might include former slaves from some other country, such as Sudan.) Did you accidentally leave out the words, “decendents of”? Or are you looking to take away my crown as most outspoken conservative on this Board? I hope it’s the latter; you are quite welcome to it! ---
**Author:** ![watch\_the\_world\_burn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/278dde/32.png) [@watch\_the\_world\_burn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watch_the_world_burn)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2002, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regarding-the-blacks-marching-for-reparations-tomorrow/124303/7 "2002-08-17T06:04:01Z")
First off I don’t know how this turned into an against whites issue. They are looking for reparations from the American Government not from all white people. Last time I checked anyone, no matter what race, can be an American citizen. So it concerns a Chinese-American just as much as it concerns a white one. The sparks will fly if they get one cent. Which I doubt they will. Sorry for not including a lot of “In my opinion” and “not that there’s anything wrong with that” in my post. I like to be clear and concise. No need to beat around the bush. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\*wtwb: > > You probably should’ve expected that response given the OP. Said OP was lacking in, shall we say, purt near anything approaching adulthood. > > Anyway, people can, and do, sue on behalf of the estates of those who have passed away. One side of this issue sees it in that light. One side of this issue sees it in the light of “Hey, we did everything the Feds said and Reconstruction was declared a done deal.” Yet another side sees that, if you go back far enough, plenty of Whites are also descendants of slaves. There was, after all, that whole bit with the Roman Empire. > > In other words: It’s more complex than you want to pretend it is. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2002, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regarding-the-blacks-marching-for-reparations-tomorrow/124303/8 "2002-08-18T03:56:59Z")
Wow, I wasn’t going to hit this issue but this quote got me: > [@](#): > > In return, we have endured the terrorism of the Ku Klux Klan, systematic lynchings, chain gangs, plantation prisons, police torture and murder, poverty, miseducation, inadequate housing, unemployment, welfare, WEP programs, ACS child kidnapings, voter discrimination, crack, heroin, Rockefeller drug laws, political prisoners, and the assassination of our leaders. While I agree that African Americans were treated badly after the Civil War and have only come to be treated with the respect any human deserves in the last 40 or 50 years I find it hard to believe that slavery caused anyone in this day and age to become a heroin or crack addict. Slee ---
**Author:** ![interface2x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@interface2x](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/interface2x)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2002, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regarding-the-blacks-marching-for-reparations-tomorrow/124303/9 "2002-08-18T04:26:18Z")
I think the general train of thought would be along these lines: Slavery led to prejudice. Prejudice led to economic and social oppression. Oppression led to poverty and crime. Poverty and crime led to sales and usage of illegal narcotics (i.e. heroin and crack), intended to either raise themselves out of poverty or to mentally escape the drudgery of living in the ghetto. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2002, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regarding-the-blacks-marching-for-reparations-tomorrow/124303/10 "2002-08-18T04:30:28Z")
Er, would somebody please 'splain to me how the “Rockefeller Drug Laws” are “racist”, as this website says? [http://www.droptherock.org/](http://www.droptherock.org/) > [@](#): > > Enacted in 1973 when Nelson Rockefeller was governor, the Rockefeller Drug Laws require harsh prison terms for the possession or sale of relatively small amounts of drugs. The harshest provision of this statute mandates that a judge impose a prison term of no less than 15 years to life for anyone convicted of selling 2 ounces or possessing 4 ounces of a narcotic substance. The penalties apply without regard to the circumstances of the offense or the individual’s character or background, making it irrelevant whether the person is a first-time or repeat offender. > > New York’s drug laws are racist, ineffective, wasteful and unjust. It is long past time for their repeal. And–what’s an “ACS child kidnaping”? Are they referring to New York State’s child welfare department removing abused and neglected children from bad environments? If so, how is that “racist”? Or is it something else? And as for “WEP programs”, I have no clue, although Google, as usual, is marvelously helpful. We played “20 Questions” for a while. Is it…the World Education Program? The Windows Embedded Partner Extranet Program? The Women in Engineering Program at Penn State? The Women’s Empowerment Program in Nepal? Page 2…Ah-ha! It must be the New York City “Work Experience Program”, a.k.a. “workfare”. [http://www.itvs.org/pressroom/pressRelease.htm?pressId=124](http://www.itvs.org/pressroom/pressRelease.htm?pressId=124) So, somebody please 'plain to me how workfare is racist? I have no doubts that probably the NYC version doesn’t work very well, but how is that “racist” or “discriminatory”? ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2002, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regarding-the-blacks-marching-for-reparations-tomorrow/124303/11 "2002-08-18T04:37:11Z")
> [@](#): > > While I agree that African Americans were treated badly after the Civil War and have only come to be treated with the respect any human deserves in the last 40 or 50 years I find it hard to believe that slavery caused anyone in this day and age to become a heroin or crack addict. Yeah. It sounds about as likely as the genocidal policies of the U.S. government in the 18th and 19th centuries creating Native Americans alcoholics in this day and age. Or the bizarre, repressive and murderous South African Apartheid regime creating an illicit drug trade or alcohol abuse among blacks in the townships. Or how Brazil’s population of homeless and criminal young people, who were sometimes hunted down and shot to death in the streets as late as the 1980s, often smoked marijuana, did heroin or sniffed glue. Gee, there couldn’t possibly be a correlation. Ah, but there IS. Poverty + ethnic oppression + daily stress + personal injustices + opportunities to get high = temporary escape through illicit drug use Granted, there is the issue of “personal responsiblity” to contend with, but these people didn’t create the conditions they lived in. They just find ways to endure it. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2002, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regarding-the-blacks-marching-for-reparations-tomorrow/124303/12 "2002-08-18T04:41:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by watch the world burn \* > \*\*[http://www.millionsforreparations.com/](http://www.millionsforreparations.com/) > > How many of them are actually former slaves? Or just lazy freeloaders looking for a quick buck? \*\* Wow, two whole choices. Which choice is black and which choice is white? Do you think that maybe, just maybe, in a group that large that there might be a multitude of motivations for their actions? I’m pretty sure a racist would be just as incensed about this as you are. Does that mean that everyone who shares your stance is racist? You should probably trade in that size 22 Kolinsky for a size 3/0. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2002, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regarding-the-blacks-marching-for-reparations-tomorrow/124303/13 "2002-08-18T04:46:11Z")
And “assassination of our leaders”, plural? Martin Luther King, Jr., and–who else? And, er, I’m afraid to ask–“political prisoners”? ---
**Author:** ![t-keela](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a3d4f5/32.png) [@t-keela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-keela)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2002, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regarding-the-blacks-marching-for-reparations-tomorrow/124303/14 "2002-08-18T04:59:50Z")
I assume Malcolm is the 2nd reference…and it’s still bullshit! Why not just cut everyone in the US a check(at least the US) because it’s going to go a lot farther than that. Remember the relatives who had family members taken from their homeland as well. Like I said, just write everyone a check for a cool million and be done with it. Naturally, the price of a loaf of bread might go up! A million bucks to everyone, that’s about what a new Cadillac would cost then! ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2002, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regarding-the-blacks-marching-for-reparations-tomorrow/124303/15 "2002-08-18T05:00:22Z")
Duck Duck Goose: You provided the link. Didn’t you read it? The site describes the WEP as a program that will “end welfare as we know it,” yet it “forces participants to work at city jobs for one fourth the union wage and makes it difficult to pursue an education.” What the fu – ONE FOURTH WAGES!!! MAKES IT DIFFICULT TO BECOME BETTER EDUCATED??? Wait – there’s more. “A DAY’S WORK, A DAY’S PAY follows three welfare recipients (Juan Galan, Jackie Marte and José Nicolau) from 1997 to 2000 as Fed up with the ineffectiveness of the WEP program, Juan, Jackie and José decide to fight back, demanding a just and effective program that will actually help them and their peers move off of welfare and into sustainable employment. Working with two community organizations… they fight for living wage jobs, workplace protections, the right to unionize and access to education.” “As they fight for a grievance procedure and the passage of a jobs creation bill, they face numerous obstacles — laws that classify them as non-workers, a mayor and a general public that is unsympathetic to their plight, and a national anti-welfare sentiment that fuels the stigmatization of poor people. However, through solidarity with hundreds of other welfare recipients, unions and community organizations and through faith and perseverance, they slowly succeed in challenging the inequities of the WEP program.” Sounds pretty goddamn racist to me. (I’m glad I aine Puerto Rican. Damn.) Watch. Someone, someday, will quote me out of context and try to use my words against me. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2002, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regarding-the-blacks-marching-for-reparations-tomorrow/124303/16 "2002-08-18T05:01:10Z")
Duck Duck Goose, The Rockefeller Drug Laws are considered racist mainly because they prescribe higher penalties for crack cocaine than they do for the powder form. As the crack form is more widely used by blacks, while the powdered form is the drug of choice for many whites, some consider the laws racist. While I do find that disturbing, I’m more interested in their repeal due to their draconian nature. The judge is given little leeway making determinations based on individual circumstances. To give you an idea of why this is bad, it’s actually against the law to be in a car when drugs are found in the open in the car. Buddy has a reefer in the ashtray? You might end up in jail. Here is the text of that law: > [@](#): > > 220.25 Criminal possession of a controlled substance; presumption. > > 1. The presence of a controlled substance in an automobile, other than > a public omnibus, is presumptive evidence of knowing possession thereof > by each and every person in the automobile at the time such controlled > substance was found; except that such presumption does not apply (a) to > a duly licensed operator of an automobile who is at the time operating > it for hire in the lawful and proper pursuit of his trade, or (b) to any > person in the automobile if one of them, having obtained the controlled > substance and not being under duress, is authorized to possess it and > such controlled substance is in the same container as when he received > possession thereof, or © when the controlled substance is concealed > upon the person of one of the occupants. > 2. The presence of a narcotic drug, narcotic preparation, marihuana or > phencyclidine in open view in a room, other than a public place, under > circumstances evincing an intent to unlawfully mix, compound, package or > otherwise prepare for sale such controlled substance is presumptive > evidence of knowing possession thereof by each and every person in close > proximity to such controlled substance at the time such controlled > substance was found; except that such presumption does not apply to any > such persons if (a) one of them, having obtained such controlled > substance and not being under duress, is authorized to possess it and > such controlled substance is in the same container as when he received > possession thereof, or (b) one of them has such controlled substance > upon his person. ---
**Author:** ![grendel72](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/91b2a8/32.png) [@grendel72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grendel72)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2002, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regarding-the-blacks-marching-for-reparations-tomorrow/124303/17 "2002-08-18T05:09:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose \* > **And “assassination of our leaders”, plural? Martin Luther King, Jr., and–who else?** Ummm… Medgar Evars wasn’t assassinated in your world? Malcolm X wasn’t assassinated? ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2002, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regarding-the-blacks-marching-for-reparations-tomorrow/124303/18 "2002-08-18T05:13:11Z")
DMC: thank you for the succinct and imminently readable explanation of the Rockefeller Drug Laws. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2002, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regarding-the-blacks-marching-for-reparations-tomorrow/124303/19 "2002-08-18T05:14:33Z")
—And “assassination of our leaders”, plural? Martin Luther King, Jr., and–who else?— Oh come on. Even if the point is really not relevant to reparations (surely not every taxpayer in the U.S. supported or even endorsed the actions of people like James Earl Ray), you should at least know history a little better than to only know of King (who was killed long after he had made his major contributions, and was currently rather unpopular for his anti-war and his feelings that the civil-rights issue was dead, and that anti-poverty was hte next big fight), when there were several important Civil Rights figures who were murdered. Malcom X is not the right answer. Try again. Perhaps you actually CAN learn history by watching trash Tv like the TNT rerun of the week… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2002, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regarding-the-blacks-marching-for-reparations-tomorrow/124303/20 "2002-08-18T05:26:57Z")
Doh: someone beat me to the medgar evers punch. 🙂 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regarding-the-blacks-marching-for-reparations-tomorrow/124303.md?page=2)