# Reggie White is Not a Great Man - Shame on the Packers and the NFL **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 18, 2005, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reggie-white-is-not-a-great-man-shame-on-the-packers-and-the-nfl/322271 "2005-09-18T22:54:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reggie-white-is-not-a-great-man-shame-on-the-packers-and-the-nfl/322271/21 "2005-09-19T01:24:25Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > he spent his life playing football and did some of the same charity work that many other NFL players do. He wasn’t an entirely evil man but he was far from a “great” one. It’s hard to get around the fact that he was a homophobe, a racist and a religious bigot. That’s a different (and better) assessment than saying he couldn’t be a good man. We don’t know who, if anyone, was harmed by the stupid things he said and thought. It’s entirely possible that that’s outweighed by the charity work he did, even if it was standard for a football player. ---
**Author:** ![Go\_Blue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ce73a5/32.png) [@Go\_Blue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_Blue)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reggie-white-is-not-a-great-man-shame-on-the-packers-and-the-nfl/322271/22 "2005-09-19T01:27:53Z")
White never took back his comments. In fact one of the quotes I posted was a response to people calling him on his hateful comments. > [@](#): > > People who call Reggie White a bigot and homophobic, beware, because you’re calling God himself a bigot and homophobic. > [@](#): > > Is it possible for someone to hold the views he did and be a good man? A great man? A man who holds these views could be a good man or a great man. But when a man has access to all the information he have on race and sexual orientation and then goes out and spreads hateful information when if he would just take the time to examine his positions he would see that he was clearly full of shit - then no he is not a great man. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reggie-white-is-not-a-great-man-shame-on-the-packers-and-the-nfl/322271/23 "2005-09-19T01:39:52Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > That’s a different (and better) assessment than saying he couldn’t be a good man. We don’t know who, if anyone, was harmed by the stupid things he said and thought. It’s entirely possible that that’s outweighed by the charity work he did, even if it was standard for a football player. Well, iit was only the “great” part that I was objecting to. I do think he showed much capacity for kindness and generosity and I don’t think he was malicious or hateful so much as he was an idiot. I don’t think that he can be excused for his ignorance considering the wealth of information and resources that were available to him. He didn’t WANT to know the facts. He could also be incredibly grandiose. He thought God talked to him. God was always healing his injuries or telling him to play for the Panthers. He couldn’t take a shit without claiming it was a mission from God. What an ass. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reggie-white-is-not-a-great-man-shame-on-the-packers-and-the-nfl/322271/24 "2005-09-19T02:45:53Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > He couldn’t take a shit without claiming it was a mission from God. What an ass. I would say so, if his ass was hooked directly up to God! Gay Wisconsinite checking in, and as much as I’d like to muster up outrage over the Packers’ retiring White’s number, I just can’t. I don’t think the retirement is an endorsement of his racially suspect or anti-gay views, but his talent as a football player and his role in helping the Packers become a power in the NFL again. He was just another meathead athlete who thought that his being a public figure made him an authority on The Way Things Ought To Be. His dumbass comments were repudiated by those who didn’t share his ignorance and now he’s dead. No one I know spends any time thinking about him and on those rare occasions he crosses my mind I just remember the irony of how Mister Wages of Sin is Death died at age 43. > [@duffer](#): > > Unless you come with a rant about Farrakhan, you’re drivel is pointless. Do you never tire of coming off like a complete jackass? It’s pointless to point out the racism and homo-hatred of Reggie White unless one also points out the racism and homo-hatred of Louis Farrakhan? I wasn’t aware that when upbraiding someone for being an ignorant fool it was required to list off all the other ignorant fools in the world at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![Go\_Blue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ce73a5/32.png) [@Go\_Blue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_Blue)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reggie-white-is-not-a-great-man-shame-on-the-packers-and-the-nfl/322271/25 "2005-09-19T03:12:31Z")
Farrakhan is a racist and homophobe, too. Happy now, Fucker? Oh shit. I forgot to include Hitler. And Jack Chick. And the guy down the street, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reggie-white-is-not-a-great-man-shame-on-the-packers-and-the-nfl/322271/26 "2005-09-19T03:18:45Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > Reverend White has done more good for people than you ever will. Like what? All I know about the guy was that he was good at football (which is pretty useless, AFAIC) and that he was an outspoken bigot. What else did he have going for him? What did he do that set him apart from all the other millionaire sports celebrities out there, aside from hating on people that never did him no harm? ---
**Author:** ![Go\_Blue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ce73a5/32.png) [@Go\_Blue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_Blue)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reggie-white-is-not-a-great-man-shame-on-the-packers-and-the-nfl/322271/27 "2005-09-19T03:22:15Z")
He did do a lot of charity work. Way beyond that of the average player. But he also used his charity work to spread his message of hate. I just don’t like how today we hear about his good things (charity) but nothing about what a racist homophobe he was. It was the same thing when he died. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reggie-white-is-not-a-great-man-shame-on-the-packers-and-the-nfl/322271/28 "2005-09-19T03:51:41Z")
**Miller** , he’s done more good than harm. I trust you don’t expect me to do the legwork. You know how to find out what he did in life. **Otto** , I’m really getting tired of this shit. You should know by now that I’m not some homophobe racist bigoted kitten-killer. Regardless of the fact I’m a straight white married Catholic that voted for Bush. Twice. Says something about your bigoted stereotypes. Relax, I’ve included you on the national do-not-bug list. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reggie-white-is-not-a-great-man-shame-on-the-packers-and-the-nfl/322271/29 "2005-09-19T04:08:32Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > **Miller** , he’s done more good than harm. I trust you don’t expect me to do the legwork. You know how to find out what he did in life. Actually, yeah, I do expect you to do the legwork. Confronted with some pretty vile, bigotted comments by the “Reverend” White, you claim he’s “done more good than harm.” Prove it. Show me why I should show Reggie White any more respect in death than he showed people like me in his life. I mean, you seem to have a pretty healthy dislike of Louis Farrakhan. If I told you that he’d “done more good than harm,” but didn’t offer any examples of that good, would you alter your impression of Farrakhan just because I said you should? Especially when you know there are enough philosophical differences between us to raise some serious questions about what I would consider “good” in the first place? That’s just a hypothetical, by the way. To my knowledge, Louis Farrakhan has never done a damned bit of good for anybody. But then, to my knowledge, neither has Reggie White. Any who cares is welcome to show me why I’m wrong about either man. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reggie-white-is-not-a-great-man-shame-on-the-packers-and-the-nfl/322271/30 "2005-09-19T04:39:44Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > **Otto** , I’m really getting tired of this shit. Then you should stop popping off with this shit. > [@duffer](#): > > You should know by now that I’m not some homophobe racist bigoted kitten-killer. Did I say you were? No. I said you were a fucking moron because of your dumbass non-sequitor about the OP’s not including a slam on Farrakhan. > [@duffer](#): > > Says something about your bigoted stereotypes. In all seriousness, **duffer** , are you on some sort of psycho-active medication? ---
**Author:** ![Hung\_Mung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@Hung\_Mung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hung_Mung)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reggie-white-is-not-a-great-man-shame-on-the-packers-and-the-nfl/322271/31 "2005-09-19T05:04:41Z")
White was an ordained minister for his entire adult life. I think he said a lot of those things because that was what was indoctrinated in him through religion the macho culture of athletics. I’m sure he believed it all too. There’s no excuse for saying hateful things when one’s pulpit is as large as White’s was. It is quite comparable to Farrakhan and Falwell, et al. (His anti-gay remarks came in a speech to the Wisconsin legislature in '98). Interestingly, he changed his mind on some of those old ideas after a person to whom he donated money for rebuilding a church took that money and ran (and later got busted with a shit-load of coke). He started learning Hebrew and travelled to Israel to study. He stopped preaching because he felt people weren’t there to listen, but to see him. I found one ESPN columnist’s obit/editorial that claimed he regretted those statements. So, apparently he was shaken from those robotic beliefs and died before he could complete his personal hajj. Reggie did a lot of good things and he said some hateful things. Honestly, it balances out. Maybe he wasn’t a great guy all the time but he raised his family and spread his wealth. He proved that he was open to changing his ideas and beliefs. He was also a fucking terror on the gridiron and definitely deserves to have his number retired (although I think it should’ve been retired by the Eagles…neither here nor there). So, Go Blue, maybe you could us all a favor and save the vitriol and show some restraint yourself. Maybe you could be the better man/woman here and let it go. Or, better yet, go to GD and start a debate over whether White’s accomplishments outshine his mistakes and thus merit the honor bestowed upon him. Here you just sound like a whiny feeb. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reggie-white-is-not-a-great-man-shame-on-the-packers-and-the-nfl/322271/32 "2005-09-19T05:40:10Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Actually, yeah, I do expect you to do the legwork… OK. I found a pretty liberal site. It’s what you were hoping for since it gets into how evil he is. But it also mentions that he may have helped a few people out. [EVIL!](http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1228-34.htm). I’m sure you can parse the evilness from that. I’d like to point out this: > [@](#): > > White’s premature death has also unleashed a torrent of testimonials about his off-field work. He set up countless charities and got his hands dirty in the lives of gang members, drug addicts, and convicts. As former NFL great Cris Carter said, “Reggie made a far greater impact off the field than he did on it.” Sounds like a bad guy. But… We can’t forget the Bush slam that had nothing to do with White playing in Green Bay (the OP title) > [@](#): > > Reggie White’s ideas were rooted in the best and worst of his deep evangelical Christian faith. There is an expression that “the religion of the slave and the religion of the slave owner” are two entirely separate belief systems. **One set of beliefs can forge a moral giant like Martin Luther King and the other can sustain the cruel small-mindedness of George W. Bush**. Reggie White embodied and voiced both the religion of the slave and slave owner. He risked his life and career at the service of both resistance and then reaction. Don’t fret, you’re not the first to look for shit. And to all you other’s, free reign on citing how he’s so bad. Don’t ask me to defend him if you just want to derifde him. You cite your hate. I’ll love the man. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reggie-white-is-not-a-great-man-shame-on-the-packers-and-the-nfl/322271/33 "2005-09-19T05:43:49Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > In all seriousness, **duffer** , are you on some sort of psycho-active medication? We’re still working on the right dosage. Bear with me. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reggie-white-is-not-a-great-man-shame-on-the-packers-and-the-nfl/322271/34 "2005-09-19T05:45:27Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > We can’t forget the Bush slam that had nothing to do with White playing in Green Bay (the OP title) Wha? You were the first one to mention Bush in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reggie-white-is-not-a-great-man-shame-on-the-packers-and-the-nfl/322271/35 "2005-09-19T05:58:17Z")
I never paid much attention to his off-the-field activities, but on the field, I seem to always have remembered him as somewhat of a “cheap-shot” type of defensive guy. At least when he was in Philadelphia. I remember watching a few games and being disgusted by a number of after-the-whistle-was-blown hits and the like. Although it was a long time ago, so I may have mixed him up with somebody else playing for the Eagles. After all, this was when they were coached by Buddy Ryan, who is, in fact, the devil – and who is commonly associated with coaching his players to take cheap shots and try to knock opposing QBs out of the game with injuries. The “Bounty Bowl” games and such. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reggie-white-is-not-a-great-man-shame-on-the-packers-and-the-nfl/322271/36 "2005-09-19T06:05:09Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Wha? You were the first one to mention Bush in this thread. May have read a little too much into it. If so, apologies all around. At least Favre doesn’t suck as much as Culpuppy over the last two weeks. (Throw me a bone, people!) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reggie-white-is-not-a-great-man-shame-on-the-packers-and-the-nfl/322271/37 "2005-09-19T06:07:15Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > OK. I found a pretty liberal site. It’s what you were hoping for since it gets into how evil he is. But it also mentions that he may have helped a few people out. [EVIL!](http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1228-34.htm). I’m sure you can parse the evilness from that. I’d like to point out this: All I’ve done in this thread is ask for information, and admit to my own very limited understanding of what he did. I’m sorry that you can’t stand the idea of someone pointing out the flaws in someone you idolize, but the only effect that this guy ever had on my life was uniformly negative: he promoted hatred against gays, and publically insulted them again and again. So, yeah, I’m not a huge fan, and I’m not going to be one any time real soon. Turns out, yeah, he did do a lot more good than bad in his life. That’s great, I respect him for that. But he hated people like me, however much he tried to disguise it with Christian platitudes. I’m not a big enough man to shrug that off. And let’s not kid anyone: neither are you. Although if it’s true that he recanted his statements on gays before he died, all bets are off. I’d love for that to be true, and it would make his untimely death that much more tragic, as it robbed him of the oportunity to mend some of the damage he’d done in his life. > [@](#): > > We can’t forget the Bush slam that had nothing to do with White playing in Green Bay (the OP title) The OP to this thread is “Reggie White is Not a Great Man - Shame on the Packers and the NFL.” Where is the Bush slam in that thread title? Or anywhere else in this thread, aside from the cite you posted? > [@](#): > > Don’t fret, you’re not the first to look for shit. Look for it? I didn’t look for _anything_, good or bad. I don’t follow sports. I do follow gay rights. Guess which context I heard the most about Reggie White in? All I did in this thread was ask for _more information._ Don’t crawl up my ass because your other-wise admirable hero also happened to be a vocal bigot. > [@](#): > > And to all you other’s, free reign on citing how he’s so bad. Don’t ask me to defend him if you just want to deride him. You cite your hate. I’ll love the man. Are there any people you admire whom you can admit are less than perfect? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reggie-white-is-not-a-great-man-shame-on-the-packers-and-the-nfl/322271/38 "2005-09-19T06:09:20Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > At least Favre doesn’t suck as much as Culpuppy over the last two weeks. (Throw me a bone, people!) More like “throw me an INT…” 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reggie-white-is-not-a-great-man-shame-on-the-packers-and-the-nfl/322271/39 "2005-09-19T06:28:07Z")
Oh, and for the record, Reggie White could have been the evilest piece of shit off the field, and it shouldn’t have any effect on the recognition of his achievments _on_ the field. I don’t think the NFL or the Packers should ashamed of celebrating those achivements, nor should they be required to act as a mouthpiece for gay rights because the man they’re honoring happened to be opposed to them. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reggie-white-is-not-a-great-man-shame-on-the-packers-and-the-nfl/322271/40 "2005-09-19T06:38:48Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > All I’ve done in this thread is ask for information, and admit to my own very limited understanding of what he did. I can litter the thread with links. I know you can find this stuff on your own, but if you want me to do the work I can. Keep in mind, some you may not like. We haven’t had a “perfect” guy to quote for about 2000 years. But if you want someone that has spent a huge portion of his life helping those that most of us have forgotten about, I’ll attempt to oblige. > [@Reggie White](#): > > Reggie White’s ideas were rooted in the best and worst of his deep evangelical Christian faith. There is an expression that “the religion of the slave and the religion of the slave owner” are two entirely separate belief systems. One set of beliefs can forge a moral giant like Martin Luther King and the other can sustain the cruel small-mindedness of George W. Bush. Reggie White embodied and voiced both the religion of the slave and slave owner. He risked his life and career at the service of both resistance and then reaction. From this [http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1228-34.htm](http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1228-34.htm)]liberal-friendly [/quote] site. Notice the prejudice? Neither side is innocent here. [Honest](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6756065/) You may not like his beleifs, but he brought it. > [@](#): > > What sets Reggie White the person apart is that he came to understand that truth must be discovered for one’s self, not accepted in a pretty package, no matter how prettily wrapped that package is. At the end of his too brief life, he was probably living more than he ever had, even when he was the most feared force in football. God forbid a man is allowed to state an opinion. Even if you don’t agree with it, isn’t the First Amendment still valid? And of course, proof positive he’s [Satan](http://www.reggiewhitefoundation.com/foundation.htm) > [@](#): > > The Reggie White Foundation’s sole purpose is helping the underprivileged. Although our foundation is primarily focused on the needs of underprivileged children, we also work with many other groups including unwed mothers, prison inmates, and other at risk individuals. Good thing the son of a bitch is dead, :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reggie-white-is-not-a-great-man-shame-on-the-packers-and-the-nfl/322271.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reggie-white-is-not-a-great-man-shame-on-the-packers-and-the-nfl/322271.md?page=3)