# Regular looking women who can beat up much larger men... **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 19, 2013, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regular-looking-women-who-can-beat-up-much-larger-men/656096 "2013-04-19T01:46:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regular-looking-women-who-can-beat-up-much-larger-men/656096/61 "2013-04-21T04:42:28Z")
I’m also talking specifically about small women. I know several athletic women over six feet tall who lift weights and are very strong, they would stand a much better chance, but they obviously are not your average female of our species. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regular-looking-women-who-can-beat-up-much-larger-men/656096/62 "2013-04-21T04:47:10Z")
> [@Mississippienne](#): > > **Martin Hyde** , there are many, many confirmed cases of people (yes, even pathetic, weak women! It’s true!) subduing attackers with martial arts or sometimes just plain ol’ rage. I always bring up the famous streetfight that was caught on tape between Rashad Bobino and Roger Huerta. As always, I would like to state that I am very aware that Huerta is not a girl, thank you very much whatever neckbeard out there is about to hit ‘submit reply’ to correct me. But that ‘matchup’ is pretty much exactly what people always debate in these threads – a much bigger, heavier opponent against a smaller, but skilled opponent. Rashad Bobino is a Texas Longhorns linebacker who is 5’11 and weighs 250 lbs. Roger Huerta is several inches shorter and only about 170 lbs, and a respectable but hardly legendary MMA fighter. And Huerta laid out Bobino so fucking fast that I bet Bobino starts twitching and has flashbacks anytime he sees a tiny Mexican. If it weren’t on tape half the people in this thread would be shaking their heads, saying there was no way Huerta could win, Bobino would take it 9/10, etc. Well, 9/10, 1/10, I doubt Bobino could calculate his odds of winning after Huerta finished stomping his face into the pavement about 12 seconds into the fight. And unlike Bobino, who sneak-attacked a girl from behind, Huerta was nice enough to face his opponent like a man. > > Now, before that same hypothetical neckbeard starts trying to build any strawman arguments, I am in no way suggesting that A) any smaller dude could take a guy like Bobino, that B) anyone with MMA training could take a linebacker (Huerta is a pro, even if not top-tier) or that C) that a girl who takes Judo at the Y could fight off any attacker. But I guarantee you that there’s women out there who could take a guy like Bobino, even some who could take bigger guys, any day of the week, and twice on Sunday. It may not be many women. Hell, it may be in the double, or only single, digits. Just like there are tiny Mexican MMA fighters who can take a linebacker almost twice their body weight, no problemo. No one has said no woman, or no small person, can defeat a larger male. There are many small men who would beat me beyond belief, and I’m not even talking about small guys like Floyd Mayweather or Manny Pacquiao but just any similarly sized but strong/tough/skilled male. But a small man around 145 lbs is a vastly more formidable opponent than your average 145 lb female or even an athletic and trained 145 lb female. But yes, a small number of females can defeat larger men, but it is very rare and typically even an untrained, large and violent male will defeat most females even many who are somewhat trained. Very very few women are expert fighters, that’s a small subset of women trained in fighting. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regular-looking-women-who-can-beat-up-much-larger-men/656096/63 "2013-04-21T04:50:18Z")
> [@Mississippienne](#): > > I would like to state that I am very aware that Huerta is not a girl, thank you very much whatever neckbeard out there is about to hit ‘submit reply’ to correct me. But that ‘matchup’ is pretty much exactly what people always debate in these threads No, it isn’t. I just looked at the video, and Huerta looks like he is smuggling bowling balls underneath his shirt. He can probably bench 300. You were talking about a “petite” woman, which I take to mean 110 pounds or so. No comparison. Nobody in the whole wide world, unless he’s a pro himself, thinks he could beat up (dating myself, because I haven’t followed boxing in a long time, and I’ve never followed MMA) Roberto Duran, or Sugar Ray Leonard. Not even when they were welterweights (147 pounds or less). It’s no surprise at all that a 170 pound pro MMA fighter could beat a 250 pound football player. In fact, that’s close to the respective weights of Jack Dempsey and Jess Willard, when Dempsey beat the crap out of him. And Willard was the world champion. Nice well poisoning with the “neckbeard” comments, by the way. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regular-looking-women-who-can-beat-up-much-larger-men/656096/64 "2013-04-21T04:53:17Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I still remember the UFC fight between Paul Varelans and and Marco Ruas. Ruas is like half his size. Varelans just followed him around and Ruas just kept kicking the leg, kicking the leg, kicking the leg. Until Varelans finally went down on one knee. Guess who was the bigger guy then? > > Sure, the big guy will usually beat the little guy, that’s why even UFC instituted weight classes. But watching those early fights with no weight classes, it sure didn’t seem obvious at the time that they were necessary. Varlens was nowhere near as well trained as Ruas. Varlens wasn’t prepared to defend against the kicks and his leg was badly injured before he remembered how to do it. Another example was Tank Abbot against Oleg Taktarov. Taktartov was skilled, Abbot had nothing but size. When Abbot ran out of steam Taktarov choked him out in no time. But those are professional fighters, and at that time it was an immature UFC. Neither Taktarov or Varlens would be able to qualify to fight in modern MMA. These examples using MMA fighters don’t mean much. All MMA fighters are highly skilled now and will always win a fight against anyone untrained. Mississippienne, I call no fair for citing a case with a football player. They are known sitting ducks. They don’t know how to fight, lead with their chins, and are nowhere near as tough as they think they are when you take off the helmet and padding. And then you chose a linebacker on top of all that. Definitely not fair. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regular-looking-women-who-can-beat-up-much-larger-men/656096/65 "2013-04-21T05:01:17Z")
It’s like saying a highly trained MMA fighter couldn’t stop an NFL running back. Well, obviously. Why would expect a football player to do any better at MMA? ---
**Author:** ![splatterpunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3be4f8/32.png) [@splatterpunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/splatterpunk)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regular-looking-women-who-can-beat-up-much-larger-men/656096/66 "2013-04-21T05:25:01Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > Look again. He even lifts with his legs. You can prove me wrong if you can show me that this was a fight, and not an exhibition. Not only that, he obviously tumbles. That’s not her throwing him - he’s throwing himself. Obviously. ---
**Author:** ![ethelbert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/958977/32.png) [@ethelbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ethelbert)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regular-looking-women-who-can-beat-up-much-larger-men/656096/67 "2013-04-21T14:42:28Z")
Somebody once told me that they evaluate potential opponents by looking at their wrists. The larger the wrist, the harder they can strike. He said he would not hesitate to fight me. I know this is true for me. Even with some modest training, it is very difficult for me to deliver the kind of blow that would do any damage to a full grown man (I am 6’ 200 lbs). The only exception to this is the sucker punch, after which I would turn tail and run. Mind you, I enjoy seeing Scarlett Johanssen or Lucy Liu beat the crap out of men, but I would not hesitate to get in ring with them (or any fighter with wrists the size of golf club shafts). Brienne of Tarth, on the other hand would make me soil my pants. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regular-looking-women-who-can-beat-up-much-larger-men/656096/68 "2013-04-21T16:31:59Z")
> [@ethelbert](#): > > Somebody once told me that they evaluate potential opponents by looking at their wrists. The larger the wrist, the harder they can strike. There’s some truth to this. When boxers move up in weight class you can see if they’ve really done the work to make the step up by looking at their wrists, elbows, shoulders, and even their knees sometimes. You can put on weight by pumping up your muscles, but that doesn’t necessarily lead to effective strength. If the muscles are out of proportion to the joints then they don’t do that much good. The effectiveness of punching is based on the stiffness of the body running from the fist down to the feet which are planted on the floor. If your joints aren’t strong enough your arm is going to flex on impact decreasing the force of the blow. But it’s not everything. I know who a guy who was an avid tennis player, thin as a reed, no bulging joints, but he had incredibly strong arms. I saw him easily beat several much heavier guys at arm wrestling, so no weakness in the wrists there. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regular-looking-women-who-can-beat-up-much-larger-men/656096/69 "2013-04-21T17:49:12Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I think it’s good to teach women self-defense techniques but I also think that at some level most determined male attackers can overwhelm even a trained woman. I agree. This is why we teach three basic principles: - Avoid - Break free - Escape Our weapons master warns students again and again “I will not teach you how to fight a man, because it will take years of dedication and training, and despite that it’s just not going to work.” So he teaches situational awareness, how to enter/exit a room, how to stand, who to stand near, etc. How to break free, having as little interaction as possible. He does not believe in kicks to the testicles, as he feels that men can protect that much too well on instinct. He does teach a quick strike to the side of the neck while breaking free, if you must. And how to distract, how to attract attention, and how to run the fuck out of there. With me, he has taught how to break free and gain enough distance to draw my gun from my purse - and you need a lot more space and time than you think. > [@](#): > > At 6’5" and well over 200 lbs I’d estimate less than 1% of the women on the planet could beat me in an actual fight. It can be hard to counter someone with extreme size/strength advantages who is willing to just overwhelm you and take a few initial blows in the process. That’s one reason why I’m such an advocate of gun rights, a few shots to center mass and the biggest man is on the ground just the same as the smallest woman. Tasers can easily misdeploy and OC spray can and is overcome by sheer aggression–large caliber bullet wounds are not. I agree completely, which is why I see the anti-gun movement and persons as either being misogynistic or taking a misogynistic argument. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regular-looking-women-who-can-beat-up-much-larger-men/656096/70 "2013-04-21T18:10:56Z")
I think people are missing my point. I’m 5’7". I’m not beating up Martin Hide. He presents a formidable target. I COULD fuck him up so that he’s not going to pursue me, but I’m not going to beat him up. There are universal fragile parts of the human body that are easy to break or cause extreme pain. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regular-looking-women-who-can-beat-up-much-larger-men/656096/71 "2013-04-21T18:44:05Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I think people are missing my point. I’m 5’7". I’m not beating up Martin Hide. He presents a formidable target. I COULD fuck him up so that he’s not going to pursue me, but I’m not going to beat him up. There are universal fragile parts of the human body that are easy to break or cause extreme pain. What if he knocks you out the first time you get close to him? You might fuck up his hand when it breaks your jaw, but that’s hardly a victory, or even holding your own in the fight. You have the same fragile parts that he has, and being larger many of his parts are probably less fragile and harder to reach. I don’t think in the end there is any consistent principle here. There are number of factors involved in fighting ability, size and skill are just two of them. Clearly the person who has the combined advantageous assets wins. ---
**Author:** ![notsoheavyd3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/85e7bf/32.png) [@notsoheavyd3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notsoheavyd3)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regular-looking-women-who-can-beat-up-much-larger-men/656096/72 "2013-04-21T18:44:29Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > It’s like saying a highly trained MMA fighter couldn’t stop an NFL running back. Well, obviously. Why would expect a football player to do any better at MMA? Well you could always bring up the counter point of how well a NCAA champion wrestler and his brother (also a NCAA wrestler) did when they tried to beat up a big ex-pro football player that happened to have a tire iron in a 2 on 1 fight. (The infamous Briscos vs Ernie Ladd fight. This time the fairly elite martial artists got beaten up.) ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regular-looking-women-who-can-beat-up-much-larger-men/656096/73 "2013-04-21T18:56:45Z")
> [@notsoheavyd3](#): > > Well you could always bring up the counter point of how well a NCAA champion wrestler and his brother (also a NCAA wrestler) did when they tried to beat up a big ex-pro football player that happened to have a tire iron in a 2 on 1 fight. (The infamous Briscos vs Ernie Ladd fight. This time the fairly elite martial artists got beaten up.) I’m willing to concede that the person with a tire iron has an advantage over the person who doesn’t. It is a controversial point though. You should open another thread to see if people think they can beat up a football player with a tire iron. There must be plenty of people who say having a weapon is no advantage in a fight. And pose the question in the setting of professional wrestling, that will make it easier to resolve. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regular-looking-women-who-can-beat-up-much-larger-men/656096/74 "2013-04-21T19:10:41Z")
> [@Mississippienne](#): > > **Martin Hyde** , there are many, many confirmed cases of people (yes, even pathetic, weak women! It’s true!) subduing attackers with martial arts or sometimes just plain ol’ rage. I always bring up the famous streetfight that was caught on tape between Rashad Bobino and Roger Huerta. As always, I would like to state that I am very aware that Huerta is not a girl, thank you very much whatever neckbeard out there is about to hit ‘submit reply’ to correct me. But that ‘matchup’ is pretty much exactly what people always debate in these threads – a much bigger, heavier opponent against a smaller, but skilled opponent. Rashad Bobino is a Texas Longhorns linebacker who is 5’11 and weighs 250 lbs. Roger Huerta is several inches shorter and only about 170 lbs, and a respectable but hardly legendary MMA fighter. And Huerta laid out Bobino so fucking fast that I bet Bobino starts twitching and has flashbacks anytime he sees a tiny Mexican. You’re comparing a small woman vs large man matchup as somehow kinda, sorta being equivalent to Huerta a “tiny” [5’ 9" 170 wall of MMA muscle](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-eTphNtZqmmk/TuMD8g9b0PI/AAAAAAAAAsY/5WhWvMxNk2U/s1600/slide-roger-huerta.jpg) vs Bobino a “larger man” of the [same 5’ 9" height](http://recruiting.scout.com/a.z?s=73&p=8&c=1&nid=751261)who has 50 lbs on him? Ok… ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regular-looking-women-who-can-beat-up-much-larger-men/656096/75 "2013-04-21T19:18:01Z")
> [@Mississippienne](#): > > And there it is again! I’m going to start taking bets on how quickly some variation on the phrase “most fights go to the ground” crops up in any future thread that has anything to do with fighting. It’s like an SDMB thread can’t contain the words “fight”, “punch”, or “kick” without that phrase showing up. That’s cause it’s true. Have you ever watched the UFC? ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regular-looking-women-who-can-beat-up-much-larger-men/656096/76 "2013-04-21T19:30:59Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I’m willing to concede that the person with a tire iron has an advantage over the person who doesn’t. It is a controversial point though. You should open another thread to see if people think they can beat up a football player with a tire iron. There must be plenty of people who say having a weapon is no advantage in a fight. And pose the question in the setting of professional wrestling, that will make it easier to resolve. I’d say 2 vs 1 is also a bit of an advantage. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regular-looking-women-who-can-beat-up-much-larger-men/656096/77 "2013-04-21T19:56:38Z")
I am a rather small guy myself but due to my experience in college wrestling I feel confident I can handle my own against mostly anyone. With that being said, there is something to say for pure size. I’ve wrestled guys much larger and stronger than myself who whooped on me even though they had no formal experience. It’s my opinion that, speed + position = force. That’s going to be the most important aspect in a fight. If you can position a person much larger than yourself in a way that’s largely indefensible, you can win. It’s about having situational awareness. For example, stuffing someone between a couch and a wall with no room to maneuver. Oh, and those high flying attacks do happen, but they are rare and relatively useless in an actual fight. Case in point, [The Flying Squirrel](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oW8Mf3IL4zA) ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regular-looking-women-who-can-beat-up-much-larger-men/656096/78 "2013-04-21T20:27:34Z")
This probably would not be done for safety reasons today, but when I was in 8th grade I wrestled with a guy was in the 135 lb weight class who was basically considered a prodigy even then. He went on to eventually get up to I think 155 in HS and from 7th to 12th grade he never lost a single match, won every tournament he was ever in, etc. Well one meet against another school there was a really big guy who was near the maximum weight in the heavyweight class on the other team. We only had one heavyweight and he’d already wrestled another heavyweight from the other team, so the really big guy on the other team who wasn’t really very good was left with no one to wrestle. The coaches talked it over and let our 135 lb guy wrestle the big heavyweight basically just for kicks. Note the heavyweight in question was in 9th grade (my Junior high ran 7-9) and probably weighed 265+ pounds, he was very fat. Anyway, the 135 lb guy on our team beat him like a dog. The big fat kid just didn’t have a chance, he was too slow and didn’t know how to use his weight, and got scored on again and again until it was over. So it just reiterates, no one believes size can never be overcame–but size is a natural advantage and it will be decisive in many situations. You don’t even need to know anything about human fighting but just animal fighting in general. In most of the animal kingdom the bigger male wins fights, not always, but it’s a good strategy for betting if you wanted to bet on who’d win a dominance fight between two gorillas or two lions. ---
**Author:** ![colander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@colander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colander)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regular-looking-women-who-can-beat-up-much-larger-men/656096/79 "2013-04-21T20:37:14Z")
[quote=“panaccione, post:77, topic:656096”] It’s my opinion that, speed + position = force. [QUOTE] Teach the controversy! ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2013, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regular-looking-women-who-can-beat-up-much-larger-men/656096/80 "2013-04-21T21:56:16Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > This probably would not be done for safety reasons today, but when I was in 8th grade I wrestled with a guy was in the 135 lb weight class who was basically considered a prodigy even then. He went on to eventually get up to I think 155 in HS and from 7th to 12th grade he never lost a single match, won every tournament he was ever in, etc. > > Well one meet against another school there was a really big guy who was near the maximum weight in the heavyweight class on the other team. We only had one heavyweight and he’d already wrestled another heavyweight from the other team, so the really big guy on the other team who wasn’t really very good was left with no one to wrestle. > > The coaches talked it over and let our 135 lb guy wrestle the big heavyweight basically just for kicks. Note the heavyweight in question was in 9th grade (my Junior high ran 7-9) and probably weighed 265+ pounds, he was very fat. Anyway, the 135 lb guy on our team beat him like a dog. The big fat kid just didn’t have a chance, he was too slow and didn’t know how to use his weight, and got scored on again and again until it was over. > > So it just reiterates, no one believes size can never be overcame–but size is a natural advantage and it will be decisive in many situations. You don’t even need to know anything about human fighting but just animal fighting in general. In most of the animal kingdom the bigger male wins fights, not always, but it’s a good strategy for betting if you wanted to bet on who’d win a dominance fight between two gorillas or two lions. Gable? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regular-looking-women-who-can-beat-up-much-larger-men/656096.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/regular-looking-women-who-can-beat-up-much-larger-men/656096.md?page=5)