# Rehabilitating criminals **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 12, 2017, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rehabilitating-criminals/786453 "2017-05-12T15:37:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rehabilitating-criminals/786453/1 "2017-05-12T15:37:19Z")
So one thing that the criminal justice system attempts to do for criminals is teach them some legitimate skills so that they can have honest work when they leave prison. My mother, for example, would go to the local prison and teach reading to the prisoners. One problem the inmates suffer, however, is that few employers are interested in hiring those with criminal convictions. It seems to me that a good solution would be to teach them entrepreneur skills and then lend them money when they get out. This would allow them to start a business thus not requiring them to convince an employer that they’ve changed and gives them real options and grow the economy to boot. Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rehabilitating-criminals/786453/2 "2017-05-12T15:39:35Z")
It is a good idea. But stigma is not the only barrier. Many professions–even things like barbering or HVAC repair–require an occupational license that will be denied because of a criminal record. But it’s worth doing, alongside other reforms. One good idea is to provide subsidies and insurance to employers who hire people with criminal records. It cost a fraction of the price of putting someone in prison to give employers incentive to hire them, and employment is the single biggest factor determining recidivism. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rehabilitating-criminals/786453/3 "2017-05-12T15:40:35Z")
If you can’t convince people that criminals are a good risk to hire, how do you expect to convince them that criminals are a good risk to lend money to so they can run their own business? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rehabilitating-criminals/786453/4 "2017-05-12T15:44:37Z")
Why waste money on rehabilitation, when we can waste twice as much money paying the private prison industry? Edited to add: [Why your rehabilitation plan will go the way of most others.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/04/28/how-for-profit-prisons-have-become-the-biggest-lobby-no-one-is-talking-about/?utm_term=.6fe3c4c9ec30) ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rehabilitating-criminals/786453/5 "2017-05-12T15:45:03Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > If you can’t convince people that criminals are a good risk to hire, how do you expect to convince them that criminals are a good risk to lend money to so they can run their own business? Even if you just give them money it is far cheaper than incarceration. Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rehabilitating-criminals/786453/6 "2017-05-12T15:47:21Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > It is a good idea. But stigma is not the only barrier. Many professions–even things like barbering or HVAC repair–require an occupational license that will be denied because of a criminal record. > > But it’s worth doing, alongside other reforms. One good idea is to provide subsidies and insurance to employers who hire people with criminal records. It cost a fraction of the price of putting someone in prison to give employers incentive to hire them, and employment is the single biggest factor determining recidivism. So those skills that require criminal background checks aren’t the skills you teach. Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rehabilitating-criminals/786453/7 "2017-05-12T15:52:47Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > So those skills that require criminal background checks aren’t the skills you teach. In many places, occupational licensing covers a huge swath of the kind of skills you can learn in prison without an advanced degree and expect to get a job on your own or with the kind of place that would hire you. Home health, cosmetology, child care, trades…that’s basically the market for these guys and licensing schemes keep them out. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rehabilitating-criminals/786453/8 "2017-05-12T16:05:01Z")
Over time, opinion has vacillated WRT to value of rehabilitation vs punishment in incarceration. IMO, there is far more talk of rehabilitation, than actual efforts in that direction. It is not only the failure to teach needed work (and social) skills while incarcerated, but also the continuing hurdles AFTER they ostensibly have paid their debt to society. Like someone mentioned upthread, no one makes money off of rehabbing prisoners. But folk do profit from recidivism. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rehabilitating-criminals/786453/9 "2017-05-12T16:06:44Z")
Actually, my barber learned barbering in prison. When he got out he made use of a program to get a loan, lease a building, equip his shop, and start working. He is a success story. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rehabilitating-criminals/786453/10 "2017-05-12T16:28:52Z")
Seems like all you need to do is put rehabilitation in their contracts and offer bonuses for each year a criminal stays out of prison upon release and you would magically get private prisions very interested in finding the best possible rehabilitation programs. Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rehabilitating-criminals/786453/11 "2017-05-12T16:34:20Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > Seems like all you need to do is put rehabilitation in their contracts and offer bonuses for each year a criminal stays out of prison upon release and you would magically get private prisions very interested in finding the best possible rehabilitation programs. The bonus would have to equal what they currently get for warehousing prisoners _plus_ the cost of these new rehabilitation programs to make it worth their while. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rehabilitating-criminals/786453/12 "2017-05-12T16:39:04Z")
In my rather limited experience, the US penal system is more about punishment/vengeance and warehousing, rather than any actual rehabilitation. The result seems to be rather counter to the intent; only those people whom are essentially unintential or circumstantial criminals come out the far side wanting to be back on the straight and narrow - Those whom committed crims by intent seem to come out the far side worse than they went in. But - I admit my experience is very limited. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rehabilitating-criminals/786453/13 "2017-05-12T16:40:28Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The bonus would have to equal what they currently get for warehousing prisoners _plus_ the cost of these new rehabilitation programs to make it worth their while. Not really because the prisioner isn’t taking up a bed or beating up your guards. They’re just free money. Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rehabilitating-criminals/786453/14 "2017-05-12T16:41:01Z")
Many states and municipalities have taken to “[banning the box](https://www.backgroundchecks.com/banthebox)” which is the question on many job applications “have you ever been convicted of a crime?” Which typically result in the candidate from even being considered for the position, even an interview. By banning the box, the candidate has an opportunity to tell their story, not necessarily keep their conviction secret, but have a chance to explain to the hiring manager. Who knows, they might be the best candidate for the job. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rehabilitating-criminals/786453/15 "2017-05-12T16:46:33Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > Not really because the prisioner isn’t taking up a bed or beating up your guards. They’re just free money. Their profit is based on scaring people into believing the fact" that we will always need more prisons because rehabilitation and/or parole doesn’t work-anything that would interfere with this business model will at best be ignored and at worst be fought vigorously. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rehabilitating-criminals/786453/16 "2017-05-12T16:48:48Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Many states and municipalities have taken to “[banning the box](https://www.backgroundchecks.com/banthebox)” which is the question on many job applications “have you ever been convicted of a crime?” Which typically result in the candidate from even being considered for the position, even an interview. By banning the box, the candidate has an opportunity to tell their story, not necessarily keep their conviction secret, but have a chance to explain to the hiring manager. Who knows, they might be the best candidate for the job. Unless it also bans them from finding out the same info through background checks, this is just cosmetic patch. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rehabilitating-criminals/786453/17 "2017-05-12T16:49:27Z")
> [@Tranquilis](#): > > In my rather limited experience, the US penal system is more about punishment/vengeance and warehousing, rather than any actual rehabilitation. > > The result seems to be rather counter to the intent; only those people whom are essentially unintential or circumstantial criminals come out the far side wanting to be back on the straight and narrow - Those whom committed crims by intent seem to come out the far side worse than they went in. > > But - I admit my experience is very limited. No offense but, yes, your experience is clearly limited. My experience on this particular issue, on the other hand, is vast. So I can cite myself when I say that you’re wrong. Rehabilitation is a huge and very central issue in the American penal system. Massive amounts of money and time are spent on rehabilitation. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rehabilitating-criminals/786453/18 "2017-05-12T16:54:20Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Unless it also bans them from finding out the same info through background checks, this is just cosmetic patch. Background checks are not done normally with everyone that fills out an application. They are normally done much later in the stage of the process. As I said, giving the candidate to explain their situation and disclose the issue of their conviction, makes the background check moot. Most candidates that check that box, never even get a chance to explain their situation. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rehabilitating-criminals/786453/19 "2017-05-12T16:59:02Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Background checks are not done normally with everyone that fills out an application. They are normally done much later in the stage of the process. As I said, giving the candidate to explain their situation and disclose the issue of their conviction, makes the background check moot. Most candidates that check that box, never even get a chance to explain their situation. I can jump on board with this idea, _if_ it can be shown that states that have “banned the box” have hired a higher percentage of former prisoners than before they enacted such legislation. Show me it actually works. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rehabilitating-criminals/786453/20 "2017-05-12T17:13:40Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Massive amounts of money and time are spent on rehabilitation. Well, this is a time when I’m pleased to be wrong. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rehabilitating-criminals/786453.md?page=2)