# Reid Admits No Support For "Assault Weapons" Ban **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 19, 2013, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reid-admits-no-support-for-assault-weapons-ban/653402 "2013-03-19T22:41:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reid-admits-no-support-for-assault-weapons-ban/653402/61 "2013-03-20T15:10:02Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > My point may be found in the OP, and in a number of my posts above: Democrats generally disclaimed an interest in gun control. But when an opportunity arose that appeared to provide increased public support for gun control, they reversed that position. Now that the main thrust from that attempt appears to have failed, I’m asking if they will again try to claim no interest in gun control. Interest? Yes. Gun control? No. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reid-admits-no-support-for-assault-weapons-ban/653402/62 "2013-03-20T15:14:00Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Who are these Democrats, who speak for us, generally? And since when is the AWB the main thrust of gun control? Yes, Fear – the sky is blue. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reid-admits-no-support-for-assault-weapons-ban/653402/63 "2013-03-20T15:14:30Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > My point may be found in the OP, and in a number of my posts above: Democrats generally… Well, go ahead and prove that they “generally” do whatever it is you are claiming they do. That is, show that a clear majority do this. So far, we haven’t seen that. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reid-admits-no-support-for-assault-weapons-ban/653402/64 "2013-03-20T15:21:02Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Well, go ahead and prove that they “generally” do whatever it is you are claiming they do. That is, show that a clear majority do this. So far, we haven’t seen that. John, if you can honestly say that you didn’t see this message in a variety of ways, from a variety of sources, over the past dozen years or so, then I don’t know how I could prove it, short of commissioning some kind of a study wherein a team of researchers pored over publications, assigned values from 1 to 10 to statements made about gun control, and weighted averages to come up with an index. So i’d offer this advice: if you don’t see it, this isn’t the thread for you, since you disagree with its premises. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reid-admits-no-support-for-assault-weapons-ban/653402/65 "2013-03-20T15:21:14Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > My point may be found in the OP, and in a number of my posts above: Democrats generally disclaimed an interest in gun control. But when an opportunity arose that appeared to provide increased public support for gun control, they reversed that position. Now that the main thrust from that attempt appears to have failed, I’m asking if they will again try to claim no interest in gun control. As I made clear already, you are using the phrase “interested in” to mean two different things: “would like to see in an ideal world, but not politically possible under current circumstances,” and “actively working to forge some kind of legislation.” Criticize all you want, but it isn’t contradictory, hypocritical, or flip-flopping, as you are trying to suggest. ETA: Perhaps a few Dems did tacitly let some voters think their minds were truly changed on this for good, and that letting this error lie was politically expedient. Okay, that’s a valid, if mild, criticism. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reid-admits-no-support-for-assault-weapons-ban/653402/66 "2013-03-20T15:29:51Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > John, if you can honestly say that you didn’t see this message in a variety of ways, from a variety of sources, over the past dozen years or so, then I don’t know how I could prove it, short of commissioning some kind of a study wherein a team of researchers pored over publications, assigned values from 1 to 10 to statements made about gun control, and weighted averages to come up with an index. > > So i’d offer this advice: if you don’t see it, this isn’t the thread for you, since you disagree with its premises. Nice dodge. Please note that there are quite a few people asking the exact same question. You are asking us to accept your statement at face value. I don’t. There are a finite number of Democratic Senators. How many are you aware of who made this switch? Specifically about assault weapons. It’s not even clear if Webb did so, since your link doesn’t work. It’s not a Herculean task. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reid-admits-no-support-for-assault-weapons-ban/653402/67 "2013-03-20T15:32:38Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > As I made clear already, you are using the phrase “interested in” to mean two different things: “would like to see in an ideal world, but not politically possible under current circumstances,” and “actively working to forge some kind of legislation.” > > Criticize all you want, but it isn’t contradictory, hypocritical, or flip-flopping, as you are trying to suggest. "You can vote for me without worrying I will support gun control legislation – while I’d like to, and would in a heartbeat if I thought I could, it’s not politically possible. I don’t really remember any candidate with that message. So my main question remains: having donned sheeps’ skins to safely infiltrade the flock of sheep, the wolves have made their move – and it didn’t work. My question: will they don sheeps’ skins again? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reid-admits-no-support-for-assault-weapons-ban/653402/68 "2013-03-20T15:34:27Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Nice dodge. Please note that there are quite a few people asking the exact same question. > > You are asking us to accept your statement at face value. I don’t. There are a finite number of Democratic Senators. How many are you aware of who made this switch? Specifically about assault weapons. It’s not even clear if Webb did so, since your link doesn’t work. It’s not a Herculean task. Sure it is. For good reason, senators’ web sites don’t archive past claims. But I know, and you do too, that in 2006, very few senators emphasized any interest in gun control on their web pages. But I’m not going to go get links for a hundred web pages, on an issue you know perfectly well to be true, because it takes you ten seconds to ask that question and me a day of research to answer it. And if i did, it would be met with a shrug and an “Ok, so what?” response. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reid-admits-no-support-for-assault-weapons-ban/653402/69 "2013-03-20T15:39:07Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So my main question remains: having donned sheeps’ skins to safely infiltrade the flock of sheep, the wolves have made their move – and it didn’t work. My question: will they don sheeps’ skins again? Are you still beating your wife, **Bricker**? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reid-admits-no-support-for-assault-weapons-ban/653402/70 "2013-03-20T15:43:15Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Are you still beating your wife, **Bricker**? Sure. She keeps trying for the Longest Road and not building settlements close to wood and brick hexes early in the game. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reid-admits-no-support-for-assault-weapons-ban/653402/71 "2013-03-20T15:44:12Z")
Anybody who would reduce their entire political perspective down to the issue of gun regulation is too stupid to make their own oatmeal. \* Instant\* oatmeal. We of the Keep the Goddam Things If They Mean That Much To You Caucus have plenty of reasons to vote against Republicans: voting rights issue, marriage equality issues, reproductive rights issues, the list goes on. It may be that gun regulation is just a flash in the brain pan issue, it will fade as memory of the horror fades. Unless it happens again. If God Almighty were to offer me that deal, that this sort of thing will never happen again if I just turn my back on gun control issues, it will all settle down and never be roused up again by another Newtown, Aurora or Columbine…I’d take it in a heartbeat. So long as it never happens again. But it will. And very likely again, and again. And the ballistophiliac community will look back on these days with warm nostalgia, fondly remember when they still had enough power to sweep back the tide, one more time. Still would like a list of all those Democrats firmly and publicly committed to “erase” the 2nd Amendment. Just the top hundred or so, Counselor, I know you’re a very busy man. Or you could walk that one back with a display of semantic gymnastics. Or pretend you never actually said it. Whatever. Kinda know already what to expect. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reid-admits-no-support-for-assault-weapons-ban/653402/72 "2013-03-20T15:47:57Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Since that was never my point, I don’t see why the refutation of it would serve to show that I have no point. But there are plenty of examples of legislators who strongly sold the idea, without making it a notarized oath. And Webb strongly sold the idea again when he ran for re-election in 2012, did he? Oh, wait - he _didn’t run_ for re-election. Anyway, what I’m hearing you say, counselor, is that once a party sells itself as having a reliable position on an issue, it really didn’t mean it if it ever changes in the future. With all due respect, that’s freakin’ absurd. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reid-admits-no-support-for-assault-weapons-ban/653402/73 "2013-03-20T15:59:36Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > My point may be found in the OP, and in a number of my posts above: Democrats generally disclaimed an interest in gun control. But when an opportunity arose that appeared to provide increased public support for gun control, they reversed that position. Now that the main thrust from that attempt appears to have failed, I’m asking if they will again try to claim no interest in gun control. You made up the claims in the OP. Show us which Democrats have said they have no interest in gun control and then changed their minds. You’re making a claim that Democrats have reneged on a promise, and you haven’t shown either the promise or the reneging. Quite the opposite actually, you’ve claimed Democrats promised not to enact new gun control laws, and they haven’t. You should be lauding them. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reid-admits-no-support-for-assault-weapons-ban/653402/74 "2013-03-20T16:05:11Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Keep the personal insults out of this forum. Will do. My apologies for stepping over the line. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reid-admits-no-support-for-assault-weapons-ban/653402/75 "2013-03-20T16:12:00Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So my main question remains: having donned sheeps’ skins to safely infiltrade the flock of sheep Safely?? As I’ve pointed out already, while the ‘infiltrading’ was going on, the pro-gun side was passing hundreds of laws expanding ‘gun rights.’ In your analogy (not that it’s a great analogy to begin with, so if this makes it a bit worse, that’s just life), while the wolves were infiltrating the flock of sheep, the sheep were shearing the wolves. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reid-admits-no-support-for-assault-weapons-ban/653402/76 "2013-03-20T16:23:11Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Sure it is. For good reason, senators’ web sites don’t archive past claims. But I know, and you do too, that in 2006, very few senators emphasized any interest in gun control on their web pages. But I’m not going to go get links for a hundred web pages, on an issue you know perfectly well to be true, because it takes you ten seconds to ask that question and me a day of research to answer it. And if i did, it would be met with a shrug and an “Ok, so what?” response. Well, it _should_ be. Because there’s a big difference between a failure to emphasize a particular issue, and even an implied message of intent to let that issue continue to lie dormant in the future. And 2006, in the timescale of politics, was a pretty long time ago. Everyone in Congress has faced the voters at least once since then; House members, four times. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reid-admits-no-support-for-assault-weapons-ban/653402/77 "2013-03-20T16:32:40Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > You made up the claims in the OP. Show us which Democrats have said they have no interest in gun control and then changed their minds. You’re making a claim that Democrats have reneged on a promise, and you haven’t shown either the promise or the reneging. Quite the opposite actually, you’ve claimed Democrats promised not to enact new gun control laws, and they haven’t. You should be lauding them. That’s correct: they haven’t. But not for their own lack of trying. As the article linked in the OP makes clear. I don’t laud someone for not committing murder when he shoves an enemy onto the tracks in front of an approaching train and the train manages to stop in time. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reid-admits-no-support-for-assault-weapons-ban/653402/78 "2013-03-20T16:35:57Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t laud someone for not committing murder when he shoves an enemy onto the tracks in front of an approaching train and the train manages to stop in time. But you don’t get to accuse them of also driving the train. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reid-admits-no-support-for-assault-weapons-ban/653402/79 "2013-03-20T16:44:32Z")
You don’t speak Brickerese? Here, let me help. When the title of the thread reads “Reid Admits No Support…” that doesn’t mean “no support” as in a total absence of support, it means insufficient support. Not the same thing in your dictionary and mine, but he has his own. Similarly, if Senator Throckmorton (D) says he favors reasonable gun regulation, he has firmly and publicly declared his intention to “erase the 2nd Amendment”. Because they are precisely the same thing. And if someone asks Senator Throckmorton (D) if he favors banning Pez dispensers, Nerf guns and Red Ryder BB guns, and he says no, that would be stupid, then he has “reneged” on his commitment, due to the overwhelming popular support for guns, guns and more guns! Its not that complicated, all you need do is take the clear meaning of the words, reach down its throat and grab its asshole, and pull it inside out. And there you have it. Brickerese. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2013, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reid-admits-no-support-for-assault-weapons-ban/653402/80 "2013-03-20T16:46:00Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > That’s correct: they haven’t. But not for their own lack of trying. As the article linked in the OP makes clear. > > I don’t laud someone for not committing murder when he shoves an enemy onto the tracks in front of an approaching train and the train manages to stop in time. Well they haven’t committed murder. I’d figure an attorney would know that. And they didn’t even commit attempted murder if they considered it but didn’t act. But you still haven’t shown where a Democrat promised not shove anyone in front of a train. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reid-admits-no-support-for-assault-weapons-ban/653402.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reid-admits-no-support-for-assault-weapons-ban/653402.md?page=5)