# Reincarnation **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 30, 2003, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reincarnation/221716 "2003-12-30T05:50:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Question](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/ecc23a/32.png) [@Question](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Question)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2004, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reincarnation/221716/81 "2004-01-01T22:32:00Z")
well… i shouldn’t say MY theory… the bible beat me to it … ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2004, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reincarnation/221716/82 "2004-01-01T23:20:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Brutus \* > \*\*You have not provided a ‘cite’; You have provided ‘an advertistment for a book’. Anecodotal stories and vague polls (so fucking what if 97% of N.Americans believe in an afterlife? If 100% believed in invisible pink unicorns, would they then exist?) do _not_ constitute proof in any meaningfull sense of the word. > > Obviously, modern science does not completely understand all aspects of how the brain works. That does not mean that a reasonable person should fill in the blanks with ghost stories and other crap. \*\* Just give you another jolt to think about. If 100% of the people truly believed in invisible pink unicorns then they would exist, created by thought. You create your future, your success or failure, and your world with your thoughs. The brain doesn’t work, it is just an interface for the spirit. [http://ndeweb.com/FAQz23.htm](http://ndeweb.com/FAQz23.htm) Be sure to follow the link on the page above, very scientific. Love ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reincarnation/221716/83 "2004-01-02T00:31:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lekatt \* > \*\*Just give you another jolt to think about. If 100% of the people truly believed in invisible pink unicorns then they would exist, created by thought. You create your future, your success or failure, and your world with your thoughs. \*\* (My “thoughs” or my “thighs?”) Ah. So, poor people deserve to be poor; sick people deserve to be sick, because they created that with their “thoughts” and “spirits?” Slaves brought slavery onto themselves; Jews _wanted_ to be in concentration camps; and Lincoln threw himself in front of that bullet? ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Joe\_Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Random)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reincarnation/221716/84 "2004-01-02T00:34:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lekatt \* > **If 100% of the people truly believed in invisible pink unicorns then they would exist, created by thought.** That makes no sense at all. First of all, there was a time when 100% of the people truly believed that the world was flat. Yet that did not make the world flat. Further, what if 99.999% of the people believe in invisible pink unicorns, but one person doesn’t? Would IPUs exist, or not? If yes, then what is the threshold of people needed to alter reality? If no, then by what mechanism does the universe “know” that 100% of people believe something. And what about possible sentient aliens? Do they have to believe in it too? > [@](#): > > **The brain doesn’t work, it is just an interface for the spirit.** That claim is completely unsubstantiated. I could just as easily claim “The spirit doesn’t work, it’s just an interface for the brain”. However, before _either_ claim is made, one must first demonstrate that the spirit **exists**. ---
**Author:** ![Question](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/ecc23a/32.png) [@Question](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Question)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reincarnation/221716/85 "2004-01-02T00:38:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eve \* > \*\*(My “thoughs” or my “thighs?”) > > Ah. So, poor people deserve to be poor; sick people deserve to be sick, because they created that with their “thoughts” and “spirits?” Slaves brought slavery onto themselves; Jews _wanted_ to be in concentration camps; and Lincoln threw himself in front of that bullet? \*\* we exist in the fourth dimension. we can only control reality within our perception. take a piece of paper and draw a stick-man … contemplate how that stick-man experiences the 3rd dimension and you will understand the limits of our knowledge of the 4th dimension… . . i am an unemployed student. can i legally force James Randi to give me the $1,000,000 that he has promised, according to the bet? i would like to donate $950,000 of it to survivors of the Iranian earthquake. . . everything in moderation 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Joe\_Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Random)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reincarnation/221716/86 "2004-01-02T00:45:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Question \* > **can i legally force James Randi to give me the $1,000,000 that he has promised, according to the bet?** You must first win the bet. So tell us, what paranormal powers are you going to demonstrate in order to claim your $1,000,000? ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reincarnation/221716/87 "2004-01-02T01:04:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Question \* > **we exist in the fourth dimension. we can only control reality within our perception . . . . i am an unemployed student.** I am unsurprised. Come back to us when you’re 40 and have had to hold down a job and haven’t been hepped-up on goofballs all weekend, and tell us what dimension you live in. ---
**Author:** ![Question](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/ecc23a/32.png) [@Question](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Question)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reincarnation/221716/88 "2004-01-02T02:06:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eve \* > \*\*I am unsurprised. > > Come back to us when you’re 40 and have had to hold down a job and haven’t been hepped-up on goofballs all weekend, and tell us what dimension you live in. \*\* i think that the Iranian children should get the $950,000 and that i should get the $50,000 … . . regardless of whether i personally get any money, it is evil to disagree in this instance because i have promised to donate the vast majority of the winnings to those who are experiencing suffering. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Joe\_Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Random)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reincarnation/221716/89 "2004-01-02T02:27:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Question \* > \*\*regardless of whether i personally get any money, it is evil to disagree in this instance because i have promised to donate the vast majority of the winnings to those who are experiencing suffering. \*\* By that logic, it is evil of you to be an unemployed student when you could get a minimum-wage job flipping burgers and donate all of your earnings to those who are experiencing suffering. So until every penny our of your own pocket goes to helping others, it is hypocritical of you to demand that others do what you will not. Besides which, you have to demonstrate some sort of paranormal power in order to win Randi’s $1 000 000. So I ask again, what paranormal power will you be demonstrating? ---
**Author:** ![Question](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/ecc23a/32.png) [@Question](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Question)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reincarnation/221716/90 "2004-01-02T02:43:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Joe Random \* > \*\*By that logic, it is evil of you to be an unemployed student when you could get a minimum-wage job flipping burgers and donate all of your earnings to those who are experiencing suffering. So until every penny our of your own pocket goes to helping others, it is hypocritical of you to demand that others do what you will not. > > Besides which, you have to demonstrate some sort of paranormal power in order to win Randi’s $1 000 000. So I ask again, what paranormal power will you be demonstrating? \*\* money will buy the things necessary to sustain my physical body. i hope this will be my last incarnation. . . i do not need to demonstrate a ‘paranormal’ power because our mind knows that i am right. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reincarnation/221716/91 "2004-01-02T02:59:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eve \* > \*\*(My “thoughs” or my “thighs?”) > > Ah. So, poor people deserve to be poor; sick people deserve to be sick, because they created that with their “thoughts” and “spirits?” Slaves brought slavery onto themselves; Jews _wanted_ to be in concentration camps; and Lincoln threw himself in front of that bullet? \*\* By gosh, you have it. At least in all the assumptions that are not in evidence that you make. Love ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reincarnation/221716/92 "2004-01-02T03:05:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Joe Random \* > \*\*That makes no sense at all. First of all, there was a time when 100% of the people truly believed that the world was flat. Yet that did not make the world flat. Further, what if 99.999% of the people believe in invisible pink unicorns, but one person doesn’t? Would IPUs exist, or not? If yes, then what is the threshold of people needed to alter reality? If no, then by what mechanism does the universe “know” that 100% of people believe something. And what about possible sentient aliens? Do they have to believe in it too? > > That claim is completely unsubstantiated. I could just as easily claim “The spirit doesn’t work, it’s just an interface for the brain”. > > However, before _either_ claim is made, one must first demonstrate that the spirit **exists**. \*\* How do you know IPU’s don’t exist, if you can’t see them. Is it necessary to run into them and fall down? Just though I would add some senseless arguments to those that are already here. Love ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Random](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Joe\_Random](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Random)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reincarnation/221716/93 "2004-01-02T03:16:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Question \* > **money will buy the things necessary to sustain my physical body. i hope this will be my last incarnation.** By not sustaining your physical body, you could find out if your hopes will be fulfilled that much faster, though. > [@](#): > > \*\*i do not need to demonstrate a ‘paranormal’ power because our mind knows that i am right. \*\* By that line of reasoning, I don’t have to demonstrate that you’re completely loony because “our” mind knows that I am right. Seriously, there is no “our mind”. Really, I am very tempted to label you as a troll, but I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that your recent psychedelic experience has temporarily robbed you of your abilities of logic and reason (and rational discourse). ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reincarnation/221716/94 "2004-01-02T03:17:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Question \* > \*\*i’ve slept… let me try to explain this… > > - reality is non-local, seperate from time > - our perception of time is the wavefunction collapsing > - before the wavefunction collapses “what is” is a quantum state > - long-term memories are determined by synaptic morphology > \*\* Many moons ago (or is it many years from now? sometimes it’s hard to tell if I’m remembering the past or the future- ooh, look at my hand… ever noticed how it turns into a cobra sometimes?) I walked into a door and had an epiphany about the relativity of reality. I was on my patio taking some burgers off the grill, wasn’t wearing my glasses, didn’t realize that my roommate had closed the sliding glass door into the dining room and BAM! there was a one schnozz pile-up. At the time I was in a New Age/Richard Bachmann phase (though I never intentionally did psychadelics- the time I did do them was also the time I learned never to leave my drink unattended at a party with hippies) and was convinced in the “reality is what we perceive it to be and if we perceive it differently then it changes accordingly”. As I was putting some ice on my nose, though, it occurred to me: I had absolutely **NO DOUBT** that the door was open, all of the information that was formulated in my brain told me “_there be empty space here_” and my faith and my knowledge and my perceptions were all focused on this “open door” theory, yet evidently the perceived existence of the door was stronger than my own perception because when I continued walking I didn’t magically step through it but rather collided with it. It was enough proof to me that **THIS** is the reality that matters. (Yeah yeah yeah, I know, _Tao of Physics_ and_Dancing Wu Li Masters_ and all that, but we don’t live on the subatomic level, as our unenlightened employers and creditors would be the first to remind us.) I used to believe in reincarnation and still believe in a sorta kinda pre-existence/timewarp thing that I can’t really describe clearly and have no desire to proselytize about (it doesn’t inform my moral code whether it exists or not), but ultimately decided “Who cares?” for several reasons, among them: 1- Isn’t the basic point of all major religions and moral codes, whether they believe in one life or billions, essentially “Be nice to others” with all the rest being commentary? This doesn’t really change whether all of existence (including or excluding my past lives) was zapped into being three seconds ago or whether we live in a static universe. 2- Like many many other believers in reincarnation, I had some absolutely incorrect and mistaken assumptions about hypnosis; people can and do lie/fabricate/imagine things under hypnosis (remember the “false memory” recalls during the Satanic Panic phenomena a few years ago?) 3- In addition to the “why was everybody Cleopatra?” querie I noticed that the most common past life “memories” (even from those who remembered lives as commoners) were from the times and places in history that have been the most recorded through novels, movies and fantasy (Civil War, ancient Egypt, Rome, Atlantis, etc.). Rarely do people recall living as a subsistence level Asian peasant who lives an entire short, nasty and brutal life without ever even catching a glimpse of royalty or riches, yet these people are far more a plurality in history than Confederate soldiers (whose names usually don’t match any known records) or priests of Isis. Basically, whyever we’re here, here we are and here is what we’re obviously meant to contend with. Be sweet and just be. **Daughter of Sam?** Aside: Speaking of reincarnation and altered brains, I was in a B.DALTON the other day looking through the discount bin and noticed the book [Out on a Leash: Exploring the Nature of Reality and Love](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0743485068/qid=1073013273//ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i0_xgl14/002-8233950-0472821?v=glance&s=books&n=507846). This book marks her official graduation from overindulged Hollywood flake-a-zoid to barking mad lunatic. I noticed the book because I live with a rat terrier and there’s a rat terrier on the cover, which is only fitting because the dog is the book’s “co-author”. Her name is Terry, she communicates with MacLaine (who she refers to as “my Mistress Mother”) in “humanimal”, and among other revelations Terry happens to be the reincarnation of the god Anubis (for which MacLaine offers photographic “proof”, incidentally- I’ve actually joked about my little ratdogs Anubian ears and shadow before, but I always thought it was just a breed characteristic) and Shirley, then a “minor princess”, was his priestess. The dog also knows that she is going to live for 18 years and is here to help her Mistress Mother make the transition into the next realm of being. (Man of La Mancha showtune quote moment: “I can hear the cuckoo singing in the cuckooberry tree…”) Either MacLaine is officially bonkers now, or else she had one book left on her contract and totally forgot about it until 5 p.m. the night before the manuscript was due and this was the best she could dash off at the last minute. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reincarnation/221716/95 "2004-01-02T04:37:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Question \* > \*\*remember to keep in mind the number 7… this is the 77th post to this thread and someone out there is the 777 person to view it… \*\* And 111 views before that you have 666, which must mean that the devil is permeating every part of this thread. Repent and be saved. ---
**Author:** ![Question](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/ecc23a/32.png) [@Question](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Question)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reincarnation/221716/96 "2004-01-02T04:41:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Airman Doors, USAF \* > \*\*And 111 views before that you have 666, which must mean that the devil is permeating every part of this thread. > > Repent and be saved. \*\* without a doubt he is with us… the devil is mirth, fire and logic … look to the left and you will see him … ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reincarnation/221716/97 "2004-01-02T04:49:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Question \* > \*\*without a doubt he is with us… > > the devil is mirth, fire and logic … look to the left and you will see him … \*\* Hah! I always knew that Satan was a Leftist! ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reincarnation/221716/98 "2004-01-02T04:56:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Question \* > it was too real or detailed for my mind to create it from just my accumulated memories… You need to have a little more faith in the workings of your internal subsystems. If you watch them closely, they’ll frequently do things that will astonish you; and that’s without throwing hallucinogens into the mix. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reincarnation/221716/99 "2004-01-02T05:07:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Question \* > \*\*without a doubt he is with us… > > the devil is mirth, fire and logic … look to the left and you will see him … \*\* I used to love **Mirth, Fire & Logic** , though I thought their later stuff paled next to that of **Peaches & Herb**. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2004, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reincarnation/221716/100 "2004-01-02T05:08:53Z")
PS- When I look to the left I see my 12 week old terrier-mix playing with his chew toys. He’s going through a teething phase and is definitely high spirited, but I resent his being called “the Devil”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reincarnation/221716.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reincarnation/221716.md?page=6)